Dutch AVP Arend: Scenario 1 Exploits
Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition
Re: Dutch AVP Arend: Scenario 1 Exploits
Arend was enroute to Exmouth as part of TF188 with an ETA of 2-3 days. Arend and AG Canopus were being escorted by a pair of minesweepers.
What the crew of Arend did not know was that TF348 had just left Perth heading for Geraldton. TF348 contained 2 important ships-AKE Admiral Day, capable of rearming all the ships in the region and AD Black Hawk, capable of repairing most the damage that might be caused to the ships in the region. In addition, AR Castor will be heading north as soon as her AA upgragde is complete. The captain of AR Castor, LCDR Goerk, U., a former commander of Arend, was looking forward to getting closer to the action and maybe seeing some of his former shipmates.
The plan to move resources out of north Australia was in progress. At Exmouth TF102 containing 5 xAKL cargo ships had arrived with a load of supplies and was currently docked and unloading. ASAP 5000 tons of resources would be loaded and moved to Geraldton.
Once loaded escorts will be added to TF 102 for the trip to Geraldton.
Last edited by WEXF on Wed Sep 11, 2024 12:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Dutch AVP Arend: Scenario 1 Exploits
8Sep found the AF at Carnarvon 41%>L4. A review of the level of resources located at the various bases in NW Australia showed:
The numbers were perfectly accountable. CD had increased by the 2000 daily production and no changes were recorded at PH or Exmouth. The chart has been expanded to show Carnarvon and Meek (the small base in the middle of the desert that originally had been a dot base but is now an AF2).
The numbers for Carnarvon and Meek prior to 7Sep are not available. Also, the only base in Australia set to store resources is Exmouth,
TF 102 continues to unload supplies at Exmouth with each ship down to 650 tons remaining. It will take several more days to completely unload so that 5000 tons of resources currently at Exmouth can be loaded and transported to the RR connection at Geraldton.
The numbers for Carnarvon and Meek prior to 7Sep are not available. Also, the only base in Australia set to store resources is Exmouth,
TF 102 continues to unload supplies at Exmouth with each ship down to 650 tons remaining. It will take several more days to completely unload so that 5000 tons of resources currently at Exmouth can be loaded and transported to the RR connection at Geraldton.
Re: Dutch AVP Arend: Scenario 1 Exploits
Full name Meekatharra for those who think Meek is an odd name for an Aussie town! And not exactly middle of the desert - it has a rail link to Geraldton.
Other than VP for constructing an airfield, I can't imagine why anyone would develop it. It's too far from the coast to attack or search for enemy ships, too far from other bases to provide LRCAP, and too easily isolated by any land invasion. The engineers could build more useful stuff elsewhere?
Other than VP for constructing an airfield, I can't imagine why anyone would develop it. It's too far from the coast to attack or search for enemy ships, too far from other bases to provide LRCAP, and too easily isolated by any land invasion. The engineers could build more useful stuff elsewhere?
No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth
Re: Dutch AVP Arend: Scenario 1 Exploits
We all have our own way of playing and your opinion on developing Meekatharra is generally the way most play. That being said, I am playing this AAR game somewhat differently. In my post of March 25 and a few others, I explained that Meekatharra was being developed as part of a larger plan that "might" be important to the defense of the region and or future offensive actions. That is why "Command" converted Meekatharra and a number of other bases to ABDA HQ. I am not suggesting that my way is the best way to play.BBfanboy wrote: Mon Sep 09, 2024 4:11 pm Full name Meekatharra for those who think Meek is an odd name for an Aussie town! And not exactly middle of the desert - it has a rail link to Geraldton.
Other than VP for constructing an airfield, I can't imagine why anyone would develop it. It's too far from the coast to attack or search for enemy ships, too far from other bases to provide LRCAP, and too easily isolated by any land invasion. The engineers could build more useful stuff elsewhere?
WEXF
Re: Dutch AVP Arend: Scenario 1 Exploits
OK, the mention of ABDA adds a lot to the discussion. I was trying to understand your reasoning more than criticize it. Good luck with your campaign!
