OT: Corona virus

[MakeeLearn]

SF confirms it's giving drugs to homeless in hotels in 'limited quantities'
4 hrs ago


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/sf-co ... li=BBnb7Kz


"The San Francisco Department of Public Health said in a statement that in some cases "limited quantities" of alcohol, marijuana and tobacco are being provided through private funding to addicts in isolation and quarantine under the city's program housing homeless people in hotels. The substances are administered with the guidance of licensed physicians.

"Managed alcohol and tobacco use makes it possible to increase the number of guests who stay in isolation and quarantine and, notably, protects the health of people who might otherwise need hospital care for life-threatening alcohol withdrawal," SFDPH said in a statement."

[Cap Mandrake]

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

SF confirms it's giving drugs to homeless in hotels in 'limited quantities'
4 hrs ago


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/sf-co ... li=BBnb7Kz


"The San Francisco Department of Public Health said in a statement that in some cases "limited quantities" of alcohol, marijuana and tobacco are being provided through private funding to addicts in isolation and quarantine under the city's program housing homeless people in hotels. The substances are administered with the guidance of licensed physicians.

"Managed alcohol and tobacco use makes it possible to increase the number of guests who stay in isolation and quarantine and, notably, protects the health of people who might otherwise need hospital care for life-threatening alcohol withdrawal," SFDPH said in a statement."

OK...201 wants Jim Beam, full handle...302 ordered Grey Goose...give him the Popov in the Grey Goose bottle...he'll never tell the difference...304 want a Long Island Iced Tea and an order of onion rings....

[MakeeLearn]

Study: Coronavirus appears to die quickly in direct sunlight
May 7, 2020


https://www.wavy.com/news/health/corona ... -sunlight/


"In an exclusive interview, Paul Dabisch, a senior research scientist at the Department of Homeland Security’s biodefense research laboratory, said that initial lab tests show sunlight, higher temperatures and humidity are hurdles for the survival of the coronavirus.

“What we have found so far is that sunlight seems to be very detrimental to the virus,” Dabisch explained. “And so within minutes, the majority of the virus is inactivated on surfaces and in the air in direct sunlight.”"

[MakeeLearn]

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

SF confirms it's giving drugs to homeless in hotels in 'limited quantities'
4 hrs ago


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/sf-co ... li=BBnb7Kz


"The San Francisco Department of Public Health said in a statement that in some cases "limited quantities" of alcohol, marijuana and tobacco are being provided through private funding to addicts in isolation and quarantine under the city's program housing homeless people in hotels. The substances are administered with the guidance of licensed physicians.

"Managed alcohol and tobacco use makes it possible to increase the number of guests who stay in isolation and quarantine and, notably, protects the health of people who might otherwise need hospital care for life-threatening alcohol withdrawal," SFDPH said in a statement."

OK...201 wants Jim Beam, full handle...302 ordered Grey Goose...give him the Popov in the Grey Goose bottle...he'll never tell the difference...304 want a Long Island Iced Tea and an order of onion rings....

California!

[JohnDillworth]

If it did arrive and go unnoticed in December through February what does that imply about the measures implemented starting in March? If we make the presumption that it was here then we functioned just fine - the healthcare system barely noticed, and we didn’t force millions to suddenly become unemployed.

The health care system is not integrated. There might be 230 hospitals, 8 of which are government run and the other might be in groups of 1-10 hospitals. They may have all saw an increase in deaths and attributed them to the flu. The nursing homes did that. We functioned for a while, but it got uncontrollable soon enough. Once it reached a certain critical mass the numbers doubled every 3 days. The exponential increase was impossible to miss or control. NYC is dense, in places unbelievably dense. We could not have continued to function without almost total and immediate lock-down. Once we acted it slowed down quickly, but if we open up again at where we were before we will have the same results. The surrounding suburbs are pretty bad too. We have an extensive transportation network. It tracked along that and infected the suburbs. Other parts of the country may fare better but cities are tough to manage and the country can't do without those cities. If places are lax and this thing gets a foothold it is the devil to beat back. NYC will just have to change and learn to live alongside this thing. If anybody thinks this thing is just going to go away some day I suspect they are mistaken. As for a vaccine? Maybe, but if we get one in the next 3 years it would be the fastest vaccine ever. 90% of new drugs fail clinical trials and vaccines are among the most complicated of drugs. Yes, there are 100+ trials. Most, if not all of them, will fail. Most will do nothing. Some will have unacceptable side effects. Some may partially work. Some may cause other problems down the line. And maybe, just maybe, one will work. And then the hard part starts. Manufacturing it in large quantities. Nobody is building a factory until they know their vaccine works. And even then there are moral dilemmas. What if we have, say 500,000 does the first year? Who gets those? Me? You? Hmmmmmmm, I suspect not

