Lunacy or Shrewdness?

[Rob Brennan UK]

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

ORIGINAL: jolly_pillager

Against the Japanese CAP the elite American Nay pilots score 4 Zeros shot down against a loss of 38 F4F's and 128 SBD's? (granted flak losses are mixed up in there...but still)

This is the reason that I will never play a stock scenario again.[8|]

Oh, and to avoid being called a fanboy, the kamikaze test that someone did a while back that resulted in 3000 Japanese losses for negligable damage is just as bad.

Can you believe that when I stated there was a uber CAP issue since UV when WITP was still in Beta I was told I was imagining things?[8|][:D]

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: Rob Brennan UK

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

ORIGINAL: jolly_pillager

Against the Japanese CAP the elite American Nay pilots score 4 Zeros shot down against a loss of 38 F4F's and 128 SBD's? (granted flak losses are mixed up in there...but still)

This is the reason that I will never play a stock scenario again.[8|]

Oh, and to avoid being called a fanboy, the kamikaze test that someone did a while back that resulted in 3000 Japanese losses for negligable damage is just as bad.

Can you believe that when I stated there was a uber CAP issue since UV when WITP was still in Beta I was told I was imagining things?[8|][:D]

Huge arguement on the public forums somewhere.

[Sneer]

lucky you Nemo
considering force deployment and time it was allied gift to you

[Nemo121]

Sneer,

Hmm, well it turned out well but I think it was a chance worth taking for the Allies. He was facing 2 CV and 3 CVL with 5 x CV. So, he was facing 72 x 2, 30 x 2 and 48 x 1 = 250 IJN planes with 90 x 5 = 450 USN planes under cover of his own LBA. I think that looks like a pretty good match-up. I'd certainly take it as the Allies, hell, I took a battle where 240 USN planes went up against over 400 IJN planes in December '41 . I suppose it is easy, after the fact, to decry a decision to commit to action but looking at the numbers things looked pretty good for the USN IMO.

I am moving southward to try and catch the escorts of the Palmyra invasion and, perhaps, some of the APs. Here's the turn:

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 04/05/42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 129 troops unloading over beach at Adak Island, 98,36


Japanese ground losses:
51 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 135 troops unloading over beach at Atka Island, 98,37


Japanese ground losses:
22 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 129 troops unloading over beach at Adak Island, 98,36


Japanese ground losses:
36 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 135 troops unloading over beach at Atka Island, 98,37


Japanese ground losses:
54 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 80th Chinese Corps, at 45,35

Japanese aircraft
Ki-27 Nate x 10
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 10
Ki-15 Babs x 2

No Japanese losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 9th Base Force, at 28,77


Allied aircraft
Hudson I x 37


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
54 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Adak Island at 98,36


Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 3


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AP Anrugu Maru

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Atka Island at 98,37


Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 3


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AP Daihachikyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Japanese ground losses:
18 casualties reported

I'm attacking these islands with just a single BF on a single AP in an effort to hide the fact that I'll be moving a regiment of troops into each island later. If I can tempt the Allies into an invasion with less than a divisional force I should be able to do a great deal of damage on both the way in and the way out.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 107,75

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 6
D3A Val x 28
B5N Kate x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A Val: 3 destroyed, 22 damaged

Allied Ships
CA Northampton, Bomb hits 3, on fire
CL Concord
CL Phoenix, Bomb hits 2, on fire
CA Chester
CA New Orleans

It looks like I've caught the Palmyra bombardment TF in mid-ocean. Unfortunately my Val and Kate squadrons have taken too many losses and are too fatigued to achieve any decisive results but a couple of CAs get moderately damaged and the CL Phoenix should require a couple of months in the repair yards.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 107,75

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 2
B5N Kate x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N Kate: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
CL Phoenix, on fire

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 107,75

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 4
D3A Val x 33

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A Val: 9 destroyed, 15 damaged

Allied Ships
CA Chester, Bomb hits 4, on fire
CL Concord
CA San Francisco
CA Astoria, Bomb hits 2
CA Portland, Bomb hits 1

At day's end I decide to move 180 miles toward the bombardment TF in order to deliver follow-on strikes to the Chester and Northampton, both of which suffered penetrating, damaging hits. I am also moving cautiously since my recon shows 2 US CVs at Pearl Harbour and another 3 in a TF which appears to be sortieing to cover the bombardment TF.

