CHS Release 1.02

[Andrew Brown]

ORIGINAL: gunner333

Gash! I want it right now. I didnt know that Manchukou Empire had 100k men army and even its own fleet and airforces.
It will be really nice addition for the struggling Empire of the Rising Sun. I think its too big froces to left them out of CHS.
And what modders think about it?

My opinion is that Thai and Manchukuo forces would only be added if they served, in combat, outside of their home states. I have no idea whether any components of these forces did so.

Andrew

[Sardaukar]

What is the Japanese pilot replacement rate in CHS 1.02 ??

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

What is the Japanese pilot replacement rate in CHS 1.02 ??

Navy 15, Army 30.

Japanese Pilot replacement has been the subject of extended debate. This is what we came up with. Please let's not go into another round of heated debate.

[Oleg Mastruko]

ORIGINAL: Tomo

How about to add Manchukuo navy?[:)]

Manchukuo navy&army
http://www.down.ne.jp/ish/ijn/fohist/Jingcha.html
http://www.horae.dti.ne.jp/~fuwe1a/newpage417.html
http://members.at.infoseek.co.jp/ijan/index.htm

http://babelfish.altavista.com/

Dream on... this is CHS after all. You'll see US, UK, maybe Russian and Dutch additions (in that order) before anything else (US changes, improvements and additions making grand total of 80% of all changes).

<ducks and runs away [:D]>

O.

[paladin333]

You mean that CHS stands for "Chase and Harras japanese Side"? If so looks like your are right. [:D]

[Sardaukar]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

Navy 15, Army 30.

Japanese Pilot replacement has been the subject of extended debate. This is what we came up with. Please let's not go into another round of heated debate.

Hell no !! I like those figures ! [8D]

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko

Dream on... this is CHS after all. You'll see US, UK, maybe Russian and Dutch additions (in that order) before anything else (US changes, improvements and additions making grand total of 80% of all changes).

<ducks and runs away [:D]>

O.

Why don't you just quit bitching and write your own scenario?

[akdreemer]

ORIGINAL: Lemurs!

It is not needed. These are divisional combat engineer regiments not construction units. Honestly, play a game into '43 and see if you think the allies have too little engineering capability.
In game the Allies can build bases twice as quick as they did historically.

I have been removing engineer vehicles from several allied units to try to get the building to more realistic speeds. I am not going to add any because of this.

Mike

I keep forgetting this it seems, and you are right, base construction is fast. Maybe what is needed is each level of base construction to get progressively more expensive in the expenditure of supplies, as well as time, even more than what the games has now... I have not played a game to 43 in a long time, with all of the modding going on and false starts. Well maybe I need to play more and quit nitpicking.. [:D]

[Lemurs!]

The most organized part of the Manchukuo army is in the game but people like Oleg have their mouth open so wide they can not see the OOB in the game.

The Manchu navy is not in game because it consisted of one destroyer that was about 30 years old. It had no ASW capability, short range, and very weak armament. Having said that we may add it.
The rest of the fleet consisted of 16 fishing boats with a max speed of 9 knots, 1000 mile range tops, 1-3" gun and 1 or 2 MGs.
No ASW capability.
That is the Manchukuo 'fleet'. Have fun.

I am amazed that twits like Oleg can snidely comment that 'we at CHS don't touch these minor forces because all we care about is the big countries'.
That would be because the stuff that still needs to be fixed for the big countries actually is important and will affect a game in a major way... as opposed to the Manchu 'fleet'.
Like a correct British/Empire OOB.... A fixed China... that sort of minor piffle.

Thai forces had about as much interest in fighting for Japan as they had in Dec '41 in fighting against Japan.

We are adding the Indian national army and this is already being worked on as part of our revamp of India/Empire.

If we added more Manchukuo ground forces then people could transfer them to China, India or anywhere else. That would be fun wouldn't it?[:)] There is no way to really nail them down without doing stupid things.
These forces did not fire one shot until August 9th 1945... not one . They barely fired a shot in the air above the advancing Soviet troops before they surrendered.