No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth
Re: Dutch AVP Arend: Scenario 1 Exploits
Thanks for following the AAR. Comments are always appreciated.BBfanboy wrote: Mon Sep 09, 2024 10:17 pm OK, the mention of ABDA adds a lot to the discussion. I was trying to understand your reasoning more than criticize it. Good luck with your campaign!
WEXF
Re: Dutch AVP Arend: Scenario 1 Exploits
9Sep found the AF at Carnarvon 44%>L4. Arend had arrived at Exmouth. TF 102 was continuing to unload supplies at Exmouth and was about half empty with each ship still carrying 450 tons of supplies. It will be another 3 days before the ships are empty and ready to start loading resources for movement to Geraldton.
A review of the resources in the region once again was perfectly predictable.
The 2000 tons of resources produced at CD did not leave that location. No changes in the resources located at any of the other bases were noted.
In trying to better understand how our game works, I was wondering how long it would take resources to move from CD or PH to Exmouth through the desert? Of course all of the movement would take place "under the hood" and would not be seen at all on the map while in motion. Abstractly, the resources would be loaded on some form of transport, likely trucks that would make their way through the desert on the various trails and poor roads talked about in the rules. How fast would that movement happen? Is this a clue? The rate of maximum movement through desert by LCU's defined as "other" is just 3 miles per 12 hour period or 6 miles per day. CD is 8 hexes (320 miles) from Exmouth and PH is 7 hexes (280 miles). At a movement rate of 6 miles per day it would take 53.3 and 46.6 days respectively to make the trip under the best of circumstances. Would the abstract unit of trucks be treated as an "Other/LCU", or be handled in a totally different manner?
In the "Editor" there are only 2 unit types that are not considered artillery, armor, engineers, paratroops or armor. They are Headquarters and Coastal Defense units. It will take some time but if we see some movement of resources from either PH or CD through the desert to Exmouth, we just might get an answer to this question.
In trying to better understand how our game works, I was wondering how long it would take resources to move from CD or PH to Exmouth through the desert? Of course all of the movement would take place "under the hood" and would not be seen at all on the map while in motion. Abstractly, the resources would be loaded on some form of transport, likely trucks that would make their way through the desert on the various trails and poor roads talked about in the rules. How fast would that movement happen? Is this a clue? The rate of maximum movement through desert by LCU's defined as "other" is just 3 miles per 12 hour period or 6 miles per day. CD is 8 hexes (320 miles) from Exmouth and PH is 7 hexes (280 miles). At a movement rate of 6 miles per day it would take 53.3 and 46.6 days respectively to make the trip under the best of circumstances. Would the abstract unit of trucks be treated as an "Other/LCU", or be handled in a totally different manner?
In the "Editor" there are only 2 unit types that are not considered artillery, armor, engineers, paratroops or armor. They are Headquarters and Coastal Defense units. It will take some time but if we see some movement of resources from either PH or CD through the desert to Exmouth, we just might get an answer to this question.
Re: Dutch AVP Arend: Scenario 1 Exploits
The morning meeting on 10Sep was devoted to a review of the resources at various bases. It was clear that the mission to safely remove the vast resources stored at CD was starting to show results.
CD now has only 32624 tons instead of the 40280 it would have had if nothing moved this day (38280 +2000). That is a reduction of 7656 tons.
Exmouth has gone from 7253>14909 an increase of 7656 tons, the exact amount that has left CD. Other bases have not changed.
The supply officer pointed out that it was possible that the resources that reached Exmouth through the desert had actually come from PH and that CD had shipped more resources to PH using the RR. It would make sense that a trip over the desert would be easier from PH as PH is 40 miles closer to Exmouth. The supply officer closed the morning meeting by saying that several TF are almost ready to start moving resources from PH and Exmouth and that a close watch of the numbers will be needed to understand the actual patterns of resource movements. One thing was pretty clear. Movement of resources is being handled "under the hood" and not by the movement rates listed in the game manual. It took just about a week for the resources in Exmouth to double. A review of the various TF in both PH and Exmouth was planned for the afternoon meeting.
Exmouth has gone from 7253>14909 an increase of 7656 tons, the exact amount that has left CD. Other bases have not changed.