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

ORIGINAL: obvert

I'm posting this not as an attack but because I feel based on all of the evidence over the past nearly four months, South Korea is the model to follow until a vaccine is developed (if that ever does get developed successfully).

It's simply a coincidence that the first known case in the US was nearly at the same time as the first in South Korea. From what I've heard now about cases being active in France in December and in NY in January. I think many more cases were active in the US in these early months than we now know, growing fast and with stealth in less vulnerable populations.

The difference in the US and Korean methods of reaction are not due to just a difference in the situation or the populace and habits. We've know this for a while from our local there Commander Cody. This means though that every country could do what they're doing. We just have to do it.

This article expounds on their methods and the reason they were so ready for this pandemic.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... et/611215/

In the time that South Korea righted its course, the United States veered into disaster. In mid-March, the U.S. and South Korea had the same number of coronavirus-caused fatalities—approximately 90. In April, South Korea lost a total of 85 souls to COVID-19, while the U.S. lost 62,000—an average of 85 deaths every hour. That the U.S. population is approximately six times larger than South Korea’s does little to soften the horror of the comparison.

Juxtaposing the South Korean response with the American tragedy, some commentators have chalked up the difference to an ancient culture of docile collectivism and Confucianism across the Pacific. This observation isn’t just racist. It also exoticizes South Korea’s success and makes it seem like the inevitable result of millennia of cultural accretion, rather than something the U.S., or any other country, can learn from right now. The truth is that the Korean government and its citizens did something simple, admirable, and all too rare: They suffered from history, and they learned from it.

Yes, Freedom comes with consequences and risks.

I, for one, hope we never become obedient drones.


and p.s.....if you felt the need to qualify up front that your weren't engaging in an attack then you probably were......

Right on cue.

Your national stereotyping quickly confirms the need for this report. And my qualification of why I dared post it here.

Thanks again for sharing your self-proclaimed "correct" view, Hans. [;)]

Clueless again I see.

Yes, I did indeed stereotype my own nation as consisting of disobedient free thinkers who are brought up to question and defy authority.

That's why we fought a war to separate from the country you live in now.....study a little history.

And where exactly did I state my view is the correct one?

You are almost as bad as BBfanboy with your inferences.

[Macclan5]

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

What the South Koreans did right:

1) Well organized game plan and DEDICATED, trained personnel ready on day 1

2) Effective testing roll-out

3) Top-down authoritarian measures not questioned

4) Tremendous geographic advantages

Concur in essence

A lot of press about the differences between Canada and the USA ; close geographic partners - similar population density ( with notable exceptions) - etc

The differences in rates are being 'politicized' somewhat depending upon your view - sadly.

Actually Canadian Broadcasting Corporation published a reasonably balanced scientific analysis ( and even in Canada some claim the CBC is politicized). I wont link it here - it does contain some political anecdotal evidence - but you can google it if you really need to: CBC Canada vs US Covid.

Some of the key findings:

1) Death rates per million are more accurate because testing is not uniform (even with States or Provinces - forget Nations)

2) New York getting hit early significantly skews the American Experience. Population density. I quote:

Without the Big Apple, the Canada-U.S. gap looks very different. Nearly half the difference disappears. Move beyond the suburbs of New York, and the Canada-U.S. death rates are even closer.
In fact, the death rate from COVID-19 is nearly identical between Canada and the 47 U.S. states that do not include a New York City suburb, based on state- and county-level data compiled by the site Worldometer.
Such comparisons are statistically dicey, however, because excluding one sub-national region distorts a country's demographics and urban-rural mix.


3) Pre-existing medical conditions are a significant factor. I quote.

A report just released by the U.S. Centers For Disease Control found nearly three-quarters of those hospitalized in Georgia had pre-existing conditions believed to make COVID-19 more severe.

Hypertension was the most prevalent pre-existing health problem among people in the Georgia study: about 67.5 per cent had high blood pressure. Severe obesity was also on the list.