Mike

[timtom]

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

My opinion is that Thai and Manchukuo forces would only be added if they served, in combat, outside of their home states. I have no idea whether any components of these forces did so.

Andrew

In Freeboy's game versus Zeta, he was back in Rangoon by March 1944. What with the way logistics and ground combat works, not to mention the complete absence of anything to emulate the effect of the monsoon, one fears that an early collapse of the Japanese position in Burma will be all too common...

Anyone care to venture a guess as to what would've happened if this was the case RL? Would the Brits have invaded Thailand? If so, would the Thais have put up a fight?

[Tomo]

I'm still dreaming on...[:)]
How about to switch Japanese flag on Mancukuo bases to Manchukuo flag?

Manchukuo flag
http://members.at.infoseek.co.jp/ijan/manshu-kokki.htm

Oscar in Thai airforce(with Elephant mark)
http://www.horae.dti.ne.jp/~fuwe1a/imag ... /tai43.jpg

And, other navy& army
http://www.horae.dti.ne.jp/~fuwe1a/newpage415.html

Translation
http://babelfish.altavista.com/

[Andrew Brown]

ORIGINAL: Tomo

I'm still dreaming on...[:)]
How about to switch Japanese flag on Mancukuo bases to Manchukuo flag?

That would be nice but I don't think that it is possible without modifying the game code. I wanted to add a flag for the Free French (Noumea/Society Islands) but couldn't do it.

[testarossa]

Correct me if i'm wrong. Historical start is always the same, right?

Why than PH strike achieves such a pitiful results? I ran it two times and every time there were no torpedo hits and only one BB sunk, the target practice one for 12 VPs.

[jwilkerson]

ORIGINAL: timtom

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

My opinion is that Thai and Manchukuo forces would only be added if they served, in combat, outside of their home states. I have no idea whether any components of these forces did so.

Andrew

In Freeboy's game versus Zeta, he was back in Rangoon by March 1944. What with the way logistics and ground combat works, not to mention the complete absence of anything to emulate the effect of the monsoon, one fears that an early collapse of the Japanese position in Burma will be all too common...

Anyone care to venture a guess as to what would've happened if this was the case RL? Would the Brits have invaded Thailand? If so, would the Thais have put up a fight?

In on game I have going ( CHS ) my IJA "position in Burma" consists of Vicky's Point and Tavoy ( circa July '42 ) ! By the time we reached the Salween - the Chinese were already there diggin' in ! So, monsoon not a factor - though my "postions" haven't "collapsed" yet ! But I doubt "Freeboy versus Zeta" reaching '44 would indicate that was CHS.

[paladin333]

ORIGINAL: Lemurs!

The most organized part of the Manchukuo army is in the game but people like Oleg have their mouth open so wide they can not see the OOB in the game.

Thai forces had about as much interest in fighting for Japan as they had in Dec '41 in fighting against Japan.

If we added more Manchukuo ground forces then people could transfer them to China, India or anywhere else. That would be fun wouldn't it?[:)] There is no way to really nail them down without doing stupid things.
These forces did not fire one shot until August 9th 1945... not one . They barely fired a shot in the air above the advancing Soviet troops before they surrendered.

Mike

Thanks for answer.
As I understand from the links provided by Tomo and also from some googling 80% of Manchukou army was operating in the China. They commited in anti-partizan operations, garrison missions and patroling missions. At 1939 year Manchukou consisted from 5divisions and various regiments, by the end of the war there are were more than 10 divisions. The formations had even armor support like armor cars, armor train cars and old Japanese tanks. And lest but not last soldiers of Manchukou army knew that Chan Kai Shi or Mao Ze Daong boys will torture them to hell if they surrender. For other Chinese they were traitors, so it was low EXP high morale units. I think its pretty large forces to ignore it.
You said that puting this forces on map makes player to do some stupid thing like transfering it to China or even south pacific, but if so why you are puting on map all that Inner India units and so on. Seems same situation for me, players can transfer poor Indian recruit to some god-forgotten-malaria-hell Lunga base.
But anyway its not my mod, and this is just my 2cents nothing more.

