The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

[Canoerebel]

I know that there are players out there who know everything about everything. We stand in awe of them.

But this discussion illustrates the massive complexity of this game. There are a bunch of very smart people with a ton of AE/WitP/UV experience chiming in here, and all of us are just that little bit uncertain exactly how things work. Some of us are nearly positive we know, but we're not certain we know, because we keep learning that things we knew weren't quite right or that there are better ways to do them.

Thank goodness for the complexity! It keeps us guessing a bit. I think it's probably more fun to be a 95% player than a 100% player who knows everything and has the game reduced to a mathmatical formula. I hereby proudly declare that I am one fo the 90% (I'm not at 95%) by my own reckoning. I love a dash of uncertainty. Sort of. When my carriers aren't at risk, anyhow.

[pws1225]

Thank God gay marriage is not modeled in the game.

[:'(]

[Canoerebel]

Gay marriage is modeled in the game. My opponent claims his wife is named Paula. It's a ruse. His wife is actually named Paul. Rue Paul.

[Cap Mandrake]

Based on CR's "mouse droppings" I have now revised my prediction and it is not even close to Sakhalin.[:D]

I think he is going to land at Wolei, Yap and Beazelbub/Pelielu..then sweep west to Ternate, Manado, Tailud-Eilanden, Mindanao, Jolo, and..
eventually Luzon which begins to make transit south of Formosa dangerous. There are numerous medium sized base with 2-3-4 AF and numerous place buildable for heavies.

[Anachro]

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

When the "Good Book" is silent on the matter and nobody can compel Saint Michael to come out of his hermit cave and issue a gospel on the matter.

Don't forget Prophet Alfred.

[Cap Mandrake]

Wait a minute...Rue Paul is gay?

[poodlebrain]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I know that there are players out there who know everything about everything. We stand in awe of them.

But this discussion illustrates the massive complexity of this game. There are a bunch of very smart people with a ton of AE/WitP/UV experience chiming in here, and all of us are just that little bit uncertain exactly how things work. Some of us are nearly positive we know, but we're not certain we know, because we keep learning that things we knew weren't quite right or that there are better ways to do them.

Thank goodness for the complexity! It keeps us guessing a bit. I think it's probably more fun to be a 95% player than a 100% player who knows everything and has the game reduced to a mathmatical formula. I hereby proudly declare that I am one fo the 90% (I'm not at 95%) by my own reckoning. I love a dash of uncertainty. Sort of. When my carriers aren't at risk, anyhow.

Uh oh, now we are discussing the various games within the game. It is natural for players to want to know how to minimize their risks. The uncertainty surrounding aspects of the game mechanics reduces player confidence that his intended actions will occur.

I hate the uncertainty, but I like having that uncertainty as an excuse for all bad outcomes. Losing those ships wasn't my fault. The game mechanics conspired against me.

One of the benefits of these message boards is the sharing of empirical evidence of methods for dealing with the uncertainties. Eliminating catastrophic mistakes that decide the outcome of the game makes for a better gaming experience. Being able to learn from the mistakes of others is the sign of a wise person, and I know I benefit from these types of discussions.

[Cap Mandrake]

ORIGINAL: Anachro

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

When the "Good Book" is silent on the matter and nobody can compel Saint Michael to come out of his hermit cave and issue a gospel on the matter.

Don't forget Prophet Alfred.

Yes...we may well see a parting of the heavens, a flash of light and hear the booming voice of the
Prophet (PBUH,UAW,BPOE)......"Though shalt not conduct reconnaissance flights beyond a 12 hex radius!"

Multitudes: Tell us why not, oh great Prophet (PBUH,IBEW,UNHCR)! The G3M2 has a range of 18 hexes.

Prophet (PBUH,UAW,BPOE): Look at geometry you retards. That's nearly 500 miles from the center of the search arc. Do you have any idea how broad the 10 degree arc is at that range?

Multitudes: THANK YOU OH GREAT ONE! [&o][&o][&o]

[JohnDillworth]

I have no other evidence except this works for me. TBF's at 3000 ft 10% search 10% ASW range 1 or 2 hexes and ASW ships work much much better

[Canoerebel]

11/3/43

Big Tent: The herd moves four hexes to the NW on a setting that avoids contact with enemy subs. But a group of about four supply TFs got left behind in the open and came under attack by Jills from Eniwetok. Five xAK were hit hard, four of them sinking.

The herd is now 59 hexes out of Pearl and 25 from the first beach. Despite the culling by the Jills, the group is drawing tighter and is one or two more days from being in final form. The herd will move three hexes west tomorrow. The furthest back TF is some TKs at seven hexes. They'll catch up in two days. Then the ships will proceed at five hexes per day. So D-Day is projected as 11/9.

