Stock FitE Karri vs Larry

[larryfulkerson]

Here's what Leningrad looks like these days:

[larryfulkerson]

I get most of my reinforcements from Gorkiy and Karri is trying to put a stop to that by sending some Turks in to help the Germans cut the lines of communication from Gorkiy to Moscow. I don't blame him, I would do the same thing.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's some of the Soviet losses so far:

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the Soviet view of the minimap moves movie from turns 102 thru 106:

[SMK-at-work]

Hopefully you can get a little final spiteful pleasure wiping out those Turks then - IIRC they don't reconstruct.... [8D]

[freeboy]

I still would be pulling troops from the far North and throwing them at those overextended guys near Gorki..

[Karri]

I've cut the railroads to Far North.

[Jaylord14]

ORIGINAL: Karri

God damn it. 2 infantry regiments evaporated and other units suffered massive losses due to interdiction. It still doesn't stop my units from advancing though...BUT, in my opinion the Soviet airforce needs to be much weaker. Right now it rules the skies and is able to do pretty much anything. And this in a situation where only Moscow and Leningrad stand with Germans knocking on the doors...and it's only '42, the soviet airforce should still be recovering from Operation Barbarossa.

At least I know what my airforce will be doing in the next FitE game I play, if Axis I will just concentrate on interdiction and destroying the Soviet air force...if Soviet sit back and commit everything in the first winter offensive and then enoy the superiority...

Had Larry placed his air units on interdiction earlier, perhaps no breakthrough would have happened.





Or yeah, perhaps I just suck at air war.

I told Larry that he needed to use interdiction more. If he had switched to mostly interdiction in early '42 (just keep a few of the very best units on CS). It's very difficult if not impossible to exploit an attack against a foe with air supremacy. This is an historical fact and the game simulates this pretty well. Unfortunately for Larry it's probably too late now. Although your guys to the east of Moskva are probably going to have some supply problems and might be prime candidates to be picked off. [:'(]

[Jaylord14]

ORIGINAL: Monkeys Brain

ORIGINAL: Deserted Fox

Howdy all,

My 2 cents re disbanding is, are you disbanding the unit so as to redistribute its equipment or are you disbanding it to save its sorry arse?

In FITE, the first option would rarely occur, and the second option is, IMHO, pure fantasy when compared to what could the unit really do if its almost surrounded, or totally surrounded. Oh, and because supply status of units is clculated at the start of the German turn, Russian units completely surrounded during the German turn, but in supply at the start of the turn are legal for disbanding......abuse or what?

Thus, disbanding is a big no no in my FITE games.

If you want to save Soviet units from being surrounded, plan ahead. Yes, its impossble to stop them getting surrounded now and then, but its up to your strategy to ensure it doesn't happen all the time.

Thanks for a great fight Karri and Larry, you do the scnario and game justice.

Mark

I agree... I don't see much point in disbanding anyway...
If Soviet player wants to disband something in Gorkiy or way deep behind I don'tr have much problem... maybe some low grade militia to get some equipment (but they are light inf. squads not rifle...).

Soviet player, anyway have too much work to do in trying to plug the holes, rail the units etc... he must plan ahead so disbanding is uselless, if you want that this or that unit die then let it die, but disbanding at the front is just way unhistorical. Just my take.

Disbanding on the front lines simulates the commanders telling the troops to "bug out" (to borrow a term from the Korean War). It means everybody high-tails it to the rear as fast as he can. A similar situation on the Western Front would be the Germans fleeing the Falaise Pocket. Lots of personnel get out, but very few organized units did. That doesn't mean there shouldn't be a penalty in lost men and equipment dependent on supply, etc.

[Karri]

Regarding the interdiction, either Larry decided to place his units on rest or the few last turns took their toll. This turn(107) there's practically no interdiction.

[Veers]

ORIGINAL: Jaylord14

ORIGINAL: Monkeys Brain

ORIGINAL: Deserted Fox

Howdy all,

My 2 cents re disbanding is, are you disbanding the unit so as to redistribute its equipment or are you disbanding it to save its sorry arse?