[paladin333]

ORIGINAL: timtom

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

My opinion is that Thai and Manchukuo forces would only be added if they served, in combat, outside of their home states. I have no idea whether any components of these forces did so.

Andrew

In Freeboy's game versus Zeta, he was back in Rangoon by March 1944. What with the way logistics and ground combat works, not to mention the complete absence of anything to emulate the effect of the monsoon, one fears that an early collapse of the Japanese position in Burma will be all too common...

Anyone care to venture a guess as to what would've happened if this was the case RL? Would the Brits have invaded Thailand? If so, would the Thais have put up a fight?

In 1942 Japanese officaily transfered ocupation rights of Burma to Thai, so right after war there was big tension between Thai and England(which wanted some Thai's land as contribution for the ocupation,) only American diplomatic intervention stopped war between Thai and England.

[timtom]

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson
In on game I have going ( CHS ) my IJA "position in Burma" consists of Vicky's Point and Tavoy ( circa July '42 ) ! By the time we reached the Salween - the Chinese were already there diggin' in ! So, monsoon not a factor - though my "postions" haven't "collapsed" yet ! But I doubt "Freeboy versus Zeta" reaching '44 would indicate that was CHS.

I really hope you're right, Joe. By 01/01/44, SEAC will have received an additional 3 divisions, 10 brigades, 9 armoured battalions, 1 artillery battalion, 1 combat engineer regiment, 1 combat engineer battalion. India command will receive 2 divisions and 2 brigades. Plus 57 squadrons and whatever the Admirality might dein to send your opponent...

Sure got your work cut out for you[:)]

[Lemurs!]

Gunner,
That is why we were so excited to make India a restricted command for the new version; hopefully keep Indian divisions out of Lunga!

You probably already know this, but just for the sake of newbies, i am going to describe Japanese army command on the mainland.

There were 3 zones, Manchukuo, Kwantung, and Chinese expeditionary.
Kwantung was under the overall command of Manchukuo and consisted of the northern edge of China and the southern strip of Manchuria plus Port Arthur.
There was serious friction and jealousy between the Manchukuo command and Chinese Expeditionary. If Manchukuo soldiers entered Chinese Exp teritory they came under that armies command and thus were never seen again by Manchukuo command.
As far as my research shows no Manchu soldier fought outside of Kwantung or Manchukuo commands which would limit them to the northern strip of China.
And then i find no reference to anything but basic garrison work.

Mike

[keeferon01]

ORIGINAL: testarossa

Correct me if i'm wrong. Historical start is always the same, right?

Why than PH strike achieves such a pitiful results? I ran it two times and every time there were no torpedo hits and only one BB sunk, the target practice one for 12 VPs.

I see this complaint all the time, I just started a new chs game with jap AI and they sunk 3 BB and 1 DM and heavily damaged 5 other BB plus various other damage, I cant see what the problem is

[Oleg Mastruko]

ORIGINAL: Lemurs!

I am amazed that twits like Oleg can snidely comment that 'we at CHS don't touch these minor forces because all we care about is the big countries'.

Not quite.

Consciously or subcosciously all you CHS guys care is *significantly* improving Allied player chances of winning the game and/or simply giving him more toys to play with. You will always find some reason or another not to add, not to care and not to research Manchu forces, not to improve this or that if it would belong to Jap player. Or if you reluctantly add it to your project you'll make sure to "compensate" by adding 10x more stuff to Allied players aresenal.

For you there will always be some important reason why XYth Indian garrison batallion was or is more important to the game than similar Manchu, or Mongolian, or Bose collaborationist unit. Just look at your post(s). You basically said that in black and white!

[Not to mention that Allied player is already in great advantage in this game (by the very design and the nature of the conflict the game is depicting.)]

That is my opinion based on reading this forum and you may well call me "twit" because of that (I am not easy to insult). [:'(]

Oleg