Nomonhan Redux: Seydlitz (Japan) vs. MBatch729 (Allies)

[seydlitz_slith]

Turn 52 27 Jan 1942

Thanks to terrible weather, there was almost no air combat at all. Total losses for each side from all causes was less than 10 aircraft.

Noteworthy events: I captured Cagayan on Mindanao.
He captured Kotou on the Russian front. Of course, he has the hex but the border fort unit still lives and he can not advance until he totally eliminates the unit which will take him at least another week. Then he gets to move to the next hex, which also contains a border fort unit. These fort units are the toughest units in the game to kill.

Next turn my forces should arrive in the target hex at Voroshilov, where he has 51 units waiting. This should make for a huge combat.

The only snaps worth showing this turn are of the Russian front sitrep:

[seydlitz_slith]

Up north in Manchukuo we will be fighting in two places as I continue to put pressure on his northern rail link.

[seydlitz_slith]

Finally, a snap for you planetop watchers. No aircraft died during the filming of this combat.

[Swenslim]

Exept fun I think idea to attack USSR is absolutly senseless. What will you get if win ? 800 oil and 10000-15000 resourcesper day ?  And this for hundreds planes, pilots and soldiers.

Hm... I am maybe wrong. If Soviet Union is totally defeated you have a right to send all this troops to China, and after you will smash China (it will take 3-4 months) you can send all this armada to India !

So I wish you good luck and hope to see this divisions on Deli in yearly 1943 year

[offenseman]

Those borders forts are like a Maginot Line.  Best to go around and choke them. The terrain around them does not look too good for flanking maneuvers though.I have not looked, are they static units? 

This remains a fascinating game to watch.

[seydlitz_slith]

ORIGINAL: Swenslim

Exept fun I think idea to attack USSR is absolutly senseless. What will you get if win ? 800 oil and 10000-15000 resourcesper day ?  And this for hundreds planes, pilots and soldiers.

Hm... I am maybe wrong. If Soviet Union is totally defeated you have a right to send all this troops to China, and after you will smash China (it will take 3-4 months) you can send all this armada to India !

So I wish you good luck and hope to see this divisions on Deli in yearly 1943 year

I chose option B....with the Soviets defeated I have the right to send my troops wherever I want.

Granted it is a tough fight, but it is close to the home islands and some of the equipment is on a level that the Japanese army and air force can fight with on an equal footing at game start.

Also, politically, this is a conflict that very nearly happened in real life.
The 8000 point garrison requirement does nothing to convey the tension and possibility of conflict that existed in the area in real life.

[seydlitz_slith]

ORIGINAL: offenseman

Those borders forts are like a Maginot Line.  Best to go around and choke them. The terrain around them does not look too good for flanking maneuvers though.I have not looked, are they static units? 

This remains a fascinating game to watch.

They are indeed static and that is part of the problem. You can crush them with overwhelming force but even if you have the hex they are still there until you totally destroy every last man, gun, and pillbox. This is new for witp and I think that it is very appropriate by the path the developers took.

With the fort set up, there is no way to quickly blitzkreig through the lines in the most desirable areas. On the rest of the map the terrain is enough to channel movement to the forts.

[aztez]

PBEM games are alternative history "books" so to me it is the fun part that alone should be enough to assault the Russians.

Not to mention you do not have to worry about in later years IF this campaign succeeds and by the looks of it it has a good chance doing so.

Looking forward for the battle of Voroshilov! [:D]

[offenseman]

ORIGINAL: aztez

PBEM games are alternative history "books" so to me it is the fun part that alone should be enough to assault the Russians.

Good point! I concur

[LoBaron]

also dont forget that you get quite a few VP´s that are hard to conquer back for the allies
with only a fraction of the fuel spent compared to other theatres...

[d0mbo]

ORIGINAL: seydlitz
I chose option B....with the Soviets defeated I have the right to send my troops wherever I want.
<SNIP>

Seylitz, how (in game terms) are the soviets defeated? Do you have to occupy certain VP locations and you will get a peace message? Or do you have to take every single hex to stop russian reinforcements going east for the entire timespan?

Curious to know.

Apart from that: great AAR! Keep it up!

[Smeulders]

ORIGINAL: d0mbo

ORIGINAL: seydlitz
I chose option B....with the Soviets defeated I have the right to send my troops wherever I want.
<SNIP>

Seylitz, how (in game terms) are the soviets defeated? Do you have to occupy certain VP locations and you will get a peace message? Or do you have to take every single hex to stop russian reinforcements going east for the entire timespan?

Curious to know.

Apart from that: great AAR! Keep it up!

You can't actually defeat the Soviets, best case scenario is you push them back into the off-map base 'Soviet Union'. Because of this, it's very important you cut off the large forces the Soviets have around Vladivostok, if they can retreat, you'll have to keep large garrisons up north for the rest of the war.