The supply officer pointed out that it was possible that the resources that reached Exmouth through the desert had actually come from PH and that CD had shipped more resources to PH using the RR. It would make sense that a trip over the desert would be easier from PH as PH is 40 miles closer to Exmouth. The supply officer closed the morning meeting by saying that several TF are almost ready to start moving resources from PH and Exmouth and that a close watch of the numbers will be needed to understand the actual patterns of resource movements. One thing was pretty clear. Movement of resources is being handled "under the hood" and not by the movement rates listed in the game manual. It took just about a week for the resources in Exmouth to double. A review of the various TF in both PH and Exmouth was planned for the afternoon meeting.
Re: Dutch AVP Arend: Scenario 1 Exploits
I think the rates of movement in the manual assume a 'full pipeline'. Starting a new demand path for supply is an empty pipeline and until it is filled you will not get the full movement rate. That's the way I understand it.
No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth
Re: Dutch AVP Arend: Scenario 1 Exploits
My comment on "movement rates in the manual" were about those of "other" LCU's through the desert (3 miles/12 hours) in the chart presented earlier. I was not referring to the movement of "supply". Sorry for the confusion.BBfanboy wrote: Sun Sep 15, 2024 6:45 am I think the rates of movement in the manual assume a 'full pipeline'. Starting a new demand path for supply is an empty pipeline and until it is filled you will not get the full movement rate. That's the way I understand it.
Thanks for the comment.
WEXF
Re: Dutch AVP Arend: Scenario 1 Exploits
The briefing on the various TF currently taking part in "Operation Resource" was detailed as far as it went. The briefing officer was clear that more ships could well be added in the future.
TF 102 was almost empty at Exmouth and would be loading 5000 resources for removal. Loading will be slow because of the size of the Exmouth port (P1). TF432 with 4 xAKL transports is currently at PH unloading supplies. ASAP 4000 resources will be loaded for removal. As PH is a P2, loading will be quicker but a bit more risky given the location of PH within the sphere of enemy activity. TF9 with 5xAKL transports has just arrived at Exmouth and will be sent to PH to unload and remove another 5000 resources. TF231 just arrived at Carnarvon (P2). It has only a single ship, xAK Shooting Star, 4820 tons and capable of carrying 4550 tons of resources. Its mission will be to fully load resources from Carnarvon and take them to Geraldton for RR transport to the rest of Australia. TF339 was now only 2-3 days from Geraldton carrying 3000 resources picked up about a week ago. All together Operation Resources (OR) is in the process of removing over 21,500 tons of resources from the NW of Australia. A drop in the bucket given the rate of production at CD of 2000 tons per day but the goal is to deny the resources to the enemy. Every little bit will help.
It was stressed that Command was reviewing the availability of other ships in the region and evaluating the best combination of ships and ports to maximize the amount of resources that can be moved in the shortest amount of time. Fortunately, no enemy air or naval activity has been seen in the region that might cause an immediate change in plans for Operation Resources.
TF 102 was almost empty at Exmouth and would be loading 5000 resources for removal. Loading will be slow because of the size of the Exmouth port (P1). TF432 with 4 xAKL transports is currently at PH unloading supplies. ASAP 4000 resources will be loaded for removal. As PH is a P2, loading will be quicker but a bit more risky given the location of PH within the sphere of enemy activity. TF9 with 5xAKL transports has just arrived at Exmouth and will be sent to PH to unload and remove another 5000 resources. TF231 just arrived at Carnarvon (P2). It has only a single ship, xAK Shooting Star, 4820 tons and capable of carrying 4550 tons of resources. Its mission will be to fully load resources from Carnarvon and take them to Geraldton for RR transport to the rest of Australia. TF339 was now only 2-3 days from Geraldton carrying 3000 resources picked up about a week ago. All together Operation Resources (OR) is in the process of removing over 21,500 tons of resources from the NW of Australia. A drop in the bucket given the rate of production at CD of 2000 tons per day but the goal is to deny the resources to the enemy. Every little bit will help.
It was stressed that Command was reviewing the availability of other ships in the region and evaluating the best combination of ships and ports to maximize the amount of resources that can be moved in the shortest amount of time. Fortunately, no enemy air or naval activity has been seen in the region that might cause an immediate change in plans for Operation Resources.