In FITE, the first option would rarely occur, and the second option is, IMHO, pure fantasy when compared to what could the unit really do if its almost surrounded, or totally surrounded. Oh, and because supply status of units is clculated at the start of the German turn, Russian units completely surrounded during the German turn, but in supply at the start of the turn are legal for disbanding......abuse or what?

Thus, disbanding is a big no no in my FITE games.

If you want to save Soviet units from being surrounded, plan ahead. Yes, its impossble to stop them getting surrounded now and then, but its up to your strategy to ensure it doesn't happen all the time.

Thanks for a great fight Karri and Larry, you do the scnario and game justice.

Mark

I agree... I don't see much point in disbanding anyway...
If Soviet player wants to disband something in Gorkiy or way deep behind I don'tr have much problem... maybe some low grade militia to get some equipment (but they are light inf. squads not rifle...).

Soviet player, anyway have too much work to do in trying to plug the holes, rail the units etc... he must plan ahead so disbanding is uselless, if you want that this or that unit die then let it die, but disbanding at the front is just way unhistorical. Just my take.

Disbanding on the front lines simulates the commanders telling the troops to "bug out" (to borrow a term from the Korean War). It means everybody high-tails it to the rear as fast as he can. A similar situation on the Western Front would be the Germans fleeing the Falaise Pocket. Lots of personnel get out, but very few organized units did. That doesn't mean there shouldn't be a penalty in lost men and equipment dependent on supply, etc.

I disagree. A commander telling the troops to bug out means that you start trying to move your equipment out via counters.
For example, if, in history, the Allies had closed the gap a little quicker the Germans would not have gotten out, organized or not. However, if, in game, the Allies had closed the gap a little quicker the Germans would still have had the opportunity to disband every unit in there saving the entire German (what 5th Pazner?) Armee in the pocket, so they could reconstitute 2-4 weeks later ready to primed and fight again.

In a game I played, I once surrounded an entire Army of my opponent's. Since he was player two he was able to simply disband each of those units, saving 20-something divisions. Now, had he not disbanded them, he would have, maybe, gotten out a couple divisions (in the event he got out none), but certainly not his entire army scott free.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's some of the Soviet losses so far ( before combat ):

[larryfulkerson]

here's the Soviet view of the minimap moves movie from turns 103 thru 107

[Veers]

If you can protect Moscow, and keep a perimeter around Leningrad and Gorky, you could be able to build up your strength for a liberating blow against the Fascists. Don't give up hope, Larry!

[DesertedFox]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaylord14


quote:

ORIGINAL: Monkeys Brain

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deserted Fox

Howdy all,

My 2 cents re disbanding is, are you disbanding the unit so as to redistribute its equipment or are you disbanding it to save its sorry arse?

In FITE, the first option would rarely occur, and the second option is, IMHO, pure fantasy when compared to what could the unit really do if its almost surrounded, or totally surrounded. Oh, and because supply status of units is clculated at the start of the German turn, Russian units completely surrounded during the German turn, but in supply at the start of the turn are legal for disbanding......abuse or what?

Thus, disbanding is a big no no in my FITE games.

If you want to save Soviet units from being surrounded, plan ahead. Yes, its impossble to stop them getting surrounded now and then, but its up to your strategy to ensure it doesn't happen all the time.

Thanks for a great fight Karri and Larry, you do the scnario and game justice.

Mark


I agree... I don't see much point in disbanding anyway...
If Soviet player wants to disband something in Gorkiy or way deep behind I don'tr have much problem... maybe some low grade militia to get some equipment (but they are light inf. squads not rifle...).

Soviet player, anyway have too much work to do in trying to plug the holes, rail the units etc... he must plan ahead so disbanding is uselless, if you want that this or that unit die then let it die, but disbanding at the front is just way unhistorical. Just my take.



Disbanding on the front lines simulates the commanders telling the troops to "bug out" (to borrow a term from the Korean War). It means everybody high-tails it to the rear as fast as he can. A similar situation on the Western Front would be the Germans fleeing the Falaise Pocket. Lots of personnel get out, but very few organized units did. That doesn't mean there shouldn't be a penalty in lost men and equipment dependent on supply, etc.


