November Update

[ess1]

I fear that pbem capability is secondary for most. Hence Developers (or their "suits") leave this until last I think. Look at COG! I left a pbem game as it was rubbish.
Fortunately we have wargames - HPS, BG etc. that cater for pbem right from inception.

[ktotwf]

Truth be told I couldn't care less about PBEM. Why anyone would want to do that is beyond me!

[Marshall Ellis]

Hey guys:

Just a wuick FYI...

PBEM was very much at the forefront of our design and is considered by Matrix as a primary method of play. I actually covertly played a few PBEM games before I coded and it helped greatly. We recognized right away that there is a large community of EIA PBEM players out there and we designed / coded accordingly!

Thank you

[Marshall Ellis]

Quick FYI that is ...

Thank you

[1LTRambo]

ORIGINAL: Pippin

Well I will say this... The AI is still going through some fixes. Changing it from incompetant to dumb is do-able.... Making it smart, is another thing....

There are some interesting traits that can be adjusted such as agressiveness etc, but for a truely smart AI would require thousands of traits, agreed?

It is refreshing to hear that strides are being made to improve the AI. That tells me the AI has the potential to be a difficult opponent and make the player work for his victory like playing other players.

Therefore, I don't agree with you, jamo262, about the AI always being crap. Also, AI is very important to the game as solitare may be the only way for some to play the game. I posted a request for players for the board game in my area and have only had one person respond. In the 10 or so years that I have owned the board game, I have only played 4 times, and each time was only for a few years into the game.[:@] I WANT TO PLAY A GAME TO COMPLETION!!!!!!
Of course, this means that to achieve my goal of EiA bliss is to play against the computer. I don't have the patience to play PBEM.

And thanks Marshall for your quick FYI. That was much needed.[:)]

[Titi]

herefore, I don't agree with you, jamo262, about the AI always being crap. Also, AI is very important to the game as solitare may be the only way for some to play the game. I posted a request for players for the board game in my area and have only had one person respond. In the 10 or so years that I have owned the board game, I have only played 4 times, and each time was only for a few years into the game. I WANT TO PLAY A GAME TO COMPLETION!!!!!!

I completly disagree here. Still need to encounter a strategy game were the AI give a challenge without "cheating" by playing with different rules.

Don't mind if there is no AI, just replace it by a strong TCP/IP option that will give you instant smart opponent. Strong means that allow team play, replacement of missing player or leasing to a friend if you have a busy schedule.

[1LTRambo]

I agree that TCP/IP needs to be a component of the game, just like PBEM, etc. However, IMHO the game would not be complete without a quality AI that will further set this game apart from others of the type. So if Marshall gives everybody above and beyond their expectations[:)], then he will be hailed in gaming circles for eons to come.[;)]

[Pippin]

I agree an AI is important, even if it is a weak one. Having a computer version of EiA but only being able to play pbem with it would just plain suck. And I don't think you'd get many sales? Besides, for those who need to learn, the AI gives them some fun. They may not learn as FAST when vs a pro, but they certainly won't be put off from losing 99% of the time.

[ktotwf]

Well, AI is extremely important for those who are - sadly enough - not gifted with friends who share an interest in the Napoleonic period. [;)]

[Ursa MAior]

As a game of Grand strategy IMHO a PBEM suits it better than TCP/IP. Not to mention its resemblence on exchanging letters as a way of contemporary communication.

Although I think a GM option should be inserted, which would allow him to make moves for players who cannot or not able (temporaryly) to participate.

[pzgndr]

And I don't think you'd get many sales? Besides, for those who need to learn, the AI gives them some fun.

Bingo. For me, no AI = no buy. If I want to play this or any other game solo without a computer AI, I can just buy the boardgame. If Matrix wants to sell PC games to a broad base of customers, they need to have AI.

[McGuire]

ORIGINAL: pzgndr

Bingo. For me, no AI = no buy. If I want to play this or any other game solo without a computer AI, I can just buy the boardgame. If Matrix wants to sell PC games to a broad base of customers, they need to have AI.

No offense, but I'd like to see you playing with your new board game with people all around the globe!

I'd like to have an AI! I'm the kinda guy who likes playing against my PC (if it isn't cheating - that bloody ....) in my small dark room....

From my point of view the AI ist more than a could (or should) be but it ain't a MUST! If the AI's the only thing that's slowing Matrix down - DUMP IT!

And to the end, I'd like to put another piece of wood on the stake:
Have you Matrix-guys (e.g. Marshal) ever thought about a construction set? Like setting up the scenario as you like it?
A tool like this could be pretty useful for simulating battles, finding the right stategy etc.