As expected, some TFs will be left behind - these were late additions, diverted from other missions. These incldue on AKE, some supply xAKs, and the transport TF originally carrying a base force to Pago Pago. These TFs will halt at Wake, just in case the main mission ultimately diverts to Eniwetok. If not, they'll unload some supply and then retire to Pearl.

It's been a bloody two days, but the real danger commences now as the herd approaches Truk and the Marianas. Will John commit KB? All planning is on the assumption that he could or will, but I actually don't think he will. I think he'll keep them in position to strike at an opportune moment, but will be reluctant to pull the trigger until things are "just right." My job is to (hopefully) keep him just a little bit uncertain until the most dangerous stretch of ocean has been crossed.

USN sub Rasher picked off an xAK near Saipan. Also, John's email indicated that "he thought" he knew the target, but was no longer sure. I think he was guessing "Eniwetok."

No disturbing SigInt today. There is shipping at Lae and Madang. The Marianas are strongly garrisoned with lots of aircraft present. Most of his ships have departed Eniwetok, but there is still one TF present.

Lion Tamer: Unopposed landings at Tanna today. It is possible that IJN CVL TF seen near Tulagia a few days back is close to reaching this theater. I only have a couple of small amphibious TFs present, so the risk isn't great. For now, I'll continue to attend to small amphibious landings against undefended bases and dot hexes. Any CVL drawn way down here to pick off an xAK or xAP or two is a CVL not present for duty where a decisive campaign is underway.

[Bullwinkle58]

Have you done all your ASW upgrades? Your sub troubles in very late 1943 do not match my experiences.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Commander Cody, Death Star was in the same hex (131,100).

Thanks, Loka, for the suggestions. I had already bumped up CAP to 50%. Next turn, I'll remove the 10% rest. Then I'll divide my fighters into two groups: some at a high percentage with range zero (CAP) only [this will include the Corsairs, as NYGiants suggested several days ago) the rest at 0% CAP with range 6 (these to escort bombers).

For what its worth, the settings during the Great Naval Battle were 50% CAP, no rest %, and range 6 for all fighter squadrons (except those few squadrons with lower ranges).

These settings can definitely work, and in terms of function for a CV battle only (i.e., all your guys in the same hex or maybe even just 1 hex apart) are pretty close to having dedicated units for escort and for CAP. The only difference is fatigue - the pilots will get worn out faster. Perhaps having a completely overfull pilot list would mitigate that a bit, but the extra fatigue from a CAP range higher than 1 or 2 makes me balk in general.

I'd be wary of dropping the altitude too much - torpedo bombers can still come in at 25K or 35K feet and then teleport down to wavetop to drop torpedoes. However, you really only need to worry about LBA there, as I doubt John would risk a KB strike getting split up due to altitude so they will all likely be between 10K and 17K feet (because of dive bombers). A mix of altitudes between 8-20K is my preferred if I'm going to be facing off against CVs. I might drop to 6K if I think TBs might come in at 5.

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Wait a minute. Am I to understand that a carrier fighter squadron set to "escort" and let's say 40% CAP will NOT fly escort with the non-CAP planes of the squadron if the opportunity arises?
I don't think that is true. I think the AI assigns them to strike missions if it decides to go after a target. I am 99% sure I have seen a carrier with 1 fighter squadron perform both duties in the same turn.

Neither do I believe that the 40% CAP means that 40% of the squadron is up in the air with the other 60% waiting to scramble. My recollection is that the 40% is the maximum allotment to CAP with the planes cycled back to the AF or the carrier to refuel, rearm.

Lastly, I'm not sure I believe this business about "CAP range". The range setting is for strike/escort missions.

On the other hand, I have read about 2.5% of the manual. [:)]

Yes, you should check the documentation on the range setting.

With Range 0, no escorts will be launched. With Range 6, CAP will attempt to respond to any enemy air strikes within 6 hexes of the hex they are providing CAP for (the CV/base in the case of CAP, or the target hex in the case of LRCAP). Any pilots not set to CAP/LRCAP/training/rest will also attempt to escort any strikes within that range setting. This is the prime reason I do not use CAP 50% and Range 6/7/8.

Having dedicated CAP units also allows me to put all of my Corsairs on CAP with the best of the best pilots, while the Hellcats escort and merely have really good pilots.


The best way to spot subs with planes is with ASW, not search (though search will detect them sometimes).