I know the Americans should probably have 3 CVs so it is possible that the TF moving towards the bombardment TF is a fighter-heavy TF with everything set on 90% CAP in order to provide cover to the bombardment TF... The Allies really mustn't want to lose these CAs. Unfortunately my Val squadrons and Kate squadron are badly depleted. None is at more than 50% strength and one of the 24 plane Daitai has been reduced to just 4 planes, 3 of which are currently under repair. One other Daitai, while disposing more planes, is currently not able to put a single plane in the air as all have been damaged. None of my strike Daitai have morale above 60 and several have morale in the 20s. So, basically, I have too few planes and my pilots are far too fatigued to go up against a US CV TF at this stage.

On the off chance that this is an offensively minded US CV TF I have flown in my last ready-reserve Zero Daitai from Midway and have added its strength to my CAP. All but one of my fighter daitais is of good strength and morale and that daitai will be sent back to Midway to rebuild next turn. I'm just holding onto it for one more turn in order to see what that US TF does.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 22,13

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 2080 troops, 0 guns, 129 vehicles, Assault Value = 66

Defending force 2058 troops, 16 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 40

Japanese max assault: 124 - adjusted assault: 118

Allied max defense: 36 - adjusted defense: 12

Japanese assault odds: 9 to 1


Japanese ground losses:
9 casualties reported
Vehicles lost 1

Allied ground losses:
14 casualties reported


Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 40,34

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 129938 troops, 901 guns, 425 vehicles, Assault Value = 2057

Defending force 858 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 19

Japanese max assault: 3834 - adjusted assault: 3230

Allied max defense: 16 - adjusted defense: 1

Japanese assault odds: 3230 to 1


Japanese ground losses:
20 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Allied ground losses:
307 casualties reported


Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Chungking

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 229485 troops, 2611 guns, 25 vehicles, Assault Value = 5308

Defending force 189752 troops, 1253 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 4368



Allied ground losses:
108 casualties reported


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 45,35

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 10372 troops, 318 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1738

Defending force 68821 troops, 21 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1773



Allied ground losses:
234 casualties reported


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Nanning

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 15101 troops, 205 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 269

Defending force 0 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 0

Japanese max assault: 272 - adjusted assault: 243

Allied max defense: 0 - adjusted defense: 1

Japanese assault odds: 243 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Nanning base !!!

Nanning falls. The Kwantung/Burma railroad is now cleared of Chinese troops.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 24,21

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 2166 troops, 0 guns, 142 vehicles, Assault Value = 80

Defending force 5439 troops, 35 guns, 3 vehicles, Assault Value = 36

Japanese max assault: 138 - adjusted assault: 61

Allied max defense: 32 - adjusted defense: 23

Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1


Japanese ground losses:
21 casualties reported
Vehicles lost 2

Allied ground losses:
1 casualties reported


Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 23,47

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 5344 troops, 182 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 55

Defending force 2250 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 2



Allied ground losses:
9 casualties reported


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Chungking

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 125422 troops, 1081 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 4368

Defending force 268687 troops, 2611 guns, 137 vehicles, Assault Value = 5308


Japanese ground losses:
265 casualties reported
Guns lost 9


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 43,31

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 28414 troops, 191 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 523

Defending force 41836 troops, 477 guns, 12 vehicles, Assault Value = 918



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 45,35

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 37268 troops, 21 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1759

Defending force 93411 troops, 1305 guns, 12 vehicles, Assault Value = 1738



Allied ground losses:
9 casualties reported
Guns lost 2


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Lahore

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 8510 troops, 119 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 198

Defending force 122 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 7

Allied max assault: 302 - adjusted assault: 166

Japanese max defense: 6 - adjusted defense: 11

Allied assault odds: 15 to 1 (fort level 0)

Allied forces CAPTURE Lahore base !!!