Hey... It's just a thought!

[Pippin]

#1 It will ship with an AI, even if it takes longer to tweak. Though, I do not have any authority to say so, I am pretty confident of this.

#2 Yes you can change how you want your corps, fleets, and depots set up. Everything from their positions to factors loaded.

[Titi]

Sadly For me, it's rather no TCP/IP no buy.

EiA was not a game designed to be played by a computer and unless completely changed i can't see any way that a single man (Marsahll or anyone else) can program all in one a land tactical, naval tactical, land strategical, naval strategical and political artificial intelligence. After all the AI able to win at chess against a master is not yet done and it's only a one sided game.
AI won't be a challenge and so i don'T see any fun to even try it.

PBEM is possible currently and i won't spend around 70 CAD to buy a game only for that.

So the only real interest is TCP/IP that will allow me to play against seven opponents having the same free time as me, anywhere in the globe without having the physical limitations of travel and space.

So i'm working ont the virtue of patience knowing that for me the wait will be even longer.[;)]

[Windfire]

Priorities for me are AI followed by PBEM. Very difficult to synch schedules for 7 people for real time play with jobs and peoples family commitments.

[Pippin]

After all the AI able to win at chess against a master is not yet done and it's only a one sided game.

That is interesting, as Kasparov already lost to (Deep Blue?) an IBM machine almost a decade now ago.

[Ursa MAior]

Yep. But chess is unfortunately way less complicated.

Windfire
No offense, but why easier is it to find 7 other people to sit by the computer for almost a whole day? Since given the complexity of the game, I dont think that a campaign with 8 countries will last less than 7-8 hours. If it is a problem to coordinate 7 other people's time to write down and send their turns why is it easier to make them sit down at the same time twice or three times a week or a month? Or you plan to substitute with other players the ones who are not available at the defined time?

[McGuire]

@Pippin:
Maybe I misunderstand you, I didn't refer to my own corps. In the last board game I played France and spend about 6 hours of planning where to set up my troops, what strategy to pull to win against the Prussian and Austrian alliance.
Just to mention, this wasn't the typical first-year-war in the Grand Campain.
A construction set, where I can set up all corps (not only my own) and a usable AI would reduce this time by far! Or I could go through a couple more scenarios in the same time!

@Ursa MAior
I agree that in the scenario you discribe there is no difference! I myself wouldn't play a game with a Russian (Moscow), two Americans (New York, SanFran) and a Chinese either.
But there are 24 time areas on this globe. I can't see a reason why I shouldn't play with some people out of the same and adjecent areas. All from north to south. This way you can play at predefined times, and noone hast to stay up till late or get up in the midst of the night.
And I'd like to see you setting up the game with a couple of people from North Cape (Norway) and Cape Town (South Aftrica)!

But hey: Good Luck!

[Ursa MAior]

I have a PBEM game of Uncommon Valor tm, with an american guy who lives in Japan. My time CET (GMT +1) he is GMT +9 even with 8 hours difference we can play quasi realtime (he makes his moves then I). BUt it is usually for max 2 hours, but I dont see any hinderence of PBEM compared to TCP/IP, au contraire. IMHO it is easier to find 8 players -no matter where they are- who can devote 30 minutes a day to send an email, then to find 8 people at the same time. Maybe for online MMORPGs or FPSs like Cod2 or something wich attract way more people then these gems of the napolenics era.

[Windfire]

ORIGINAL: Ursa MAior

Yep. But chess is unfortunately way less complicated.

Windfire
No offense, but why easier is it to find 7 other people to sit by the computer for almost a whole day? Since given the complexity of the game, I dont think that a campaign with 8 countries will last less than 7-8 hours. If it is a problem to coordinate 7 other people's time to write down and send their turns why is it easier to make them sit down at the same time twice or three times a week or a month? Or you plan to substitute with other players the ones who are not available at the defined time?

I don't totally understand your comment, but versus the AI, I don't need any other players at all so there is no issue. With PBEM, each player executes their turn and mails it to the next player to execute when they have time. It doesn't have to be on a hard set scheduled time of France has to do his turn at 1700 GMT on Monday. A person who may only have an hour or so in the evening should be able to get a turn out (I am one of those people). Based on my schedule and that of alot of the people I deal with, this is easier and more conveineint than trying to sit down for 6-8 hours on a given weekend day. It also leaves those weekends free for other activities (historical miniatures) if I can get enough of the locals together (which isn't easy).