OT: Corona virus

[Canoerebel]

Netherlands had another nice drop in mortality (26). Belgium had a huge increase (323) but that was due to an adjustment in how hospital cases were counted from late March forwards. IE, those deaths would actually be spread out over about five weeks.

[RangerJoe]

To open or not. Maybe more COVID-19 deaths or more other deaths due to health problems not treated, mental health issues, and so on. Some of those may last for lifetimes, even for the children.

Of course, any country that has excess money to buy up Western debt would like the economies shuttered so public debt can be bought up as well as private companies be bought cheaply.

[Cap Mandrake]

Lockdown in perpetuity is an election strategy. Make your opponent take the necessary first step and then Monday Morning Quarterback the guy. The COVID virus is a gift from Gaia to opposition parties.

Your average public school 3rd grader could see that having the federal government borrow money and send out checks in the mail is not a practical long term strategy. If it were one would think someone might have thought of it already...oh wait...they HAVE thought of it and we have a 100 year track record of universal failure.

The economy is not a plaything of investment bankers and pinheads at the NYT. It's what FEEDS everyone.

[Cap Mandrake]

The alternative to reopening the economy is a few more months of cutting our own hair and then heading out to the mailbox for a green check and wave and secretly giggle at the neighbors mullet.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Here's one example of how opponents attack:

"Republicans are not here to protect you or your family,” said Garcia. “Governor Abbott finally admitted that prematurely opening Texas is going to lead to more cases and more deaths. Republicans are putting our families’ lives at risk so their billionaire donors can get richer. What Texas Republicans say in public yet again doesn’t match what they say in private.

“He knew deaths would happen by reopening Texas and now he needs to own it,” said Garcia.

Source: https://www.thedailybeast.com/texas-gov ... -lawmakers

I'm not very familiar with Abbot. I don't know if he's smart or not, ethical or not, cautious or reckless. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt on those issues since he's the leader of a major state and since most people do try to do what's right. But I find the attack by his opponent loathsome. "Republicans are putting our families' lives at risk so their billionaire donors can get richer." Attacks go both ways in politics, but this kind of stuff is really bad.

Well, here is a different take on that article.

The quote you used is not from an expert or anyone associated with the paper, it's from a democratic adversary, and it comes right at the end. This is a quote from a call Abbot made with congress. Doesn't sound too good when you read it out, especially if you're vulnerable or have loved ones who are, as many do.

“How do we know reopening businesses won’t result in faster spread of more cases of COVID-19?” Abbott asked during a Friday afternoon phone call with members of the state legislature and Congress. “Listen, the fact of the matter is pretty much every scientific and medical report shows that whenever you have a reopening—whether you want to call it a reopening of businesses or of just a reopening of society—in the aftermath of something like this, it actually will lead to an increase and spread. It’s almost ipso facto.”

“The more that you have people out there, the greater the possibility is for transmission,” Abbott said on the call, which a spokesperson confirmed was authentic on Tuesday. “The goal never has been to get transmission down to zero.”

The article continued by saying that this was very different than the public message. Understandably.

This is a more positive take in a public message. Sounds reasonable, unless you've heard the quote from the call to the congress.

“This may come up in answer to a future question, but the main thing that we look for—and this is the primary number that I’ve seen doctors and epidemiologists use—is that what we want to see is a reduction in the percentage of people who test positive,” said Abbott. “If we can continue to achieve that, that means that we have COVID-19 under the control that we need. And that’s what we’re looking to achieve.”

This rag is outside your usual target zone for these posts. I'd never heard of it before. Here is something to see how it stands up to examination.

[Canoerebel]

I read the whole thing. I've also read other articles and understand the point Abbott (and most everybody else) has been making. Yes, there are issues with easing countermeasures. We think they are manageable and we think it's worth doing. I have no issue with that position given the complexities of the situation.

The only issue I have is with how his opponent characterized the governor. You didn't denounce that, but I'm pretty sure you don't find it acceptable.

[Canoerebel]

Excerpts from an article in today's Atlanta Journal-Consitution. The writer/editors are trying to present information in a straightforward fashion but make a couple of mistakes. Understandable but likely to be read and spread.

https://www.ajc.com/news/northeast-geor ... DGy0KiJUN/

[Kull]

Out here in far west texas, el paso is a democrate stronghold and always has been. But it's hot and getting hotter (s/b 100+ tomorrow) and you can tell that people are completely sick of this. I had to get a car battery battery yesterday and the parking lots were full, and people were out everywhere. Most of those shopping wore masks but a good 20% did not and nobody said a word. Close to zero percent of those out walking (and there were many) are not wearing masks, and we have the same draconian rules most of the country has (the local govt is trying to pretend we aren't in Texas) but it will lead to riots if they try to enforce it.

Maybe the nanny states can keep the lockdowns going for a while, but people are not going to tolerate it for long, especially as the hot weather spreads north. Oh, and there's roughly a million people here, 1000 cases, and 16 deaths, every single one over 50 and with underlying conditions. For some people this is a really bad flu. For most it's a nothing burger.

[MakeeLearn]

Coronavirus: White House plans to disband virus task force
7 hours ago


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52553829



"US President Donald Trump has confirmed the White House coronavirus task force will be winding down, with Vice-President Mike Pence suggesting it could be disbanded within weeks.

"We are bringing our country back," Mr Trump said during a visit to a mask-manufacturing factory in Arizona.

