RHS Revision 2.42 [minor sensor and command update]

[el cid again]

No change comments this time. Just want to congratulate you on what is looking like a job well done. I like what I am seeing with your scenerio. I will continue to assist in spotting possible or potential problems and post them. I did find the Luckenbach freighters for conversion to repair ships, tenders, etc, but there is only ten of them. I will probably "reconvert" some of the downsized ones for use as conversion ships via the editor when I really start to play this in earnest - 10 is just too low a number for me.

I think you are distorting history. That is, the real ships sent are already in the game - why convert more? Second, the conversion model is way too cheap - it costs you more than a freighter - and a lot of time. [A good repair ship takes 30 months to build after 12 months of lead time getting ready to build it - the entire length of the campaign. You have no clue of this from the game. The machine tools and cranes of a proper repair ship cost many times the value of the ship itself. This rule is "cheating" in every practical sense - if you are an engineer or strategic modeler.]

[el cid again]

PAD:

Thanks for the check. I will examine the data. But note:

1) I entered very few dates. They are inherited in the data set from whoever created the records - thousands of records - which I hardly had time to create myself.

2) Any five digit data in a date field (which should be six digits) is an editor generated error. For reasons unclear, when you copy a record, about 15% of the time it puts a five digit number in the field - possibly a real date minus the first digit (as the first digit is often a 4 or 5 - as in 44 or 45 maybe - without the first digit). I don't always notice this field - as it is not a majority of the time event. Not sure why it does that?

[Did I ever tell you how much I hate this editor? Compared to ANY editor.]


I do not understand what WITPCheck is about or what "checking aircraft structure means"? But the air units assurredly do work. But few groups are of my creation - on the Allied side. I did EVERY Japanese group for CHS - and when they didn't get used (that is a LOT of work) - well you got RHS. I didn't want to waste the work. But it would take 18 months to do all the Allied air groups!

[TulliusDetritus]

RHSCVO 2.43: now Taiwan almost does not have supplies. Numbers are in red. Normal?

[pad152]

el cid again

I recommend you download "WITPCHK" from Spooky's. It's a database checker and will help you find errors when creating a new scenario. What I posted here is only a subset of the errors found by witpchk. The errors I'm seeing will bite players sooner or later.

You may want to sent a copy of RHS to user "Michaelm" and ask him why WITPCHK hangs when running against scenario 60.

[Aterpa]

ORIGINAL: pad152

el cid again

I recommend you download "WITPCHK" from Spooky's. It's a database checker and will help you find errors when creating a new scenario. What I posted here is only a subset of the errors found by witpchk. The errors I'm seeing will bite players sooner or later.

I second that. I just downloaded the tool and checked the scenario. It finds several hundred lines of database errors. For example:
- ships that have different equipment than the class they are based on
- ships that arrive more earlier than their captains
- ships with guns that have no ammunition
- ships with a number of guns but no turrets for them
- pilots that are assigned to airgroup slots that are empty
- units that have different composition than their TOE they point to
- allied devices that have no production rate
- units with leaders that have wrong nationality
- leaders that have navy rank but are in the army

[el cid again]

RHSCVO 2.43: now Taiwan almost does not have supplies. Numbers are in red. Normal?

I have never seen Taiwan without supplies. I normally am running one test 24 hours a day and another any time I am not testing.

What is the game date?

[el cid again]

second that. I just downloaded the tool and checked the scenario. It finds several hundred lines of database errors. For example:
- ships that have different equipment than the class they are based on
- ships that arrive more earlier than their captains
- ships with guns that have no ammunition
- ships with a number of guns but no turrets for them

Look guys - there are thousands of ships - and I did not create the database with them in it. These games have run for a long time (CHS for over a year) without a lot of trouble due to these issues. I do not think a ship even needs a captain - if you assign none it certainly works fine. I have checked only about three captains in the entire world - it is not important to me. Is it important to code? In a few cases - where we changed class data - ships needed updating. But I did most of them by hand - and only some I missed remained last night when I checked (mainly Allied merchant ships and one class of IJA APDs). I frankly do not trust utilities not known to be safe messing with the database: I see too much evidence of data getting altered by tools - regretfully including the official editors - but they appear much safer than other tools in this respect. I have some evidence that wrong dates are simply field shifted one record: if correct that must have been done by a program. Perhaps captains shifted at the same time? On professional advice, I am not using any tools at all except the editors: others have seen similar issues with them. The only exception at all is WITP Excel - for pwhex - because no other tool permits its manipulation except ones not available to us (Andrew has his own, and presumably so does Matrix). And WITP Excel appears safe for pwhex - but NOT the location file or ship file.