[seydlitz_slith]

Smeulders is correct. My plan is to drive the sourthern Russian forces around Vladivostok into the sea. Elsewhere I will cut Soviet supply and set troops in bases near the entry hexes. Without supplies, the isolated units in the cetral area will be incapable of offense and can be mopped up later. My committment of forces will boil down to enough to contain arriving units near their entry point. This will be much less than the 11-12000 AV that Japan starts the game with in this area.

[Kereguelen]

ORIGINAL: seydlitz

Up north in Manchukuo we will be fighting in two places as I continue to put pressure on his northern rail link.

What happened at Ulan Bator? If I remember correctly you were waiting for reinforcements there. But according to the pic above you are retreating? Or did I miss a post about this?

[Ghertz]

Oh, the anxiety of wanting to know how this turns out. I find myself returning to this thread several times a day to see if additional results have been posted. I'm really interested in seeing how this gambit resolves.

[stuman]

I am hoping this works out well. [:)]

[Rob Brennan UK]

Glued to it here too

[seydlitz_slith]

Ulan Bator happened a few turns ago. He rushed enough units in that I was at 1 to 2 odds. Therefore my units have pulled back to regroup and await reinforcements.

I am still holding north of the river near Shilka while I remove severe disruption. I have some good units here that should be able to win, but not until I get the disruption down which is currently in the 40-60 range on some units.

I did fight east of Borzya this turn. It should have been a cake walk but was not. With the enemy's woods bonus I went to 1 to 2 odds and couldn't clear him out. I am going to have to scrape some more units up from somewhere and send up there.

Here is a summary of my units near shilka that are shedding disruption and in the meantime doing bombardments.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 109,25

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 2208 troops, 126 guns, 63 vehicles, Assault Value = 1294

Defending force 12245 troops, 153 guns, 123 vehicles, Assault Value = 436


Allied ground losses:
23 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 7 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 2 (0 destroyed, 2 disabled)
Vehicles lost 4 (1 destroyed, 3 disabled)


Assaulting units:...
78th Infantry Regiment...
26th Recon Regiment...
36th Infantry Regiment...
19th Division...
29th Division...
1st Recon Regiment...
30th Infantry Regiment...
6th Manchukuo Cav Brigade...
8th Mountain Gun Regiment...
1st Ind. Field Artillery Regiment...
3rd RF Gun Battalion...
6th Army...
15th Medium Field Artillery Regiment...
7th RF Gun Battalion...
...
Defending units:...
209th Rifle Division...
188th NKVD Regiment...
33rd Tank Battalion...
35th Tank Battalion...


And here is the combat near Borzya...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 108,27

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 31535 troops, 228 guns, 111 vehicles, Assault Value = 943

Defending force 19548 troops, 174 guns, 1289 vehicles, Assault Value = 698

Japanese adjusted assault: 573

Allied adjusted defense: 1615

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), op mode(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
1164 casualties reported
Squads: 5 destroyed, 49 disabled
Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 84 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 10 disabled
Guns lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled)
Vehicles lost 7 (1 destroyed, 6 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
66 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 11 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 14 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 23 (1 destroyed, 22 disabled)


Assaulting units:...
14th Division...
23rd Division...
...
Defending units:...
61st Tank Division...
111th Tank Division...


Next turn I will make my first attack on Voroshilov as my units have arrived.

[seydlitz_slith]

At Changsha, I launched a deliberate attack but again failed to dislodge the Chinese. I will rest a few turns to remove disruption and try again. I am on the edge of getting the upper hand here.

Ground combat at Changsha (82,52)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 97827 troops, 907 guns, 170 vehicles, Assault Value = 2657

Defending force 82606 troops, 452 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1702

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 0

Japanese adjusted assault: 1087

Allied adjusted defense: 1133

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 0)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), disruption(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
1894 casualties reported
Squads: 8 destroyed, 82 disabled
Non Combat: 44 destroyed, 135 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 13 disabled
Vehicles lost 39 (36 destroyed, 3 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
5234 casualties reported
Squads: 166 destroyed, 189 disabled
Non Combat: 112 destroyed, 188 disabled
Engineers: 8 destroyed, 11 disabled
Guns lost 7 (0 destroyed, 7 disabled)


Assaulting units:...
13th Tank Regiment...
13th Division...
3rd Division...
34th Division...
40th Division...
6th Division...
116th Division...
39th Division...
58th Infantry Regiment...
8th Ind. Engineer Regiment...
1st Mortar Battalion...
14th Medium Field Artillery Regiment...
11th Army...
51st Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion...
15th Ind.Medium Field Artillery Regiment...
2nd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment...
2nd Ind. Engineer Regiment...
52nd Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion...
...
Defending units:...
72nd Chinese Corps...
73rd Chinese Corps...
53rd Chinese Corps...
58th Chinese Corps...
37th Chinese Corps...
87th Chinese Corps...
99th Chinese Corps...
26th Chinese Corps...
74th Chinese Corps...
20th Chinese Corps...
10th Chinese Corps...
5th Construction Regiment...
27th Group Army...
19th Group Army...
9th War Area ...
29th Group Army...

