Grognard1812 (Soviet) vs Pitaman

[Grognard1812]

A significant reduction in the number of troops recruited each week by Soviet Army. On the last turn of 1943 the Soviet Army recruited 84,837 manpower but on the first turn of 1944 only 60,979 manpower were recruited due to the decreased multiplier for 1944.

[EwaldvonKleist]

ORIGINAL: Grognard1812

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

Germany in Moscow late 1943 seems good buth the Oob is terrible. Like completely wrecked. In past aars it was often 1 million more. You should do fine.
One tip, try to always have a unit in contact to the Germans, even if it is only a weak AT brigade. It means more attrition and less fatigue reduction, both is a huge benefit. Atm you seem reluctant to send units forward to uccupy recently freed hexagons.
Oob is so lopsided you need not fear a counteraatack. If it comesy jt will benefit you.

At the beginning of 1944 the Axis still control both Leningrad and Moscow, which is worrisome as it is still a long way to Berlin for the Soviet Army, my opponent had done well in 1942 and 1943. If the Soviet Army is unable to capture Berlin by end of the game I would consider it a German victory. Very few AAR have gone till the spring or summer of 1945.

I have avoided sending single or weak units forward to occupy recently freed hexes in an attempt to try to avoid giving my German opponent too many opportunities to counter-attack and increase the morale and experience levels of his retreating units. Most of the Soviet units (especially the Guards and Corps units) have morale above their national levels as they have been winning most of their combats and rarely retreat (I tend to stack forward hexes with at least 2 Corps or 3 divisions).

That is a fair reason for not doing it, but I still disagree.
In WitE the fatigue levels have significant effect on combat loss ratios.
If you keep a weak brigade in contact it means much less fatigue reduction during the logistics phase for the Germans and also more attrition/less repair of damaged elements. If they counterattack to gain morale, they will further fatigue their units (attacking a small unit fatigues not that much less than attacking a big stack, WitE doesn't model this well).
When it is your turn again you will get much higher losses since you will attack against 60+ fatigue units instead of, say, 20 fatigue units.
Counterattacking at this point suits you. The higher the fighting intensity the better. What limits ability to increase it are you are your own movement points and by counterattacking the Germans gift you theirs in a way.

It is indeed far to Berlin. What will limit you is not so much the German army as it is trucks and the rail repair speed. You should aim to always convert the maximum possible number of hexagons at your railheads, even in mud. To this end, it can be useful to prepare a deep penetration right before the snow-mud switch so you always have enough unconverted hexagons in front of the FBD so they never need to stop.

You are doing historically well in the South. You will probably get a frontline similiar to Operation bagration. A drive from Lvov Northwest will force the Germans to cede all the territory.

I know I repeat myselft, but the German OOB is extremely low, around 1 million man and 10k guns, and you are doing a great job grinding along the whole frontline. The German Army either has to run quickly or will collapse further.

[Pitaman]

Up to this point in the game, I have not posted to this AAR, I will do so now as my opponent has been kind enough to invite me to do so.

Yes, the German OOB is very concerning. Will have to work hard on recovering it throughout the rest of the game. I will discuss this point more in the future. Don't want to give away how I am dealing with this issue right now.

My strategy in this game was to capture and hold onto the major soviet population centers for as long as possible. Several reasons for this approach. First I deny my opponent access to his population reserves in these cities, second, I gain Hiwis from the cities as well. They are also major railroad centers and the longer I can hold on to them the slower my opponents advance will be as his rail capacity will be crippled.

I have found trying to cripple the soviet's other production sources, such as armament, resources, fuel, etc does not work well. The soviets simply have too many of them. So I am trying this manpower and railroad capacity approach. Will see if my approach works.

Right now, I have several major manpower centers, Moscow, Leningrad, Smolensk, Minsk and Kiev. I am hoping to hold onto them as long as possible. It is start of 1944 and I will see how long I can hold onto each of them. I know I will lose them but when will I lose them and how much will it cost the Germans to hold onto them. Only time will tell.