Japanese ground losses:
9 casualties reported

Allied ground losses:
4 casualties reported


Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!


In the picture below you can see my main CV TF ( 4 CVs) sneaking closer and closer to Derby. So far the Allies haven't caught sight of it. If they still don't catch sight of it tomorrow I will launch fighter sweeps and airfield attacks plus a bombardment TF at them the day after. If they do catch sight of it then, at all costs, I will avoid airfield attacks by my Vals and Kates and concentrate, instead, on drawing the enemy bombers and fighters onto KB's CAP and seeking to force the merchants to scatter so they will be easy pickings for my forces. I'm also racing engineers and a BF to Koepang in order to re-open it and begin a Betty-led reign of terror in the seas surrounding Derby.

[Nemo121]

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 04/06/42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 129 troops unloading over beach at Adak Island, 98,36


Japanese ground losses:
14 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 135 troops unloading over beach at Atka Island, 98,37


My two engineer Bns are unloading at Adak and Atka Island. These should fall in the next day or two.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Derby at 24,85

Japanese Ships
BB Haruna, Shell hits 2
CA Tone
DD Asashio

Allied Ships
AK Delawarean
AK Oklahoman
AK Virginian
AK Santa Elisa
AK Steel Engineer
AK Steel Traveler
AK Edgar Luckenbach
AK Edward Luckenbach
AK F.J.Luckenbach
AK Empire Success

Ah yes, a super-effective Japanese naval action. BB, CA and escort face helpless merchant ships. End result, BB gets hit a couple of times. Merchant ships escape unscathed . Talk about questionable.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Derby, at 24,85


Allied aircraft
no flights


Allied aircraft losses
Hudson I: 2 destroyed
Kittyhawk I: 2 destroyed
Wirraway: 1 destroyed

Japanese Ships
CA Tone
BB Haruna


Allied ground losses:
184 casualties reported
Guns lost 4
Vehicles lost 2

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 6

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Derby, at 24,85


Allied aircraft
no flights


Allied aircraft losses
Hudson I: 1 destroyed
Kittyhawk I: 2 destroyed
Wirraway: 1 destroyed

Japanese Ships
CA Ashigara
BB Kongo


Allied ground losses:
174 casualties reported
Guns lost 2
Vehicles lost 2

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 9

So, very little return on my investment but that's probably because I couldn't run recon into Derby beforehand since it would have tipped my hand.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack at 15,16

Japanese Ships
APD APD-46
APD APD-39
APD APD-38
APD APD-37
APD APD-36
APD APD-35
APD APD-33
APD APD-31
APD APD-2

Allied Ships
SS KXIV, hits 31, on fire, heavy damage

These APDs simply ran over K-XIV by mistake and sank it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Chungking , at 43,32

Japanese aircraft
Ki-27 Nate x 34
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 108
Ki-21 Sally x 27
Ki-48 Lily x 75
Ki-49 Helen x 61

Allied aircraft
I-153c x 1
I-16c x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-Ib Oscar: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
Ki-48 Lily: 1 damaged
Ki-49 Helen: 2 destroyed, 4 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
I-153c: 1 destroyed
I-16c: 2 damaged


Allied ground losses:
61 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 10
Airbase supply hits 18
Runway hits 106

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Koepang , at 28,77

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed
G4M1 Betty: 1 destroyed


Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 6

I'm using the carrier raid as cover for my real mission here, the re-establishment of Koepang as a viable base for future operations against Northern Australia. I want to establish a Zero and Helen nest there and draw the Allied bomber strength of Australia onto Koepang, where I can achieve a favourable exchange ratio. This will tend to draw aerial and ground forces northward where I can, should I so choose, invade, isolate and annihilate these forces in detail and is one of the ways in which I'm beginning to shape the battle for Australia which will follow during the 2nd half of 1942 in my favour.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 23rd Indian Division, at 23,13

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 42

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
11 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 11th Indian Air Base Force, at 25,16