Re: Dutch AVP Arend: Scenario 1 Exploits
Just a note: I haven't played the Japan side with all the production implications, but I doubt Japan has enough spare shipping to start hauling resources from Port Hedland. Even if they did, there are plenty of resources much closer to industries that need them. I haul by CS convoy from PH because Australia needs the resources in the south, but I don't need to haul all of it either. Now, fuel and oil on the other hand ...
No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth
Re: Dutch AVP Arend: Scenario 1 Exploits
I appreciate the comment. I have tried to make clear that this AAR is partially my way of trying to get a better understanding of how our game works. What I am currently doing related to the movement of resources in NW Australia is my way of monitoring the mechanics of the game. I am not suggesting that what I am doing is the best way to "win" the game. Far from it. Most players agree that Japan does not need and is unlikely to prioritize the resources in CD/PH.BBfanboy wrote: Sat Sep 21, 2024 5:13 am Just a note: I haven't played the Japan side with all the production implications, but I doubt Japan has enough spare shipping to start hauling resources from Port Hedland. Even if they did, there are plenty of resources much closer to industries that need them.
WEXF
Re: Dutch AVP Arend: Scenario 1 Exploits
Thanks for the explanation. Sometimes I am not clear on whether you are doing things because you think it is the best way to use your resources or if you are just trying out the mechanics of things. You certainly tested the movment of resources thoroughly! Good work!
No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth
Re: Dutch AVP Arend: Scenario 1 Exploits
In this AAR, I am wearing the "hat" of the "Command" in western Australia. In that role I do try to use my assets to accomplish the missions that I set for my command. That doesn't always fit with what would be the best way to play WITP-AE . As for testing the process of movement of resources in the region, the testing has just begun. I hope to follow it for quite a while so that I, and other players, can get a better sense of how things work.BBfanboy wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2024 6:12 pm Thanks for the explanation. Sometimes I am not clear on whether you are doing things because you think it is the best way to use your resources or if you are just trying out the mechanics of things. You certainly tested the movement of resources thoroughly! Good work!
Again, thanks for posting your comments. They are appreciated.
WEXF
Re: Dutch AVP Arend: Scenario 1 Exploits
11Sep has the Carnarvon AF 50%>L4. Progress is slow but steady. A review of the resources at the various bases was quite easy. Nothing out the expected was noticed.
CD has increased by the daily production of 2000 resources. Carnarvon now has 800 tons less as TF 231 has loaded that amount. TF231 will continue to load for an additional 5 days to reach a total of 4550 tons before heading to Geraldton and the RR connection. (Geraldton has been added to the chart and currently has just 5 tons of resources at the base.
The big news was that TF9 heading to Port Hedland encountered an enemy RO Boat in the coastal water between PH and Exmouth. The encounter was uneventful, but the crew of Arend has been alerted and may well be in action sooner than they had thought.
RO-33 is one of the better RO Boats. It is a Type K5 submarine capable of carrying Type 88 Mines. Command was quickly putting measures into place to counter this enemy activity. No details on these plans were shared for security reasons, but command did say that a later meeting would be reviewing the status of the various TF currently in Operation Resources.
The big news was that TF9 heading to Port Hedland encountered an enemy RO Boat in the coastal water between PH and Exmouth. The encounter was uneventful, but the crew of Arend has been alerted and may well be in action sooner than they had thought.
RO-33 is one of the better RO Boats. It is a Type K5 submarine capable of carrying Type 88 Mines. Command was quickly putting measures into place to counter this enemy activity. No details on these plans were shared for security reasons, but command did say that a later meeting would be reviewing the status of the various TF currently in Operation Resources.
Re: Dutch AVP Arend: Scenario 1 Exploits
At the afternoon briefing, Command reported TF 355 has arrived in Exmouth carrying segments of an Australian Base Force to provide additional engineering and aviation support to the base.
Priority at the docks will be given to ships loading resources so it will e some time before the new arrivals will be fully operational. Command also reported that a minesweeping TF has been sent from Exmouth to PH as a precaution.
Other ships were being assembled at Perth to provide backup for OR.