Compared to where the Germans were at this point in the war, They lost Kiev in Dec 43, the siege of Leningrad ended in January 44 and never did capture Moscow. We will see if these advantages can overcome my OOB issues and allow me to hold onto Berlin until the end of the game.

Pitaman

[timmyab]

The Axis position in Ukraine looks to be close to collapse. Concentrate six to eight tank armies down there and push hard. Game should be over before 1945.

[Grognard1812]

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

ORIGINAL: Grognard1812

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

Germany in Moscow late 1943 seems good buth the Oob is terrible. Like completely wrecked. In past aars it was often 1 million more. You should do fine.
One tip, try to always have a unit in contact to the Germans, even if it is only a weak AT brigade. It means more attrition and less fatigue reduction, both is a huge benefit. Atm you seem reluctant to send units forward to uccupy recently freed hexagons.
Oob is so lopsided you need not fear a counteraatack. If it comesy jt will benefit you.

At the beginning of 1944 the Axis still control both Leningrad and Moscow, which is worrisome as it is still a long way to Berlin for the Soviet Army, my opponent had done well in 1942 and 1943. If the Soviet Army is unable to capture Berlin by end of the game I would consider it a German victory. Very few AAR have gone till the spring or summer of 1945.

I have avoided sending single or weak units forward to occupy recently freed hexes in an attempt to try to avoid giving my German opponent too many opportunities to counter-attack and increase the morale and experience levels of his retreating units. Most of the Soviet units (especially the Guards and Corps units) have morale above their national levels as they have been winning most of their combats and rarely retreat (I tend to stack forward hexes with at least 2 Corps or 3 divisions).

That is a fair reason for not doing it, but I still disagree.
In WitE the fatigue levels have significant effect on combat loss ratios.
If you keep a weak brigade in contact it means much less fatigue reduction during the logistics phase for the Germans and also more attrition/less repair of damaged elements. If they counterattack to gain morale, they will further fatigue their units (attacking a small unit fatigues not that much less than attacking a big stack, WitE doesn't model this well).
When it is your turn again you will get much higher losses since you will attack against 60+ fatigue units instead of, say, 20 fatigue units.
Counterattacking at this point suits you. The higher the fighting intensity the better. What limits ability to increase it are you are your own movement points and by counterattacking the Germans gift you theirs in a way.

It is indeed far to Berlin. What will limit you is not so much the German army as it is trucks and the rail repair speed. You should aim to always convert the maximum possible number of hexagons at your railheads, even in mud. To this end, it can be useful to prepare a deep penetration right before the snow-mud switch so you always have enough unconverted hexagons in front of the FBD so they never need to stop.

You are doing historically well in the South. You will probably get a frontline similiar to Operation bagration. A drive from Lvov Northwest will force the Germans to cede all the territory.

I know I repeat myselft, but the German OOB is extremely low, around 1 million man and 10k guns, and you are doing a great job grinding along the whole frontline. The German Army either has to run quickly or will collapse further.

Thank you for the advice. As you recommend, starting on Turn 137 (the AAR is usually 3 to 4 turns behind) I have started sending single Soviet units forward at the end of each turn to try to keep as many Axis hexes in contact as possible. To see the effects I am saving the Axis losses screenshot at the beginning and end of each turn for the next couple turns, and will start posting them on turn 137.

Two of the three Soviet FBDs are in the South where the Soviet Army is advancing the most, and they are converting the maximum number of hexes each turn (about 3 hexes each blizzard turn), and I have sent another Soviet Tank Army to the south from the centre.

[Grognard1812]

ORIGINAL: Pitaman

Up to this point in the game, I have not posted to this AAR, I will do so now as my opponent has been kind enough to invite me to do so.

Yes, the German OOB is very concerning. Will have to work hard on recovering it throughout the rest of the game. I will discuss this point more in the future. Don't want to give away how I am dealing with this issue right now.