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49 Helen x 46

No Japanese losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 27,80

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 18

Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk I x 7
Hudson I x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Kittyhawk I: 3 destroyed
Hudson I: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Haruna

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 27,80

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 8

Allied aircraft
Hudson I x 11

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Hudson I: 5 destroyed, 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Haruna

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 27,80

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 25

Allied aircraft
Hudson I x 17

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 3 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Hudson I: 7 destroyed, 3 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Haruna

These Hudson pilots are among the more experienced Allied pilots in the game and having them impale themselves, cheaply, on my carrier's CAP will help safeguard the invasion convoys which will come by ensuring they are facing far less experienced enemy pilots and thus face far less serious opposition.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 108,72

Japanese aircraft
B5N Kate x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N Kate: 2 damaged

Allied Ships
CA Northampton, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 108,72

Japanese aircraft
G3M Nell x 7
G4M1 Betty x 40

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M Nell: 2 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 12 damaged

Allied Ships
CA Northampton, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
CA Chester, Torpedo hits 5, on fire, heavy damage

Northampton and Chester are sunk.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 108,80

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 13
D3A Val x 10

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A Val: 2 damaged

Allied Ships
DD Case
DD Maury, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 108,80

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 3
D3A Val x 12

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A Val: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged

Allied Ships
DD Maury, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Ellet, Bomb hits 1, on fire

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 108,80

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 14
D3A Val x 9
B5N Kate x 13

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A Val: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
DD Ellet, Bomb hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
DD Maury, on fire, heavy damage
DD Case, Bomb hits 1

This group of 3 destroyers seems to have been making its way back to PH from Palmyra. They were moving very slowly ( 2 hexes per day) and so, I think, were abandoned as they were low on fuel. That's good play from Jutland13. Abandoning that which threatens the herd was the correct course of action. So, he's ruthless enough to cut and run and leave the cripples behind. That's an important piece of information to know when planning for the defensive battles of 1943/44.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 108,75

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 95

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 18
SBD Dauntless x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 16 destroyed
SBD Dauntless: 5 destroyed

Japanese Ships
CV Akagi

And it looks like the enemy carriers have come back for a 2nd bite of the cherry. Obviously Jutland13 thinks it is worth a second shot given the very high fatigue and low morale of my strike groups. In fact he does have a point as my strike groups are now, almost, completely ineffective.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 108,75

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 81

Allied aircraft
SBD Dauntless x 7

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
SBD Dauntless: 6 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 108,75

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 88

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 3
SBD Dauntless x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 2 destroyed
SBD Dauntless: 5 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 108,75

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 90

Allied aircraft
SBD Dauntless x 26

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 4 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
SBD Dauntless: 26 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Johnston Island at 102,74


Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 4
LB-30 Liberator x 33


Allied aircraft losses
LB-30 Liberator: 1 destroyed

Japanese Ships
AP Ueizuru Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AP Kokuryu Maru, Bomb hits 12, on fire, heavy damage
AP Kogane Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Shoto Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Saiho Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

Japanese ground losses:
781 casualties reported

The LB-30s refuse to sortie against KB and find a much easier target to strike. They do so with devastating effect but, to be fair, I have many men and many APs so I'm happy to lose them instead of losing a CVL to a few lucky level-bomber strikes.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 97,37


Allied aircraft
Blenheim I x 13


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AP Daihachikyo Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 108,72

Japanese aircraft
G3M Nell x 3

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
CA Northampton, on fire, heavy damage

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 110,71

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 28
D3A Val x 19
B5N Kate x 12

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 14
P-39D Airacobra x 1
P-40B Tomahawk x 3
P-40E Warhawk x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 11 destroyed, 1 damaged
D3A Val: 6 destroyed, 7 damaged
B5N Kate: 5 destroyed, 2 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 5 destroyed, 1 damaged
P-39D Airacobra: 4 destroyed
P-40B Tomahawk: 4 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 2 destroyed

Allied Ships
CV Hornet
CV Lexington, Bomb hits 1
CV Enterprise, Bomb hits 2, on fire