Re: Dutch AVP Arend: Scenario 1 Exploits
12Sep found the AF at Carnarvon 53%>L4. The briefing on OR (Operation Resource) was quite interesting as the charts had been expanded significantly in an effort to explain better what was happening. Also, it was mentioned that there had not been any further sighting of RO-33 or any enemy submarine.
At CD the number of Resource Points available has risen by the 2000 daily production. Nothing of none had happened there or at PH or Exmouth. At Carnarvon the Resource Points available had gone down by 800 as expected because of TF231.
It would take xAK Shooting Star 4 more days to load the rest of the 4550 RP (Resource Points) at the base for transport to Geraldton.
The 3 base with the dark blue arrows required detailed explanations.
If you have been following this AAR lately you know that TF339 had just arrived at Geraldton carrying 3000 RP removed from the north. The plan was to unload the RP and let the RR at Geraldton handle the rest, whatever that might be. Geraldton had 5 RP prior to the arrival of TF339. All 3000 RP unloaded in the early phases of the turn and left the base, except for 39RP. 2961RP had left Geraldton. TF339 had originally been escorted by a small AM. That ship has been replaced by DM Pope. TF339 will head back to Exmouth where it will again dock and load another 3000 RP. There is some concern about the level of damage on xAKL Sjobris. It will be watched closely and an alternate ship will be substituted if necessary.
Where did the 2961 RP go when they left Geraldton? The most likely destination would be Perth. Perth is the largest base in the region and is the only user of RP on the west coast of Australia. Perth produces a reasonable number of RP but in order for it to service both the LI and HI at the base, Perth needs to "import" 2000RP/day.
At the start of the day Perth had 13430 RP. After production and use of RP there were now 17015 RP available an increase of 3585.
The chart presented included Kalgoorlie as that base is the largest producer of RP in the region near Perth. It is likely that the shortfall of RP needed by Perth had been supplied from Kalgoorlie since the start of the war. Kalgoorlie has 170 Resource Centers producing 3400 RP/day. At the start of the day Kalgoorlie had 6825 RP at the base. The production of 3400 brought the total to 10,225. When the day ended there were only 3426 RP left at Kalgoorlie, just abut a single day's production. 6799 RP had left Kalgoorlie. Where they went is unknown and is not really that important to this AAR. Since Kalgoorlie is on the major RR the RP could have moved to any of the eastern bases that need RP.
Meekatharra had been dropped from the chart as no change from the 9 RP there had happened.
The 3 base with the dark blue arrows required detailed explanations.
If you have been following this AAR lately you know that TF339 had just arrived at Geraldton carrying 3000 RP removed from the north. The plan was to unload the RP and let the RR at Geraldton handle the rest, whatever that might be. Geraldton had 5 RP prior to the arrival of TF339. All 3000 RP unloaded in the early phases of the turn and left the base, except for 39RP. 2961RP had left Geraldton. TF339 had originally been escorted by a small AM. That ship has been replaced by DM Pope. TF339 will head back to Exmouth where it will again dock and load another 3000 RP. There is some concern about the level of damage on xAKL Sjobris. It will be watched closely and an alternate ship will be substituted if necessary.
Where did the 2961 RP go when they left Geraldton? The most likely destination would be Perth. Perth is the largest base in the region and is the only user of RP on the west coast of Australia. Perth produces a reasonable number of RP but in order for it to service both the LI and HI at the base, Perth needs to "import" 2000RP/day.
At the start of the day Perth had 13430 RP. After production and use of RP there were now 17015 RP available an increase of 3585.
The chart presented included Kalgoorlie as that base is the largest producer of RP in the region near Perth. It is likely that the shortfall of RP needed by Perth had been supplied from Kalgoorlie since the start of the war. Kalgoorlie has 170 Resource Centers producing 3400 RP/day. At the start of the day Kalgoorlie had 6825 RP at the base. The production of 3400 brought the total to 10,225. When the day ended there were only 3426 RP left at Kalgoorlie, just abut a single day's production. 6799 RP had left Kalgoorlie. Where they went is unknown and is not really that important to this AAR. Since Kalgoorlie is on the major RR the RP could have moved to any of the eastern bases that need RP.
Meekatharra had been dropped from the chart as no change from the 9 RP there had happened.