The U.S. has by far the highest obesity rate in the developed world and slightly higher rates of hypertension than Canada.

4) The impoverished / racial minorities / elderly suffer proportionately more

Certainly in a Georgia study quoted - but even in Canada with our National Healthcare. Minorities impoverished people elderly -lack access to the same first class heath care facilities found in our urban centers for a variety of political and NON political reasons.

[Canoerebel]

Thanks, Macclan. That made interesting reading.

It make sense that mortality/million may be the best measure, even though it too is imperfect.

The US indeed seems to have an obesity issue (*cough*). And there's no doubt the comorbidity and age have been the driving factors in Georgia's mortality.

[22sec]

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

If it did arrive and go unnoticed in December through February what does that imply about the measures implemented starting in March? If we make the presumption that it was here then we functioned just fine - the healthcare system barely noticed, and we didn’t force millions to suddenly become unemployed.

The health care system is not integrated. There might be 230 hospitals, 8 of which are government run and the other might be in groups of 1-10 hospitals. They may have all saw an increase in deaths and attributed them to the flu. The nursing homes did that. We functioned for a while, but it got uncontrollable soon enough. Once it reached a certain critical mass the numbers doubled every 3 days. The exponential increase was impossible to miss or control. NYC is dense, in places unbelievably dense. We could not have continued to function without almost total and immediate lock-down. Once we acted it slowed down quickly, but if we open up again at where we were before we will have the same results. The surrounding suburbs are pretty bad too. We have an extensive transportation network. It tracked along that and infected the suburbs. Other parts of the country may fare better but cities are tough to manage and the country can't do without those cities. If places are lax and this thing gets a foothold it is the devil to beat back. NYC will just have to change and learn to live alongside this thing. If anybody thinks this thing is just going to go away some day I suspect they are mistaken. As for a vaccine? Maybe, but if we get one in the next 3 years it would be the fastest vaccine ever. 90% of new drugs fail clinical trials and vaccines are among the most complicated of drugs. Yes, there are 100+ trials. Most, if not all of them, will fail. Most will do nothing. Some will have unacceptable side effects. Some may partially work. Some may cause other problems down the line. And maybe, just maybe, one will work. And then the hard part starts. Manufacturing it in large quantities. Nobody is building a factory until they know their vaccine works. And even then there are moral dilemmas. What if we have, say 500,000 does the first year? Who gets those? Me? You? Hmmmmmmm, I suspect not

Thank you John for sharing.

[Canoerebel]

Here's a link to the Canadian News Network story referred to by Macclan, above: https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/covid-19- ... -1.5553168

I disagree with a bit of the analysis and a few of the conclusions, but overall it's a very good overview. I haven't seen much if anything else like this from major media sources.

[Canoerebel]

Covid stats from Washington and Tennessee may serve as a microcosm of the situation in the USA and reflect what forumites like John Dillworth have been writing today.

Washington and Tennessee have similar populations (13th and 15th, respectively). They've had a similar number of Covid cases.

But there are two major differences: Washington was hit much earlier, and Washington has had considerably more deaths (see chart, below).

Washington was the first major virus target. It arrived unexpectedly and got into a nursing home before the authorities and health community really knew what was happening and how best to react. It got bushwhacked and paid a heavy early price.

Tennessee didn't get bushwhacked. It had time to implement countermeasures that apparently have been effective. It hasn't had major outbreaks in nursing homes, to my knowledge. It's death toll has been consistently low.

Washington clamped down and is consistently dropping in rankings for number of cases and mortality per capita.

The ambush in Washington is somewhat analogous to what John Dillworth described in New York City. Most of the rest of the country (not all of it) is much more similar to Tennessee.

[Lowpe]

Here is updated influenza comparison in New York State.

https://nyshc.health.ny.gov/web/nyapd/n ... lu-tracker

[Lowpe]

I feel so bad for New York...I have no clue how a high tax & high cost of living state like New York will be able to recover. I hope I am proved wrong. Note that August 20 is when landlords could start the eviction process. How are landlords going to meet their payments? One cascading problem after another.


Cuomo: No one in New York can be evicted for not paying rent until August 20

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/andrew-cuo ... august-20/

[fcooke]

Probably cannot 'start' the eviction process till then, and in NY it takes about about a year for the process to work through the system. Most people will do what they can to 'be fair', but sadly some will take advantage of the situation if my experience is any guideline.....