[Aterpa]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

second that. I just downloaded the tool and checked the scenario. It finds several hundred lines of database errors. For example:
- ships that have different equipment than the class they are based on
- ships with a number of guns but no turrets for them
- pilots that are assigned to airgroup slots that are empty
- units that have different composition than their TOE they point to
- allied devices that have no production rate
- units with leaders that have wrong nationality
- leaders that have navy rank but are in the army

Look guys - there are thousands of ships - and I did not create the database with them in it. These games have run for a long time (CHS for over a year) without a lot of trouble due to these issues. I do not think a ship even needs a captain - if you assign none it certainly works fine. I have checked only about three captains in the entire world - it is not important to me. Is it important to code? In a few cases - where we changed class data - ships needed updating. But I did most of them by hand - and only some I missed remained last night when I checked (mainly Allied merchant ships and one class of IJA APDs). I frankly do not trust utilities not known to be safe messing with the database: I see too much evidence of data getting altered by tools - regretfully including the official editors - but they appear much safer than other tools in this respect. I have some evidence that wrong dates are simply field shifted one record: if correct that must have been done by a program. Perhaps captains shifted at the same time? On professional advice, I am not using any tools at all except the editors: others have seen similar issues with them. The only exception at all is WITP Excel - for pwhex - because no other tool permits its manipulation except ones not available to us (Andrew has his own, and presumably so does Matrix). And WITP Excel appears safe for pwhex - but NOT the location file or ship file.

This is no tool to change something in the data (it can not). It just checks the data for consistency and as such gives information, nothing more and nothing less.

[Aterpa]

For example this (very) short part of the report:

Location ID:2726 (183rd US Army Field Artillery Regiment) - same type but different device (155mm Howitzer) to TOE (75mm Field Gun) in weapon slot #1
Location ID:2726 (183rd US Army Field Artillery Regiment) - different device (Support Squad) to TOE (12.7mm M2 AAMG) in weapon slot #2
Location ID:2726 (183rd US Army Field Artillery Regiment) - different device (75mm Pack Howitzer) to TOE (Motorized Support) in weapon slot #3
Location ID:2727 (188th US Army Field Artillery Regiment) - same type but different device (155mm Howitzer) to TOE (75mm Field Gun) in weapon slot #1
Location ID:2727 (188th US Army Field Artillery Regiment) - different device (Support Squad) to TOE (12.7mm M2 AAMG) in weapon slot #2
Location ID:2727 (188th US Army Field Artillery Regiment) - different device (75mm Pack Howitzer) to TOE (Motorized Support) in weapon slot #3

-> so you can know there is something wrong with the 188th US Army Field Artillerie Regiment and can check and correct it (it looks like it points to wrong TOE, or TOE is wrong)

[TulliusDetritus]

El Cid Again, the game date is 7 december. Numbers:

Takao:
-supplies: 3,600
-supplies required: 11,729

Taichu:
-supplies: 2,187
-supplies required: 4,741

Taihoku:
-supplies: 21,600
-supplies required: 882

Bako:
-supplies: 37,967
-supplies required: 4,837

Is this "situation" normal?

P.S.:
oh, and there is only one important cargo TF in the area (in Bako): load => 12,000 supplies.

[langley]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

(2) Production of Hurricane IIC should start in June 1942 not May 1943.

This probably is confusing for players. To a modder in WITP "production" is NOT production - it is "available for operational use in PTO" - a different thing entirely. In real life it takes time to move from factory to a unit. In WITP it happens at the speed of light. In real life it takes time to learn how to use a plane. In WITP it happens at hypersonic speed. We looked at when the first unit actually entered the theater, and generally set that as our "production" date - since they instantly become available theater wide from that date. In some cases, where planes are made on the map, we look at operational use, not when they existed on the map. In other cases, when the plane never was in use, we use best case real planes for a guide - and calculate first operational use from test flight or production start or some other hard date. But in general, in CHS you got planes theater wide early - either the date of production or up to a year earlier than that. In RHS, you get planes LATER than production - a variable amount later - but not generally less than two months. So if it is later than real production - yep - that is the RHS pattern - should be later. The only question is "how much later" - and why?

Thanks for coming back to me!
The Hurricane IIc started to be used by the RAF in the Karachi area from June 1942 going to 79, 607 and 615 Squadrons in that month. Maybe I was wrong to say May 1942 but June or July at the latest may be a better option.
The Hurricane IV appears to of being operating with 42 squadron by December 1943.