I disagree. A commander telling the troops to bug out means that you start trying to move your equipment out via counters.
For example, if, in history, the Allies had closed the gap a little quicker the Germans would not have gotten out, organized or not. However, if, in game, the Allies had closed the gap a little quicker the Germans would still have had the opportunity to disband every unit in there saving the entire German (what 5th Pazner?) Armee in the pocket, so they could reconstitute 2-4 weeks later ready to primed and fight again.

Hi Veers,

I enjoy reading your comments on the game, though I always wonder what a good looking shelia like your girlfriend sees in you...LOL.

As for the above oppoent of yours disbanding an entire army once it was surrounded, well that would have be a have a good life mate and game over for me. Find your self another opponent.

Part of the fun of PBEM wargaming is the often great people you play against, thankfully there are only a few idiots out there to avoid.

Mark

[Veers]

ORIGINAL: Deserted Fox
Hi Veers,
I enjoy reading your comments on the game, though I always wonder what a good looking shelia like your girlfriend sees in you...LOL.

I don't know, either. [:D]
EDIT: She says I'm cute, smart, and funny.

As for the above oppoent of yours disbanding an entire army once it was surrounded, well that would have be a have a good life mate and game over for me. Find your self another opponent.
Part of the fun of PBEM wargaming is the often great people you play against, thankfully there are only a few idiots out there to avoid.

He was quite new (his first PBEM) and after I showed him the error of his ways he was fully prepared to offer his surrender. I just let him replay the turn and we greatly enjoyed the game.

I have only had one opponent that has really cheated against me (this not being him), so I have been very fortunate. The opponents I have had have all (save that one) been very good and enjoyable opponents.

[Silvanski]

extraordinary campaign... the battle for fortress Moscow will go down in TOAW/FitE history, no matter what the outcome

[Telumar]

ORIGINAL: Silvanski

extraordinary campaign... the battle for fortress Moscow will go down in TOAW/FitE history, no matter what the outcome

Yeah.[&o] Looking forward to further developments, maybe a soviet counteroffensive starting at Gorki (?).

[freeboy]

I remember my German army pride in 42 and my dismay in the winter! BEWARE German players! Not of course "German" players, er um, should be players playing the Axis hiccup, .. I need to stop typing and drink more[:D]

So Larry, remember you can beat the snot out of him in the winter... & you get Tons of planes.. I would try a two fold attack plan with airpower.. hit all the major rail links, BRIDGES, to hinder supply and put a good ammount on cs...

On the ground? counter with part of ground forces all those over extended troops and dig in ... he looses supply every time he moves.. if you can get a Massive disruption in the post mud period, then he will be looking at moving troops and causing great harm, from my poor AXIS experience moving troops was super hard in winter, adding to the rails being interdicted and the panzers wieghing a lot, eating up the amount of rail! Be brave COMRADE LARRY![&o][&o][&o]

[Karri]

Larry's interdiction is still a bit dead...perhaps because most planes are in Moscow, Gorkiy and Siberia. On the other hand my interdiction is at whopping 8%!!! And guess what, I only have ONE unit on interdiction.

The strategical situation doesn't worry me. Leningrad will fall before mud starts, Moscow is cut off from Gorkiy and is being encircled by strong forces. Gorkiy is not secure, but there are...well I wouldn't say strong but strong enough screening forces to slow down any offensive Larry will launch. The problem for Soviets at this point is that whetever or not his offensive is succesful, it will only make his lines thinner and his unit more tired...and then he will bump into my main force(which just finished mopping up/resting)...but Larry has certainly hit my tired units pretty badly in the few last turns. I don't really care, casualties don't matter at this point...

Regarding casualties, I have quite a few infantry regiments at 10-20 HRSs...and they are not gaining replacements since my casualties are so heavy. But Larry must be having similar or even worse problems with all the hundred or so untis reconstructing.