The First Team: Take Two!

[ny59giants]

India and Sub assignments:

I would send 2 Glen equipped subs to the Aden channel area to give adequate forewarning. A third would be used to rotate in. If you do not consider it gamey, then upgrade them to Alfs for more range.

Assign 4 to 8 fleet boats. The RO are short range and would do well here.

[Canoerebel]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants
India and Sub assignments:

I would send 2 Glen equipped subs to the Aden channel area to give adequate forewarning. A third would be used to rotate in. If you do not consider it gamey, then upgrade them to Alfs for more range.

Assign 4 to 8 fleet boats. The RO are short range and would do well here.

Be careful, though, that your Glen recon don't stray into the HR "off limits" zone, which is usually four hexes from the Aden channel outlet.

[Rainer79]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
3. Take Bombay through weakening it with Blockade and then assault.

It seems to me that a LOT of IJA soldiers would have to die for this to happen, especially if the Allies have been building forts. ~1900 AV in a urban hex will be no pushover in any case. Bombay gets auto-supply - as does Karachi - so you will not be able to completely starve the bases either.

[John 3rd]

Great comments from all you guys. 

I was unaware of Bombay getting auto-supply.  Is it enough to support the troops there, build Forts, AND keep those 4EB flying?
 
MY thoughts are to take Bombay so we have NOTHING behind out lines for later in the war.  We do not need a Tobruk that is always one step away from breaking out...

The Allies have detected my move towards Changsha and are falling back all along their salient from south of Ichang to Nanchang.  This was always the goal to get them away from Nanchang and out of that river bend.  Question is now should I still attack across the river or go at Changsha from Nanchang?

Have hit Changsha's Resources doing 125 in damage over 2 days and then attacked the troops due south of Ichang to make them think I might be making a river crossing there, will shift back to Changsha today and plaster their AF where a few Chinese Bombers are flying.

Brad--How much China air do you want?

  

[Q-Ball]

This does bring up a key question. Entering a hex will stop enemy production from factories and resources. But can anyone confirm:

Will entering a hex stop the enemy from receiving auto supplies, like at Bombay?

This is a key question. Because if Bombay continues to collect supply, I don't see how it can be taken. I estimate well over 1000 AV in the hex, which means we would need all 10 Divisions in India to make a dent, and maybe not even then is it takeable.

Rather than stop and clear Bombay, I would rather leave troops in the urban hex to hold the Allies there; build up neighboring airbases; and keep pushing toward Karachi. I think we have a shot at cutting a bunch of units off by reaching Malir before the Allies, which will mean destroying them eventually.

Dan makes a good point, we want them to land on India eventually, not somewhere else. Losing it is inevitable, we'll have to figure out a plan to make that time consuming.

John, as far as China air, the biggest problem is that we don't have enough bases to fly air from. I would rather flatten the resources at Changsha, Wuhan, and Chungking first, as well as the Oil at Lankow. THEN, we can transfer Air in once we have the bases built. Once Burma falls, we will probably send more bombers to China rather than reverse, at least until we have airfields built in India.

[String]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball


Will entering a hex stop the enemy from receiving auto supplies, like at Bombay?

Unless they changed it in recent patches, NO!

[John 3rd]

OK.  I will hit Changsha tomorrow and then go back to hitting Resources and Oil.  Still am not sure if it serves to cross the river SW of Ichang and attack towards Changsha and Wenchow.  Need to debate on that more.

I THOUGHT the only auto supply in the game came at Karachi and West Coast USA bases.  Are we sure about Bombay?

[2ndACR]

Bombay........5000 supply and 3000 fuel
Karachi........25000 supply/9000 fuel
Chungking........300 supply
Irkutsk...........2500 supply
LA..........5000 supply/5000 fuel
SF...........25000 supply/25000 fuel
US..........10000 supply/10000 fuel

This is in stock patched to most recent. Mods could be different. Not sure about BigB......might check that out if you are unsure.

Nikmod changes things

Bombay ........none
Karachi.......3750/2250
most chinese bases get some auto supply avg is 200 each
Irkutsk...........same
LA........none
SF.........12500/12500
US........10000/10000

[2ndACR]

If you can keep hammering the airfields and port to destroy supplies with say half your airforce and the other half killing troops, you might have a shot.......bunch of round robin bombardments will be required though.

[Cap Mandrake]

If Bombay has autosupply I can't imagine you could succeed. I suppose with repeated naval bombardment and a large air effort you might be able to begin to destroy more supply than they receive...but that is questionable. It would be a major effort. They could rotate in fresh air groups from Karachi.

Can you imagine what a real siege of Bombay woudl be like [X(]?

After a few months of that I imagine the sacred cattle would have a bit more spring in their step...at least those remaining.

