Turnaround? Lowpe (J) vs Tiemanj (A) Stock

[Crackaces]

I want to clarify a point. It is my thought that the conventional wisdom is for the Allies to get as close to the Home Islands as possible
and get 4E's and 2E bombers reaping strategic points. The sooner the better.

It is my opinion that this game has data to suggest that the Allies cannot
just simply drop in on the home islands, and a rather depleted IJ in this case in hindsight
had plenty of opportunity to teach the Allies a harsh lesson.

There were more then a few days of the Allies losing lots of 4E's that in 1944 it is quite possible to exhaust the pool.

Thus I believe the best strategy is to fight the IJ in places where multiple platforms can be launched at a single unsupported target.
Once the IJ have been thoroughly depleted of supply needed to reap airframes from the pool -- then start hitting locations with close supporting bases.

Wiptqs AAR is a good example of this strategy in my opinion.

[Lowpe]

A look at Nagoya's Defenders.

I have withdrawn two divisions and two tanks rgts to rest; need to withdraw more.

More tanks have arrived plus artillery and two divisions.

It is a mess.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

I want to clarify a point. It is my thought that the conventional wisdom is for the Allies to get as close to the Home Islands as possible
and get 4E's and 2E bombers reaping strategic points. The sooner the better.

It is my opinion that this game has data to suggest that the Allies cannot
just simply drop in on the home islands, and a rather depleted IJ in this case in hindsight
had plenty of opportunity to teach the Allies a harsh lesson.

There were more then a few days of the Allies losing lots of 4E's that in 1944 it is quite possible to exhaust the pool.

Thus I believe the best strategy is to fight the IJ in places where multiple platforms can be launched at a single unsupported target.
Once the IJ have been thoroughly depleted of supply needed to reap airframes from the pool -- then start hitting locations with close supporting bases.

Wiptqs AAR is a good example of this strategy in my opinion.

Oh, for Franks in mid 43 and not 2/44.[:-]

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

I want to clarify a point. It is my thought that the conventional wisdom is for the Allies to get as close to the Home Islands as possible
and get 4E's and 2E bombers reaping strategic points. The sooner the better.

It is my opinion that this game has data to suggest that the Allies cannot
just simply drop in on the home islands, and a rather depleted IJ in this case in hindsight
had plenty of opportunity to teach the Allies a harsh lesson.

There were more then a few days of the Allies losing lots of 4E's that in 1944 it is quite possible to exhaust the pool.

Thus I believe the best strategy is to fight the IJ in places where multiple platforms can be launched at a single unsupported target.
Once the IJ have been thoroughly depleted of supply needed to reap airframes from the pool -- then start hitting locations with close supporting bases.

Wiptqs AAR is a good example of this strategy in my opinion.

Oh, for Franks in mid 43 and not 2/44.[:-]

That would help.

To Crackaces's point, I think it depends on how the game has played out. If you're just going for points, there are strat points scattered over too many bases in Japan to cover them all. Of course, the Allies have to be able to reach out and touch all of those bases... but again, just depends on how the game has played out. Both of my Allied PBEMs so far have gone very differently from 1943 on.

[panzer cat]

Are you able to keep the ground forces in Japan supplied?

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: panzer cat

Are you able to keep the ground forces in Japan supplied?

Until 1945 sometime.[;)]

[Lowpe]

Turn is done...

I still have two solid ambushes up for the Allies.

Resting what is left of my Jacks and Franks on the HI. I can really see the difference between SR2 and SR3 fighters.

The rail lines along the Vietnam coast are crowded. Hopefully I can have another day, but perhaps not.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: witpqs


Can we see the whole report for that battle (starting counts & such)?