My strategy in this game was to capture and hold onto the major soviet population centers for as long as possible. Several reasons for this approach. First I deny my opponent access to his population reserves in these cities, second, I gain Hiwis from the cities as well. They are also major railroad centers and the longer I can hold on to them the slower my opponents advance will be as his rail capacity will be crippled.

I have found trying to cripple the soviet's other production sources, such as armament, resources, fuel, etc does not work well. The soviets simply have too many of them. So I am trying this manpower and railroad capacity approach. Will see if my approach works.

Right now, I have several major manpower centers, Moscow, Leningrad, Smolensk, Minsk and Kiev. I am hoping to hold onto them as long as possible. It is start of 1944 and I will see how long I can hold onto each of them. I know I will lose them but when will I lose them and how much will it cost the Germans to hold onto them. Only time will tell.

Compared to where the Germans were at this point in the war, They lost Kiev in Dec 43, the siege of Leningrad ended in January 44 and never did capture Moscow. We will see if these advantages can overcome my OOB issues and allow me to hold onto Berlin until the end of the game.

Pitaman

Thank you for posting. Losing the major railroad centers of Leningrad and especially Moscow appears to have had a significant effect on the Soviet Army's ability to resupply its units - most units have less than 50% of supply, fuel and ammo at the start of each turn. The Tank Corps need to be stationary for at least one or two turns to properly resupply in fuel, otherwise they only have about 20 to 28 movement points at the beginning of each turn, which greatly limits their offensive capabilities. Also starting in 1944 only about 60,000 manpower are recruited each turn due to the loss of Leningrad and Moscow, and the Soviet manpower pool is under 50,000 presently, this might limit the Soviet Army's ability to attack all along the Eastern Front in 1944.

[Grognard1812]

Turn 135, Snow in the North Soviet Weather Zone and Blizzard in the other two Soviet Zones.

West of Kursk the Soviet Army continues its successful drive towards Chernigov / Gomel against weakening German resistance.

[Grognard1812]

Cherkassy on the river Dnepr is only 50 miles away.

[Grognard1812]

Turn 136, blizzard in all 3 Soviet Weather Zones.

West of Dnepropetrovsk the German Army launches a local offensive with great élan and determination to try to regain the initiative.

[Grognard1812]

Resulting in 3 Soviet Tank Corps being surrounded.

[Grognard1812]

But in early 1944 the initiative rests with the Soviet Army and the German offensive is stopped with the leading Panzer Divisions being surrounded and routed.

[Grognard1812]

The drive westward continues with the Red Army being only 70 miles from Kiev and 10 miles for Cherkassy, will the German Army continue retreating or make a defensive stand along the Dnepr?

[Grognard1812]

The Soviet Army attacks North and South of Moscow in an attempt to surround the German garrison defending Moscow.

[Grognard1812]

Turn 137, blizzard in all 3 Soviet Weather Zones.

Losses at the beginning of the Soviet turn.

[Grognard1812]

The Axis forces had retreated from the Crimea, and Sevastopol was recaptured without an attack.

[Grognard1812]

Cherkassy was captured this turn as the Soviet forces in the area started to cross over to the western bank of the Dnepr. Will the German Army make a defensive stand at the Dnepr river and risk a repeat of the historical Korsun pocket?

[Grognard1812]

The Red Army continues its offensive north and south of Moscow in an attempt to encircle the German units defending Moscow.

[Grognard1812]

Loses at the end of the turn. The war of attrition continues.

[Grognard1812]

Turn 138, blizzard in the North Soviet Zone, Snow in the Central Soviet Zone, and Mud in the South Soviet Zone.

Losses at the start of turn 138.

[Grognard1812]

Typical supply / fuel / ammunition levels at the beginning of the turn for a Tank Corp - not enough supplies seem to be arriving at forward units - I think the main reason is a lack of railyard factories (mainly due to the loss of Moscow and Leningrad) to transport the supplies and resources.