I agree with you. However, the bomb plot by Georg Elser was on November 8th, 1939. What would have happened if Hitler would have been killed on that date? Goering wouldn't have started WWII, but would he be able to end it when coming to power on November 9th, 1939?
Kind regards,
Roland
Well, flying saucers from Mars would have....This hypothetical BS can go on and on>>>>>
I.E If my daddy was a mix of Mary magdelane and the devil and he/she met Thatcher on a good day down the mines........
Too right Sarge you know the score - I have been map scouring and ploting our defensive posistion's made in 40-41. It would have been murder. A lot of theses posistions still exist. I will post some soon.
We are a nation born of invaders!! We are Romans, Celts, Saxons and vikings amongst others!!!!
BE AFRAID....BE VERY AFRAID!! [:D][8D][:'(]
While I find your antics somewhat amusing I find it necessary to remind you of one thing. You are a nation borne of SUCCESSFUL invaders: dozens of them, one after another over thousands of years. Far more numerous, in fact, than unsuccessful invaders.
Thank you for the comic relief, though. Jolly good show.
Paul
Well it can be a bit high on the YAWN factor here (Sometimes)[:D].........but I LOVE YOU. Each and every one, even those coward Lurkers.. come in ..I will love you[X(][:D][:D][8D]
Excellent observations. We keep running into the, "Germany could have won if the didn't have Hitler," arguement. But no Hitler, no WW2. A point to keep in mind is that some of the scientists integral to the atom bomb project fled Germany or Italy to escape political persecution (antisemitism and other such features of the regemes).
Tom OC
Great, but ultimately doomed thread! No Hitler and would WW2 as we know it have actually been WW3 as we feared it?
Aside from that, Hitler was a much better politician than hindsight gives credit for. We'll never know now if given slightly different circumstances Halifax would have led Britain to peace with the Germans and freedom to destroy the USSR at its leisure. If you talk economics, USA was on the brink of another depression in the late 30s had it not had a war to conveniently be the arsenal for and maybe given another 2 years of peace the axis might have faced a different situation...
but who knows and thats the magic of games, to test out the counterfactual without anyone getting hurt...
Well (In Reply to Jimm & others)....No Hitler no WW2 is an oversimplification. There were numerous factions within the Nazi government (SS, Luftwaffe, Army, Foreign Office, Labor Servics, Nazi Party, (the remaininig) SA). All were vieing for more power. As someone pointed out, this was a "Feature" of the government. [:D] If Hitler was assisanated, it is by no means sure that Goering would have succeeded him. Even if he did, who would follow him?[8|] He had nowhere near the (Germanic) chrisma of Hitler, and was a fat, lazy, drug addicted slob to boot. In order to acheive a military victory, WHOEVER became head of state would have had to quickly execute drastic government reforms, so that the system was not utterly chaotic. These reforms would had had to include removing from power people like Himmler, Heydrich, Borman, Ley......it would have made the night of the long knives look like a girl scout picnic. [X(]
Then there is the alliegence problem. Hitler KEPT the goverment fragmanted into factions. The new leader would have to unite the factions (after executing or imprisoning the leaders), AND maintain the immense popular support Hitler enjoyed. No small task. Perhaps someone like Rommel could have become Der Furher #2, but in 1940, Rommel was an avid Hitler supporter. [:-]
I agree that technically, Germany could have won a military victory if they purged Hitler & company, but there were enormous practical obstacles to overcome. I think the problem was more political than military, in that sense.
Tom OC
"Ideological conviction will trump logistics, numbers, and firepower every time"
J. Stalin, 1936-1941...A. Hitler, 1933-1945. W. Churchill (very rarely, and usually in North Africa). F. D. Roosvelt (smart enough to let the generals run the war).
It's not really an oversimplification . No Hitler = No WW2.
Who else would have pushed to the brink and forced all the appeasers of Europe to finally go to war. France was afraid of war , the Uk couldn't afford war , USA wasn't intrested in war , And the USSR and Japan and China were already having thier own territory wars. Italy was enjoying mediating and Spain had already finished with war.
No major power wanted or could afford 'WW1: the return'
Hitler's gambling and conceit of his own political prowess led him to go too far . He knew that war was coming { because he needed and wanted it} but not when.
Put even a slightly more rational leader in charge and the mad brinkmanship is unlikely to appear. A more diplomatic approach is likely to produce favourable results.Political leaders are afraid of war and will go a very long way to appease Germany.
It was the constant demands one after another that led to war. " they are worms ", but Hitler forced the worms to turn, no one else.
I phrased my remark poorly. Removing Hitler in 1940 would not necessarily allow Germany to win WW2. Admidatedly, Hitler's greatest mistake was starting WW2, but his judgement went downhill from there. (Case Yellow was Manstein's plan).
Tom OC
"Ideological conviction will trump logistics, numbers, and firepower every time"
J. Stalin, 1936-1941...A. Hitler, 1933-1945. W. Churchill (very rarely, and usually in North Africa). F. D. Roosvelt (smart enough to let the generals run the war).