Ground combat at Nagoya (111,60)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 72584 troops, 968 guns, 2065 vehicles, Assault Value = 2869

Defending force 68525 troops, 932 guns, 520 vehicles, Assault Value = 1746

Allied adjusted assault: 1522

Japanese adjusted defense: 1893

Allied assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 0)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), disruption(-), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
4452 casualties reported
Squads: 57 destroyed, 362 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 56 disabled
Engineers: 10 destroyed, 32 disabled
Guns lost 69 (4 destroyed, 65 disabled)
Vehicles lost 104 (32 destroyed, 72 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
1756 casualties reported
Squads: 7 destroyed, 170 disabled
Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 84 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 25 disabled
Vehicles lost 188 (21 destroyed, 167 disabled)

Assaulting units:
775th Tank Battalion
1st USMC Tank Battalion
2nd Marine Division
1st Marine Division
44th Tank Battalion
4th Armoured Brigade
7th Australian Division
4th USMC Tank Battalion
3rd NZ Armoured Sqn
3rd USMC Tank Battalion
193rd Tank Battalion
1st Cavalry (Spec) Cavalry Division
9th Australian Division
3rd USMC Field Artillery Battalion
4th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
2nd USMC Field Artillery Battalion
XIV Corps Artillery
XI Corps Artillery
8th USMC Field Artillery Battalion

Defending units:
66th Ind.Mixed Brigade
38th Ind.Mixed Brigade
9th Tank Regiment
2nd Raiding Regiment
54th/A Division
73rd Division
10th Ind.Infantry Brigade
58th Ind.Mixed Brigade
52nd Ind.Mixed Brigade
27th Tank Regiment
1st Ind.Tank Co
4th Ind.Mixed Regiment
9th Ind.Mixed Regiment
18th Tank Regiment
124th Infantry Regiment
11th Tank Regiment
54th/B Division
34th Ind.Mixed Brigade
54th/C Division
67th JAAF AF Bn
9th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
Kanto JNAF Base Force
21st AA Regiment
7th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
49th JAAF AF Bn
157th JAAF AF Bn
63rd JNAF AF Unit
22nd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
72nd Air Flotilla
158th JAAF AF Bn
16th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
11th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
2nd JAAF AF Bn
77th Field AA Battalion
25th Ind. Field Artillery Battalion
2nd RF Gun Battalion
29th Ind. Engineer Regiment
58th JNAF AF Unit
29th Army
20th RF Gun Battalion
8th Ind. Field Artillery Battalion
96th JAAF AF Bn
Gifu JAAF Base Force

Oh, that was a very good battle for the Allies. Yikes!

[Lowpe]

What really hurt, are the combined ops that led up to the attack.[:(]

Almost every bomber hitting my troops. Not nice.[:-]

But even worse, are these faux invasion bombardment taskforces with 1 APD and a ton of bombardment style ships. They really lay devastation down on my artillery which is the main counter to the Allied tanks.

To counter I have shipped even more 47mm rapid fire cannons and more armored units-- they don't seem to engage the APD and hopefully can counter the Allied tanks some.

To think I have 4 more months of daily bombardments by 8 BB and company is quite depressing. I did however manage to counteract that but the amphibious TF bombarding and of course massed 4e at 7K are tough.

Perhaps the Allies will run low on supplies. Not likely, but you never know.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

What really hurt, are the combined ops that led up to the attack.[:(]

Almost every bomber hitting my troops. Not nice.[:-]

But even worse, are these faux invasion bombardment taskforces with 1 APD and a ton of bombardment style ships. They really lay devastation down on my artillery which is the main counter to the Allied tanks.

To counter I have shipped even more 47mm rapid fire cannons and more armored units-- they don't seem to engage the APD and hopefully can counter the Allied tanks some.

To think I have 4 more months of daily bombardments by 8 BB and company is quite depressing. I did however manage to counteract that but the amphibious TF bombarding and of course massed 4e at 7K are tough.

Perhaps the Allies will run low on supplies. Not likely, but you never know.

That makes me feel dirty.

[CaptBeefheart]

Is the faux amphibious bombardment a serious problem requiring an HR, or can it be counteracted? Maybe you can show us some combat results of that.

Cheers,
CC

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Commander Cody

Is the faux amphibious bombardment a serious problem requiring an HR, or can it be counteracted? Maybe you can show us some combat results of that.