New confirmed infections per day in the US currently top 20,000, and daily deaths exceed 1,000.

US health officials warn the virus may spread as businesses begin to reopen."

[Canoerebel]

Kull, good to see you! You haven't posted in here in about six weeks, I think. Glad to see you back.

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: obvert


The quote you used is not from an expert or anyone associated with the paper, it's from a democratic adversary, and it comes right at the end.

He very CLEARLY identified the quote as coming from an "opponent".

Why did you feel the need to attempt to 'qualify' it further?

[MakeeLearn]

Your genes could determine whether coronavirus puts you in the hospital — and we’re starting to unravel which ones matter
May 5, 2020


https://www.marketwatch.com/story/your- ... 2020-05-05


"The part of the alarm system that we tested is called the human leukocyte antigen system, or HLA. Each person has multiple alleles of the genes that make up their HLA type. Each allele codes for a different HLA protein. These proteins are the sensors of the alarm system and find intruders by binding to various peptides — chains of amino acids that make up parts of the coronavirus — that are foreign to the body.

Once an HLA protein binds to a virus or piece of a virus, it transports the intruder to the cell surface. This “marks” the cell as infected and from there the immune system will kill the cell."

[Canoerebel]

There have been all kinds of changes since this news came out yesterday. Various reports that it won't be disbanded or fully disbanded or that something else or some others will succeed it.

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

Coronavirus: White House plans to disband virus task force
7 hours ago


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52553829



"US President Donald Trump has confirmed the White House coronavirus task force will be winding down, with Vice-President Mike Pence suggesting it could be disbanded within weeks.

"We are bringing our country back," Mr Trump said during a visit to a mask-manufacturing factory in Arizona.

New confirmed infections per day in the US currently top 20,000, and daily deaths exceed 1,000.

US health officials warn the virus may spread as businesses begin to reopen."

[MakeeLearn]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

There have been all kinds of changes since this news came out yesterday. Various reports that it won't be disbanded or fully disbanded or that something else or some others will succeed it.

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

Coronavirus: White House plans to disband virus task force
7 hours ago


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52553829



"US President Donald Trump has confirmed the White House coronavirus task force will be winding down, with Vice-President Mike Pence suggesting it could be disbanded within weeks.

"We are bringing our country back," Mr Trump said during a visit to a mask-manufacturing factory in Arizona.

New confirmed infections per day in the US currently top 20,000, and daily deaths exceed 1,000.

US health officials warn the virus may spread as businesses begin to reopen."

Yes, a reformation of forces - "And we'll have a different group probably set up for that.""

But the title plants a seed.

[HansBolter]

These initiatives would seem to be a good start on the road of "making them pay", unlike those seeking to file law suits:

Trump ‘Turbocharging’ Initiative To Remove China From Global Supply Chain, Create New Group

https://www.dailywire.com/news/trump-tu ... -new-group


Report: India Offers Land Pool Twice the Size of Luxembourg to Companies Fleeing China

https://www.breitbart.com/national-secu ... ing-china/

[Canoerebel]

MakeeLearn, yes, you're right.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I read the whole thing. I've also read other articles and understand the point Abbott (and most everybody else) has been making. Yes, there are issues with easing countermeasures. We think they are manageable and we think it's worth doing. I have no issue with that position given the complexities of the situation.

The only issue I have is with how his opponent characterized the governor. You didn't denounce that, but I'm pretty sure you don't find it acceptable.

Without the context of the behind the scenes conversation made public, it's hard to understand the point the opponent is making. When you see it and have read the whole thing, it makes much more sense.

Why denounce something that is obviously a targeted political statement? That happens on both sides as you point out. We don't have to look far to see that.

The important point is to see both sides, and that is what journalism did in this case by clearly identifying parties, giving context, and showing each position. If this was a really smart and biased take on this story they would have left out the opponent's comment. That just gives anyone on the other side a way to divert from the actual situation to focus on the so-called "loathsome" critique.

[Kull]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Kull, good to see you! You haven't posted in here in about six weeks, I think. Glad to see you back.

Thanks man, all is well with the family. It felt like I had something worthwhile to add in terms of pulling data and trying to analyze what was really going on in Italy - the hardest hit place at the time with data which seemed reliable. Especially since the trajectory was heading up and the projections were calling for an apocalypse.

But since then it's become apparent that ALL the data we are seeing - including deaths - is being manipulated (and therefore unreliable), and the projections are little more than dart board estimates. Especially now that we're beginning to see the first antibody studies and those are showing how far the true mortality rate deviates from the "official" numbers. And that's without accounting for the fact that perhaps 1/2 or more of the Covid deaths would have been classified as something else in the case of EVERY other dieseas.

When some politicians are deliberately preventing doctors from prescribing helpful medications and even mandating that Covid patients be inserted into unprepared Nursing homes, well, you know this isn't about a disease any longer.

[Lowpe]

Obvert,

Newsguard, interesting browser addon. I did a little research on them...

Here is a site I frequent, oh, this is a perspective bias tool:

Homepage
https://www.allsides.com/media-bias/media-bias-ratings


For their review of the daily beast
https://www.allsides.com/news-source/da ... media-bias

[MakeeLearn]

Michigan Health Center Workers Stage “Fake Patients” In COVID19 Testing Line For CBS News
May 6, 2020


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQWRCEC ... e=youtu.be


Video