MJT

[pad152]

Look guys - there are thousands of ships - and I did not create the database with them in it. These games have run for a long time (CHS for over a year) without a lot of trouble due to these issues. I do not think a ship even needs a captain - if you assign none it certainly works fine. I have checked only about three captains in the entire world - it is not important to me. Is it important to code? In a few cases - where we changed class data - ships needed updating. But I did most of them by hand - and only some I missed remained last night when I checked (mainly Allied merchant ships and one class of IJA APDs). I frankly do not trust utilities not known to be safe messing with the database: I see too much evidence of data getting altered by tools - regretfully including the official editors - but they appear much safer than other tools in this respect. I have some evidence that wrong dates are simply field shifted one record: if correct that must have been done by a program. Perhaps captains shifted at the same time? On professional advice, I am not using any tools at all except the editors: others have seen similar issues with them. The only exception at all is WITP Excel - for pwhex - because no other tool permits its manipulation except ones not available to us (Andrew has his own, and presumably so does Matrix). And WITP Excel appears safe for pwhex - but NOT the location file or ship file.

el cid

At lease download and try witpchk, run it against the offical scenarios and the 1.6 release of CHS, then on RHS scenarion 60. The errors I'm seeing are not the same as CHS! I belive your scenario data has become corrupt! Witpchk hangs on your scenario data but does not on CHS.

Witpchk does not change any thing only reports on what it finds. Some errors are more like warnings and you'll see the same type even with the offical scenarios.


Tankerace used WITPchk in the making of Plan Orange!

[Aterpa]

ORIGINAL: pad152

You may want to sent a copy of RHS to user "Michaelm" and ask him why WITPCHK hangs when running against scenario 60.

Just delete all comment lines (like UK AIRCRAFT...) and witpchk runs well.

[Aterpa]

Version 2.42:

- Furutaka (8) upgrades to Aoba (517), intended?
- Oyodo (15) has Air Ordnance (slot 20), but zero value
- Junyo (31) has in weapon slot #20 50 kg GP Bomb -> should have Air Ordnance
- Shimane Maru (47) - zero value in turret number of weapon slot #10 (Type 22 Radar) -> should have 1
- Kumano Maru (48) - zero value in turret number of weapon slot #5 (25mm Type 96 AA Gun) -> should have 1, also values in empty weapon slot #9, also zero value in turret number of weapon slot #10 (Type 22 Radar) -> should have 1
- ship class Agano-Mod [Job 810] (25) has (weapon slot 6) 3 25mm guns in two turrets

[el cid again]

- Furutaka (8) upgrades to Aoba (517), intended?

Yeah. They are sisters. There seems to be a convention - if a ship upgrades - any in the class can upgrade - but the standard is named for the sister that really did it - to help people verify the definition of the class in that form.

[el cid again]

- Oyodo (15) has Air Ordnance (slot 20), but zero value

Depends on how she is defined: if a cruiser than probably no air ordnance - if a CS than probably yes. Will compare all mods and stock. Thanks.

[CobraAus]

goodies time V2.44 has been packaged and dispersed to list

The last mini update in the 2.4 series

because I have determined a major rework of economics is required for anything to work once stockpiles run out

this fixes

one class of Japanese DEs with respect to radar (an inherited setting)
one class of Japanese APDs with respect to weapons
and many Allied merchant ships with respect to weapons

one art pointer (Anson)

New Zealand Command is activated for land and air units

A squadron on a British carrier appears too soon - the carrier is ONLY a ferry until February 42 - so it is delayed

and a few minor technical matters which I found and/or were pointed out to me

Cobra Aus

there is an outstanding problem the TBD Devestator is pointing to Bitmap 20 should be 80
Sid has been notified.

[el cid again]

Junyo (31) has in weapon slot #20 50 kg GP Bomb -> should have Air Ordnance

Yep. One of those one slot shifts so common working with this system. Not sure how that happens? I suspect the editor when you update. Since you don't see slot 20, easy to miss!

[el cid again]

Shimane Maru (47) - zero value in turret number of weapon slot #10 (Type 22 Radar) -> should have 1
- Kumano Maru (48) - zero value in turret number of weapon slot #5 (25mm Type 96 AA Gun) -> should have 1, also values in empty weapon slot #9, also zero value in turret number of weapon slot #10 (Type 22 Radar) -> should have 1
- ship class Agano-Mod [Job 810] (25) has (weapon slot 6) 3 25mm guns in two turrets

Thanks, will check tonight.

[el cid again]

there is an outstanding problem the TBD Devestator is pointing to Bitmap 20 should be 80

Notified - but he can't fix it - because it is right in his files. I cannot explain this one.