[ny59giants]

Bombay and Karachi each get 200 supply and 1500 fuel per day. No more, no less. 

[Q-Ball]

200 supply a day isn't tons, but probably enough to at least keep from starving. Not enough to conduct aggressive air ops. Still, I'm not optimistic we can ever take it, which is probably why they locked themselves there to begin with; they had the opportunity to move toward Karachi if they chose.

Without that auto-supply, they probably wouldn't make a stand there.

[2ndACR]

Get a couple good nuke bombardments and you can take it........I would have 4,000+ AV ready to try though.

[John 3rd]

I think Bombay is worth a try.  Why not leave Karachi alone and concentrate on what we were talking about for steps in strategy.  Grab that Arm--Jaipur--Delhi Line, clean-up the rear, build infrastructure, and try to take Bombay.  We'll have a better chance here then in Karachi (long supply lines and such).

Funny thought...if we grab Bombay do we get the auto-supply?

[n01487477]

Funny thought...if we grab Bombay do we get the auto-supply?

I believe not, but I haven't tested it ...

[FeurerKrieg]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
Still am not sure if it serves to cross the river SW of Ichang and attack towards Changsha and Wenchow.  Need to debate on that more.

IMO - this is a good idea only if coordinating with an attack from another direction. I was able to force the Chinese to retreat from Changsha by attacking over the river SW of Ichang WHILE having a bunch of divisions advance from the west of Changsha (Liuchow) and that threatened to cut them off.

But if the attack from Ichang is a singular advance, I think it would be easy for the Chinese to mount a defense northwest of Changsha, and it would be tough for your troops to pull supply over the trail from Ichang.

[Rainer79]

The Chinese can't completely retreat from Changsha since quite a few Corps there are static. They probably can muster enough mobile troops to defend their supply line and stop John's attack though.

As for Bombay, do you know how many forts the Allies have already built? Or alternatively if they have expanded the port and/or airfield there?

BTW Bombay and Karachi also receive 200 auto-resources every turn. I do have no idea if they will generate also generate free supply points or just the resources.

[ny59giants]

I would take all of India and once it is down to Bombay and Karachi you can figure out which one would be the easier to take first. Only the Allied bombers will be able to transfer back to Aden once you take a base. If you leave the Karachi alone then they could run in AK/AP to do an evac.  

[John 3rd]

Thanks Guys.

Michael--What are you doing up SO early?  Thought you turned to dust at this time of day???  [:D]  Whatever happened to my phone call I was told to wait for? 

Brad and I decided since the Chinese are retreating in that area to cancel the attack across river and move most of the troops to Nanchang where they can react faster by rail to threats and will decide to move them elsewhere once they are redeployed.

Can ANYONE tell me----maybe the Mod DESIGNER---WHY Japanese CAs have deck armor of 50 and WHY 500lb GP bombs carried by B-17s can penetrate 51!!!???    Mister Brian???

On the bright side we sank 5 large AK before a hole was punched in each of our CAs by B-17s flying at 15,000Ft...

(In my best mantra voice)  I will NOT say ANYTHING about B-17s...I will NOT say ANYTHING about B-17s...I will NOT say ANYTHING about B-17s...

[vettim89]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Thanks Guys.

Michael--What are you doing up SO early?  Thought you turned to dust at this time of day???  [:D]  Whatever happened to my phone call I was told to wait for? 

Brad and I decided since the Chinese are retreating in that area to cancel the attack across river and move most of the troops to Nanchang where they can react faster by rail to threats and will decide to move them elsewhere once they are redeployed.

Can ANYONE tell me----maybe the Mod DESIGNER---WHY Japanese CAs have deck armor of 50 and WHY 500lb GP bombs carried by B-17s can penetrate 51!!!???    Mister Brian???

On the bright side we sank 5 large AK before a hole was punched in each of our CAs by B-17s flying at 15,000Ft...

(In my best mantra voice)  I will NOT say ANYTHING about B-17s...I will NOT say ANYTHING about B-17s...I will NOT say ANYTHING about B-17s...

My conversations with Brian have been tht he did very little in terms of modding the ship values. I don't know if the values are stock or from another mod. Some comments:

1. As to Karachi, you need to act now as the Allies can autotransfer LCU from WCUSA to Karachi with a 90 day delay. I suspect your opponents may have done this the moment you troops landed at Viz. If so the AS will climb there very quickly.

2. A lot of the UK air unit reinforcements arrive in Bengal. Taking those bases will deny the Allies these valuable units I think.

3. In this mod, China is a dicey proposition. Most of the Chinese units are static. By taking bases you release these units to move about the country. Also I recomend you not surround bases. Make them retreat. You are better off fighting beat up units with no supply than having them respawn at Chungking in 30 days.