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Based on CR's "mouse droppings" I have now revised my prediction and it is not even close to Sakhalin.[:D]

I think he is going to land at Wolei, Yap and Beazelbub/Pelielu..then sweep west to Ternate, Manado, Tailud-Eilanden, Mindanao, Jolo, and..
eventually Luzon which begins to make transit south of Formosa dangerous. There are numerous medium sized base with 2-3-4 AF and numerous place buildable for heavies.

When he first gave us the distance from Pearl and distance to target, and that an atoll was involved, I updated my personal bet to Ulithi as the atoll, and Babeldaob as one of the main targets. From there, what the main targets are can vary a little bit, but I would guess it's either Mindanao or just south of it, and perhaps a mix of both.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Wait a minute. Am I to understand that a carrier fighter squadron set to "escort" and let's say 40% CAP will NOT fly escort with the non-CAP planes of the squadron if the opportunity arises?
I don't think that is true. I think the AI assigns them to strike missions if it decides to go after a target. I am 99% sure I have seen a carrier with 1 fighter squadron perform both duties in the same turn.

Neither do I believe that the 40% CAP means that 40% of the squadron is up in the air with the other 60% waiting to scramble. My recollection is that the 40% is the maximum allotment to CAP with the planes cycled back to the AF or the carrier to refuel, rearm.

Lastly, I'm not sure I believe this business about "CAP range". The range setting is for strike/escort missions.

On the other hand, I have read about 2.5% of the manual. [:)]

About eight years ago a forumite, whose name I have misplaced, set me straight with one of those light-bulb moments. I was thrashing around on CAP settings and he said, paraphrasing: "There's no CAP mission type. There's only an Escort mission type, and then a lot of percentages. So CAP is 'not-Escort'. It's what's left over."

That said, as Loka said, Range is the critical button. The Range button first looks at the mission type that's ordered. If it's Escort it tries to escort strikes to the Range max. (If your DBs are at Naval Attack, Range=6 and your Hellcats are Escort, Range = 4, the DBs fly alone the last two hexes.) But if you spin in 40% CAP, say, then the code sets aside 40% of the fighters for CAP, but AT THE SAME RANGE AS THE STRIKE ESCORT. Often this is a fatal mistake. CAP at Range 6 or 7 will try to do CAP, but it will be tissue-paper thin, and the altitude will have to match the Strike Escort portion.

Loka's solution is the best one I've seen, provided you have enough fighters to do the job (s). Pure CAP squadron(s), and pure Escort squadrons. Each with their own Ranges, each with their own altitudes. It can get funky when you mix plane models, when you mix CVs with CVLs and CVEs, etc. But it's best to specialize rather than trying to make a fighter unit wear multiple hats.

[Cap Mandrake]

Well, that is two votes vs 1. I am persuaded.[:)] I had accidentally swerved into Lokasena's idea by chopping the range down on the best fighters to keep them on cap and not escort but I will try the dedicated escort v. CAP idea.

[Canoerebel]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Have you done all your ASW upgrades? Your sub troubles in very late 1943 do not match my experiences.

All my ASW platforms (DE, PF, SC, AM) are upgraded. And my fleet is mostly upgraded. The carriers are about 2/3rd upgraded, with half the fleet flattops just completed while the other half are due for 10/43.

[Canoerebel]

You guys offer lots of helpful information. And you're patient with me. Thanks.

There have been lots of guesses as to targets, ranging from Sikhalin Island to the Philippines to the Solomons. Since the first target is now about 25 hexes away, things are going to become much clearer in the few days.

And then I get to reveal Eldorado. I've built that up to a big thing, but I really shouldn't. Under certain circumstances it would be vital. But under the particular circumstances of this op, I don't think it will be quite as snazzy. I think the target hexes are so vulnerable that the need for Eldorado is dampened just a bit. But it's still fun.

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Have you done all your ASW upgrades? Your sub troubles in very late 1943 do not match my experiences.

All my ASW platforms (DE, PF, SC, AM) are upgraded. And my fleet is mostly upgraded. The carriers are about 2/3rd upgraded, with half the fleet flattops just completed while the other half are due for 10/43.

Are your cruisers escorting your carriers using their float planes for Nav search or ASW?

I always assign mine to ASW.

[Canoerebel]

Mine are split between both duties, some doing the one, others doing the other.

[jwolf]

Also, John's email indicated that "he thought" he knew the target, but was no longer sure. I think he was guessing "Eniwetok."

By this time I assume (??) he has seen enough TFs to get a sense of the scale of the operation and that it is much bigger than Eniwetok or any one target.