[fcooke]

For clarity - as in stiff the landlord for as long as possible.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: fcooke

Probably cannot 'start' the eviction process till then, and in NY it takes about about a year for the process to work through the system. Most people will do what they can to 'be fair', but sadly some will take advantage of the situation if my experience is any guideline.....

You are correct.

I shudder think of all the fraud that is going on. I am friends with a banker, and the rush to provide payroll loans was a conman's dream come true according to him.

[JohnDillworth]

Probably cannot 'start' the eviction process till then, and in NY it takes about about a year for the process to work through the system. Most people will do what they can to 'be fair', but sadly some will take advantage of the situation if my experience is any guideline.....

The landlords will get to keep the one month security deposit but I doubt the back rent will be forgiven or paid for. The owners of those buildings pay property tax, water and sewer charges ect, and in many cases, the mortgage on the building. So if they don't get their rent paid they cant pay the city and the bank. There will be no free rent and no forgiveness. So if people can't pay, they will be evicted. In the short run, rents will drop but there will be no problem filling up vacant apartments. It is, after all NYC. Finance, retail, health care, education, professional services remain and will restart. Tourism is another big business and that will come back too. It will just take a bit longer. NYC is about 5-7 billion in the hole. That's bad. NYC has to balance it's budget each year. That's the law. So, lots of pain to balance the budget this year and next. Particularly with the battered tax base. The good news? The balanced budget amendment. NYC started the year with no debt so there is no previous hole to dig out of. So if any tells you that they don't want to pay for years of bad decisions they don't know what they hell they are talking about. The budget balances each year. Lately, there has been a surplus. The state is a slightly different story but NY pays much more to the Federal Government than it revives back. In the long run NYC will be fine, but there will be a few rough years ahead. I may well be one of the casualties of those bad times but I was going to retire in a couple of years anyway. I have a good civil service title and all the protections that affords so they would have to cut pretty deep to get to me but who knows. We have never been here before in my time

[MakeeLearn]

Beijing opens financial markets further amid tension with Washington
7 May 2020

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/wires/reu ... ngton.html


"SHANGHAI, May 7 (Reuters) - China finalised rules on Thursday that would scrap quotas under two major inbound investment schemes, giving qualified foreign institutions unlimited access to Chinese stocks and bonds in the latest step to open the country's financial industry."

[sPzAbt653]

Thanks to Lowpe for providing the link, I've broken it down into the highlights below.

Jan. 25 - Domestic flights from Hubei to other parts of China were stopped.
Jan. 31 - Italy closed all flights to and from China.
Feb. 2 - The Civil Aviation Administration of China stated “In order to meet the needs of passengers in and out of the country and the international transport of supplies during this special period … airlines [are required to] … continue transport to nations that have not imposed travel restrictions.”
Feb. 3 - The WHO chief Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said ”There is no reason for measures that unnecessarily interfere with international travel and trade”.
Mar. 11 - The WHO declared COVID-19 a global pandemic.
Mar. 27 - Chinese President Xi Jinping agreed to curb international flights from China by 90%.
In the month of April most nations went under lockdown. This was two months after China went in for a domestic lock down and allowed the virus to proliferate to international destinations through human contact. China’s diabolic international travel policy ?
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/bl ... gn-travel/

My take on all of this - The rest of the world had plenty of indications, if not warnings, of a serious issue. Italy reacted on Jan. 31, others waited two months for whatever reason. I'm certainly no fan of China, as the saying goes 'Don't trust China, China is asshole', but it seems incorrect for someone to blame China for International Flights while knowingly accepting these flights into their own country.

[sPzAbt653]

Thanks again to Lowpe for the link. This stuff is far more condemning of the Chinese.

Jan. 14 & 15 - Chinese officials received confidential instructions from President Xi, and all regions were warned to “prepare for and respond to a pandemic”.
Jan. 24 to Feb. 29 - China imported 2.5 billion pieces of epidemic safety equipment, including over two billion safety masks.
https://globalnews.ca/news/6858818/coro ... um=Twitter

Right or Wrong is up to the individual to decide, but it wasn't negligence or incompetence. China knew what it was doing as far as buying up all the PPE. Just like my beighbor knew what they were doing when they bought up all the toilet paper *dick* !