Cheers,
CC

The only way I can think of that this is advantageous to just doing a direct bombardment attack is that the "amphibious" TF will (mostly) just shoot back at the units shooting at it - so essentially targeting the units with guns. This may happen anyway in a bombardment attack, and shots aren't "wasted" on AF/port/industry facilities.

[Barb]

Try laying multiple minefields in the target hex/approach hex - amphib TFs has to go really close to shore, so a higher chance to get a mine hit or two. A few of those and battlewagon takes forever to repair...?

[CaptBeefheart]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: Commander Cody

Is the faux amphibious bombardment a serious problem requiring an HR, or can it be counteracted? Maybe you can show us some combat results of that.

Cheers,
CC

The only way I can think of that this is advantageous to just doing a direct bombardment attack is that the "amphibious" TF will (mostly) just shoot back at the units shooting at it - so essentially targeting the units with guns. This may happen anyway in a bombardment attack, and shots aren't "wasted" on AF/port/industry facilities.

That could be significant. There's a nameless AAR out there (OPSEC) that suggests shore bombardments only disrupt support, not combat, units.

Cheers,
CC

[Alfred]

Lowpe,
 
Could you provide complete Combat Report showing the so called Allied "faux" invasion bombardment TF.  Depending on what exactly is in them, and which units on both sides are exchanging fire, there is a potential code exploit occurring here.  Not quite what Lokasenna said in post #6772 but not too far off the mark.  But it does depend very much on the exact TF composition.
 
Alfred

[Lowpe]

Here is one.

Pre-Invasion action off Nagoya (111,60) - Coastal Guns Fire Back!
Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force

166 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
BB Alabama
BB New Mexico
BB Pennsylvania
BB Colorado
CA San Diego II
CA Canberra II
CA Wichita
CA Minneapolis
CA Astoria
CA Northampton
CL Trenton
DD Lardner
DD Saufley
DD Renshaw
DD Picking
DD Melvin
DD Dortch
APD Waters, Shell hits 1

Japanese ground losses:
1350 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 78 disabled
Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 66 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled
Guns lost 11 (3 destroyed, 8 disabled)

BB Alabama firing at 54th/C Division
BB New Mexico firing at 77th Division
BB Pennsylvania firing at Nagoya Fortress
Nagoya Fortress firing at BB Pennsylvania
BB Colorado firing at 77th Division
CA San Diego II firing at 58th Ind.Mixed Brigade
CA Canberra II firing at 77th Division
CA Wichita firing at 73rd Division
CA Minneapolis firing at 73rd Division
CA Astoria firing at 73rd Division
CA Northampton firing at 73rd Division
CL Trenton firing at 73rd Division
DD Lardner firing at 54th/A Division
DD Saufley firing at 73rd Division
DD Renshaw firing at 22nd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
DD Picking firing at 58th Ind.Mixed Brigade
DD Melvin firing at 77th Division
8cm/40 T88 DP Gun Battery engaging DD Dortch at 11,000 yards
BB Alabama firing to suppress enemy battery at 11,000 yards
DD Picking fired at enemy troops
DD Melvin fired at enemy troops
75mm Infantry Gun battery firing at APD Waters
10cm T92 Gun battery firing at APD Waters
75mm T94 Mtn Gun battery firing at APD Waters
75mm Infantry Gun battery firing at APD Waters
8cm/40 T88 DP Gun battery firing at APD Waters
75mm Infantry Gun battery firing at APD Waters
75mm Infantry Gun battery firing at APD Waters
75mm T90 Field Gun battery firing at APD Waters

[Lowpe]

Here are yesterdays.