Re: Dutch AVP Arend: Scenario 1 Exploits
To help better understand the previous part of this thread here are the base details for Perth and Kalgoorlie.
Notice in the screens that there is no damage to any of the industries.
In the past I have been referring to the cargo on the TF as "tons" of resources. That was a mistake on my part. In our game the correct term is "Resource Points". Resource Points are defined as an "abstraction", meaning that they do not actually represent any particular commodity. (Section 13.2.1.1.)
Since RP are an abstraction, it makes sense that how they move and the speed with which they move are also abstractions. IMO it makes no sense to try and figure out what happens "under the hood". It seems that to some degree the movement of RP can be considered an extension of FOW. We all know the resources will move but how fast they move and exactly where they will go can always be a crap shoot.
For the purpose of this AAR, it was important to know that when RP are unloaded at Geraldton, they quickly are picked up by the RR for movement. Hopefully, that will continue. That being said, in WITP-AE anything can happen. We'll see!
In the past I have been referring to the cargo on the TF as "tons" of resources. That was a mistake on my part. In our game the correct term is "Resource Points". Resource Points are defined as an "abstraction", meaning that they do not actually represent any particular commodity. (Section 13.2.1.1.)
Since RP are an abstraction, it makes sense that how they move and the speed with which they move are also abstractions. IMO it makes no sense to try and figure out what happens "under the hood". It seems that to some degree the movement of RP can be considered an extension of FOW. We all know the resources will move but how fast they move and exactly where they will go can always be a crap shoot.
For the purpose of this AAR, it was important to know that when RP are unloaded at Geraldton, they quickly are picked up by the RR for movement. Hopefully, that will continue. That being said, in WITP-AE anything can happen. We'll see!
Re: Dutch AVP Arend: Scenario 1 Exploits
13Sep found the AF at Carnarvon 56%>L4. The morning briefing was quite different from what was expected by the men of Arend and the others in attendance. The briefing was being conducted by a young officer that no one recognized. He was introduced as the intelligence officer responsible for monitoring all aspects of the enemy's patrol aircraft. It was explained that yesterday, a H6K4 Mavis had been intercepted and shot down over Port Hedland. Originally mistaken for an enemy bomber the Mavis was shot down by PO Middleton of No. 76 Squadron while flying CAP.
It was pointed out that although intelligence believed that a number of Mavis aircraft had been lost due to operational issues this was the first time one of these important planes had been destroyed in A2A combat.
76 Squadron had been active since the beginning and had lost a number of airframes and pilots during the last 9 months.
PO Middleton was not the most experienced pilot in the squadron but he had flown over 100 missions and had been credited with an earlier "kill".
Many of the men at the briefing could not help but close their eyes and place themselves in the cockpit with PO Middleton as he flew his Kittyhawk fighter yesterday. They imagined what it must have felt like to see a lone, large, slow moving enemy patrol plane. Most of the time pilots of 76 Squadron had been up against enemy Zero fighters that outclassed their planes. This time things were different.
The briefing officer pointed out that the presence of the Mavis confirmed that the enemy was intent on obtaining recon information on what was happening in the region of Port Hedland. Patrol aircraft were the only planes available with the range to reach the region from existing enemy bases. Patrol planes were a scarce asset. There weren't lots of them and as 4 engine airframes they had issues with fatigue not seen with smaller planes. Flying at long range over extended time caused many maintenance issues. The briefing officer said that another meeting scheduled for a bit later in the day would go further into the "Best Known Intelligence-BKI" on the status of the H6K4 Mavis and other enemy patrol aircraft.
The briefing officer pointed out that the presence of the Mavis confirmed that the enemy was intent on obtaining recon information on what was happening in the region of Port Hedland. Patrol aircraft were the only planes available with the range to reach the region from existing enemy bases. Patrol planes were a scarce asset. There weren't lots of them and as 4 engine airframes they had issues with fatigue not seen with smaller planes. Flying at long range over extended time caused many maintenance issues. The briefing officer said that another meeting scheduled for a bit later in the day would go further into the "Best Known Intelligence-BKI" on the status of the H6K4 Mavis and other enemy patrol aircraft.
