Release 3: In Development.

[Tbird]

I think there are more sim leagues out there as opposed to H2H leagues.

[Scott_WAR]

Oh, I think H2H should wait for now also. Get the other, more fundamental flaws fixed, THEN add H2H.

[mudrick]

ORIGINAL: Tbird

I think there are more sim leagues out there as opposed to H2H leagues.

Well, you're right. But most sport sims are not H2H. When Fbpro first came out in 96 and 97, more H2H league's were popping up than you can count.

I realize this is a sports title. But look at it from a different perspective. Would real time games like Doom, Quake, and other war games make as much money without online play? Not a chance. Would Madden? Advertising has alot to do with it too when it comes to Madden.

I just don't believe H2H is a feature to be compared to other features. It should be part of the game from the start. There will always be a need for improvement, always. So if you want to keep pushing H2H back, it will be pushed back indefinetly. I consider football a real time game.

[Scott_WAR]

Very good point.

I just feel that adding H2H, BEFORE certain things work correctly might be asking for trouble. Why add H2H, and have many new people buy the game becasue of that, only to have those same people upset that certain parts of the game arent quite up to speed yet?
I think it would be better to wait till a few bugs (PAT when the quarter runs out reverting to 4rth and goal from the 2, punting when the quarter ends, etc) which directly impact playing a live game are fixed.

[Tbird]

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

Very good point.

I just feel that adding H2H, BEFORE certain things work correctly might be asking for trouble. Why add H2H, and have many new people buy the game becasue of that, only to have those same people upset that certain parts of the game arent quite up to speed yet?
I think it would be better to wait till a few bugs (PAT when the quarter runs out reverting to 4rth and goal from the 2, punting when the quarter ends, etc) which directly impact playing a live game are fixed.

That's true which is why H2H is a close 2nd for me. I would still rather see the additional sim option so I can sim my single player league instead of playing out every single game CPU vs. CPU. It will save lots of time

[Sonny]

ORIGINAL: Marauders

............................

It's better to fix the hole in the gas tank before adding a supercharger to the engine.

None of the additional features are holes in the gas tank. We're not talking about bugs here, we're talking about new features.

[Deltadog]

I don't know? Getting the sim so that it yields results that are compatable with played games is a flaw in the current game and is similar to fixing the leak in the gas tank!

[Albert18]

I would vote the sim option also.

It has always been my impression that H2H is most important in poorly made or intelluctually light games. The first person shooters wouldn't survive without H2H because of this. You can't match Madden with the arcade crap so you have to cater to the niche market of people who want a more complex coaching/management experience.

[redwolf1]

Just an update on the current vote counts:

[Marauders]

None of the additional features are holes in the gas tank. We're not talking about bugs here, we're talking about new features.

I don't know? Getting the sim so that it yields results that are compatable with played games is a flaw in the current game and is similar to fixing the leak in the gas tank!

That was my point in selecting the sim system change over H2H, graphics, or interface updates at this time.

Maybe I should have said it is better to fix the rough idle on the engine before giving the car a new coat of paint.

[dreamtheatervt]

I vote for a better sim...although at this point it's just beating a dead horse

[Scott_WAR]

LOL, yeah I think its obvious where this is headed. At least the majority of the community is on the same page. Nothing like having half of the community wanting one thing and half wanting another.

[steelcurtain]

Sim option

This is a niche game for simmers, customizers and play/profile makers. Real sims is one of the biggest things missing from madden. Unfortunately game designers, including apparently David, underestimate its value to PC gamers. The good thing is David's willing to listen and improve his game.

[David Winter]

Yep.. looks like that settles it..

Better arcade play is the clear cut winner and that will be the goal for Edition 3.

[David Winter]

[:D]

Okay.. well maybe that was funnier for me than others...

Just an update as to where things are at the moment.

The new PDS is coming along nicely. I think that everyone will benefit from that. I think it's pretty slick so far, but my opinion is fairly biased. Maybe some of the beta testers can give their initial impressions of it. I do think it's a fairly significant update and improvement to the game.

I wish I could give you a date right now as to when you'll get the first public beta's but I do not want to open that can of worms just yet. Please be patient.

A number of people have asked for a new/better depth chart system. This is something I've decided to ~try~ and get into the 3rd update as well.

Something I also wanted to bring up because I guess I wasn't very clear about it on my first post. The new 3D engine I mentioned also means a new and seriously improved physics system. I did mention the rag doll physics for tackles, but it's also a new system for ball physics. Incorporating the new engine into the game is not trivial. But the results would be impressive I think. It would also go a long way to allow people to get better results with systems that don't meet the minimum system specs. Right now, much of the passing problems are the result of two things. 1) incorrect play design, and 2) systems unable to provide a frame rate that doesn't break the physics.

Just to keep that in mind when you're voting, or if you wanted to change your vote.

Thanks for everyone's continued support.

[Marauders]

The new PDS is coming along nicely. I think that everyone will benefit from that. I think it's pretty slick so far, but my opinion is fairly biased. Maybe some of the beta testers can give their initial impressions of it. I do think it's a fairly significant update and improvement to the game.

It is nice.

Something I also wanted to bring up because I guess I wasn't very clear about it on my first post. The new 3D engine I mentioned also means a new and seriously improved physics system. I did mention the rag doll physics for tackles, but it's also a new system for ball physics. Incorporating the new engine into the game is not trivial. But the results would be impressive I think.

I would have brought this up, but beta still has a NDA. Thanks for posting it, David.

I'd like better graphics in the future, and of course, I vote for smaller shoes. [:'(]

[Magnum357]

ORIGINAL: David Winter

Something I also wanted to bring up because I guess I wasn't very clear about it on my first post. The new 3D engine I mentioned also means a new and seriously improved physics system. I did mention the rag doll physics for tackles, but it's also a new system for ball physics. Incorporating the new engine into the game is not trivial. But the results would be impressive I think. It would also go a long way to allow people to get better results with systems that don't meet the minimum system specs. Right now, much of the passing problems are the result of two things. 1) incorrect play design, and 2) systems unable to provide a frame rate that doesn't break the physics.

Wow! Thanks for the info David. I will have too seriously consider this peice of information. My system is low end compared to the minimum specs, and I think it would be neat if the 3D Engine didn't have too rely on Frame Rate too work right. I will have too think about this a while if I want too make a revote.

[Deltadog]

That might change some votes, but as far as I am concerned, the need for sims that are compatable with played games is still number 1. This moves the new 3D engine to 2nd position though.

[Breeze]

ORIGINAL: Deltadog

That might change some votes, but as far as I am concerned, the need for sims that are compatable with played games is still number 1. This moves the new 3D engine to 2nd position though.

Ditto.

[Deft]

I think one thing that should be considered is this isn't a project that some game developer soaked millions into that needs to get the most bang for the buck right away. (I don't know the financials but I don't think Dave has quit his day job and the sales sound good).

So there is no reason to try and expand the target audience. This game is definitely for the simmer who likes to design plays/playbooks and sim multiple seasons. So perfect that and make it work before trying and pick up the H2H market or go after an audience that would be swayed by better arcade features.