Pre-Invasion action off Nagoya (111,60)
Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force

150 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
BB Alabama
BB New Mexico
BB Pennsylvania
BB Colorado
CA San Diego II
CA Canberra II
CA Wichita
CA Minneapolis
CA Astoria
CA Northampton
CL Trenton
DD Saufley
DD Melvin
APD Noa

Japanese ground losses:
717 casualties reported
Squads: 4 destroyed, 49 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 58 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Guns lost 45 (5 destroyed, 40 disabled)

BB Alabama firing at 54th/A Division
BB New Mexico firing at 54th/C Division
BB Pennsylvania firing at 9th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
BB Colorado firing at 73rd Division
CA San Diego II firing at 9th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
CA Canberra II firing at 54th/C Division
CA Wichita firing at 73rd Division
CA Minneapolis firing at 22nd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
CA Astoria firing at 52nd Ind.Mixed Brigade
CA Northampton firing at 73rd Division
CL Trenton firing at 73rd Division
DD Saufley firing at 73rd Division
DD Melvin firing at 52nd Ind.Mixed Brigade
10cm T92 Gun battery firing at APD Noa
10cm T92 Gun battery firing at APD Noa
75mm T90 Field Gun battery firing at APD Noa
75mm T94 Mtn Gun battery firing at APD Noa
10cm T91 Howitzer battery firing at APD Noa
75mm Infantry Gun battery firing at APD Noa
8cm/40 T88 DP Gun battery firing at APD Noa
75mm T90 Field Gun battery firing at APD Noa
75mm T90 Field Gun battery firing at APD Noa


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amphibious Assault at Nagoya (111,60)

TF 17 troops unloading over beach at Nagoya, 111,60



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pre-Invasion action off Nagoya (111,60) - Coastal Guns Fire Back!
Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force

158 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
BB Nevada
BB West Virginia
CA Salt Lake City
CA Portland
DD McCook
DD Young
DD Irwin
DD Ingersoll
DD Halligan
DD Erben
DD Caperton
DD Boyd
APD Belknap

Japanese ground losses:
441 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 33 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 27 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 3 disabled
Guns lost 11 (2 destroyed, 9 disabled)

BB Nevada firing at 22nd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
BB West Virginia firing at Kanto JNAF Base Force
Kanto JNAF Base Force firing at BB West Virginia
CA Salt Lake City firing at 73rd Division
CA Portland firing at 73rd Division
DD McCook firing at 73rd Division
DD Young firing at 34th Ind.Mixed Brigade
DD Irwin firing at 52nd Ind.Mixed Brigade
DD Ingersoll firing at 66th Ind.Mixed Brigade
DD Halligan firing at 73rd Division
DD Erben firing at 54th/A Division
DD Caperton firing at 52nd Ind.Mixed Brigade
DD Boyd firing at 54th/A Division
DD Irwin fired at enemy troops
DD Ingersoll fired at enemy troops
DD Halligan fired at enemy troops
DD Caperton fired at enemy troops
DD Boyd fired at enemy troops
75mm T94 Mtn Gun battery firing at APD Belknap
75mm T94 Mtn Gun battery firing at APD Belknap
75mm T94 Mtn Gun battery firing at APD Belknap
75mm T90 Field Gun battery firing at APD Belknap
75mm T94 Mtn Gun battery firing at APD Belknap
75mm T94 Mtn Gun battery firing at APD Belknap
10cm T91 Howitzer battery firing at APD Belknap
8cm/40 T88 DP Gun battery firing at APD Belknap
75mm Infantry Gun battery firing at APD Belknap


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amphibious Assault at Nagoya (111,60)

TF 23 troops unloading over beach at Nagoya, 111,60

[Lowpe]

There is no reason for any HR,unless it is some kind of bug. Which I doubt.

But here you can see the Amphibious TF clearly target art and my heretofore hidden splinters and regiments.

[JocMeister]

Looks like he is landing supplies from a lone APD to trigger an Amphibious landing bombardment instead of a regular bombardment. If this is somehow more advantageous then doing a regular bombardment I would call it "creative use of the game engine".

To be honest I kind of did something similar in my game with Erik. You can´t place all those cool gun and rocket LCIs in a bombardment TF but you can place them in an amphibious. But I didn´t do it to get a better result. I just wanted to use the cool LCIs. Didn´t work very well though! [:D]

[MBF]

He may be using the APD for asw purposes - although this late in the war he should have plenty of DD/DE ships around