Next turn I will attack at Loyang. I have been bombarding there for a few turns and reaping a harvest of Chinese casualties.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Loyang (87,43)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 55131 troops, 416 guns, 116 vehicles, Assault Value = 3313

Defending force 51769 troops, 317 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 872

Japanese ground losses:
29 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Allied ground losses:
682 casualties reported
Squads: 8 destroyed, 19 disabled
Non Combat: 12 destroyed, 25 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 2 (0 destroyed, 2 disabled)


Assaulting units:...
7th Ind.Mixed Brigade...
3rd Ind.Mixed Brigade...
110th Division...
35th Division...
16th Ind.Mixed Brigade...
8th Ind.Mixed Brigade...
27th Division...
22nd Division...
15th Division...
17th Division...
32nd Division...
1st Army...
12th Army...
...
Defending units:...
9th Chinese Corps...
15th Chinese Corps...
27th Chinese Corps...
80th Chinese Corps...
93rd Chinese Corps...
34th Chinese Corps...
40th Chinese Corps...
33rd Chinese Corps...
2nd Chinese Cavalry Corps...
98th Chinese Corps...
5th New Chinese Corps...
4th Chinese Base Force...
15th Group Army...
39th Group Army...
10th Chinese Base Force...
14th Group Army...
Jingcha War Area ...
1st War Area ...
24th Group Army...
7th Group Army...
36th Group Army...
3rd Construction Regiment...
7th Construction Regiment...

[seydlitz_slith]

The biggest news of the turn was that my assault on Bataan was successful and I captured Bataan and Corregidor.
Now the only resistance left on Luzon is two American units at Iba. I will send one division to help my other forces already on sight, and the rest of my troops will move to Manila for pick up.

I have minesweepers enroute from Hong Kong to sweep the mines and literally over a hundred transports coming to pick the troops up. Despite the tempation to use the troops against Russia, I need to stay on my timetable in the SRA. These units will go to help finish up the slog in Malaya, then Palembang, Balikpapan, and finally Java.

In case you were wondering, the air war was a non-event again as the blizzard conditions kept most planes grounded.

Ground combat at Bataan (78,77)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 82783 troops, 671 guns, 422 vehicles, Assault Value = 2385

Defending force 19632 troops, 383 guns, 215 vehicles, Assault Value = 382

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 2

Japanese adjusted assault: 1152

Allied adjusted defense: 259

Japanese assault odds: 4 to 1 (fort level 2)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Bataan !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
1563 casualties reported
Squads: 5 destroyed, 73 disabled
Non Combat: 5 destroyed, 120 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 11 disabled
Guns lost 2 (0 destroyed, 2 disabled)
Vehicles lost 25 (1 destroyed, 24 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
38430 casualties reported
Squads: 472 destroyed, 243 disabled
Non Combat: 901 destroyed, 226 disabled
Engineers: 198 destroyed, 9 disabled
Guns lost 440 (378 destroyed, 62 disabled)
Vehicles lost 408 (393 destroyed, 15 disabled)
Units destroyed 25

Assaulting units:...
Kure 1st SNLF ...
1st Formosa Inf. Regiment...
20th Infantry Regiment...
4th Division...
66th Infantry Group ...
9th Infantry Regiment...
21st Division...
16th Engineer Regiment...
4th Tank Regiment...
2nd Tank Regiment...
Kimura Det ...
3rd Ind. Engineer Regiment...
48th Engineer Regiment...
Tanaka Detachment...
48th Recon Regiment...
21st Ind. Engineer Regiment...
7th Tank Regiment...
47th Infantry Regiment...
Sasebo 1st SNLF ...
65th Brigade...
Yokosuka 4th SNLF...
8th Medium Field Artillery Regiment...
1st Medium Field Artillery Regiment...
48th Field Artillery Regiment...
14th Army...
9th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion...
15th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion...
2nd Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion...
...
Defending units:...
21st PA Infantry Division...
3rd/45th PS Inf Battalion...
11th PA Infantry Division...
192nd Tank Battalion...
4th PA Constabulary Regiment...
2nd/45th PS Inf Battalion...
1st PA Constabulary Regiment...
26th PS Cavalry Regiment...
57th PS Infantry Regimental Combat Team...
14th PS Engineer Regiment...
Manila Bay Defenses ...
194th Tank Battalion...
1st/45th PS Inf Battalion...
2nd PA Constblry HW Regiment...
200th & 515th Coast AA Regiment...
Far East USAAF ...
201st PA Construction Battalion...
Asiatic Fleet ...
Clark Field USAAF Base Force...
1st USMC AA Battalion...
803rd Engineer Aviation Battalion...
301st Construction Battalion...
Bataan USN Base Force...
88th PS Field Artillery Regiment...
202nd PA Construction Battalion...