The Enterprise takes two solid hits. Lexington's hit doesn't penetrate the flight deck. It would appear that Hornet and Lexington are still almost fully operational but Enterprise's cumulative damage is sufficient to curb flight operations.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 23,13

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 2060 troops, 0 guns, 127 vehicles, Assault Value = 64

Defending force 4600 troops, 66 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 74

Japanese max assault: 120 - adjusted assault: 94

Allied max defense: 60 - adjusted defense: 12

Japanese assault odds: 7 to 1


Japanese ground losses:
69 casualties reported
Vehicles lost 4

Allied ground losses:
91 casualties reported
Guns lost 5


Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 45,35

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 93598 troops, 1314 guns, 12 vehicles, Assault Value = 1745

Defending force 68508 troops, 18 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1777



Allied ground losses:
286 casualties reported


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Chungking

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 229647 troops, 2592 guns, 25 vehicles, Assault Value = 5313

Defending force 189805 troops, 1259 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 4374



Allied ground losses:
113 casualties reported


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 25,21

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 2164 troops, 0 guns, 141 vehicles, Assault Value = 78

Defending force 4061 troops, 24 guns, 3 vehicles, Assault Value = 28

Japanese max assault: 136 - adjusted assault: 31

Allied max defense: 23 - adjusted defense: 7

Japanese assault odds: 4 to 1


Japanese ground losses:
7 casualties reported

Allied ground losses:
28 casualties reported
Guns lost 1


Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Chungking

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 125661 troops, 1087 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 4374

Defending force 268905 troops, 2592 guns, 138 vehicles, Assault Value = 5313


Japanese ground losses:
153 casualties reported
Guns lost 7


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Kunming

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 28243 troops, 27 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 818

Defending force 6657 troops, 7 guns, 428 vehicles, Assault Value = 233

Allied max assault: 1388 - adjusted assault: 784

Japanese max defense: 206 - adjusted defense: 31

Allied assault odds: 25 to 1


Japanese ground losses:
340 casualties reported
Guns lost 4
Vehicles lost 10

Allied ground losses:
1101 casualties reported
Guns lost 4


Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 43,31

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 28260 troops, 190 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 525

Defending force 41935 troops, 478 guns, 12 vehicles, Assault Value = 925


Japanese ground losses:
12 casualties reported


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 45,35

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 37191 troops, 18 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1760

Defending force 93598 troops, 1314 guns, 12 vehicles, Assault Value = 1745



Allied ground losses:
46 casualties reported
Guns lost 4


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Adak Island

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 1254 troops, 8 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 19

Defending force 0 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 0

Japanese max assault: 16 - adjusted assault: 6

Allied max defense: 0 - adjusted defense: 1

Japanese assault odds: 6 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Adak Island base !!!



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Atka Island

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 1152 troops, 8 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 15

Defending force 0 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 0

Japanese max assault: 24 - adjusted assault: 14

Allied max defense: 0 - adjusted defense: 1

Japanese assault odds: 14 to 1 (fort level 3)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Atka Island base !!!


Tomorrow I'm going to have to withdraw as my strike groups are now almost all down to 1/3rd strength. I will withdraw to the environs of Johnston Island, refuel from my replenishment group there and fly my strike groups to Midway for replenishment. Then I will move southward to Palmyra to cover the counter-invasion due in the next 4 days or so. My strike groups will return to the carriers via stop-overs at Johnston.

[mogami]

"Ah yes, a super-effective Japanese naval action. BB, CA and escort face helpless merchant ships. End result, BB gets hit a couple of times. Merchant ships escape unscathed . Talk about questionable"
 
Hi, Your BOMBARDMENT TF declined surface combat and continues with it's assigned mission. what is so questionable about that?  Bet you if you rerun the turn with TF changed into a SURFACE COMBAT TF it beats the crap out of the transports.  The transport TF is not looking to fight and neither is a bombardment TF. SURFACE COMBAT TF are always looking for a fight.

[Nemo121]

BB Haruna, Shell hits 2
 
What I was getting at was that this is the 2nd time in recent days we've seen BBs running into an AK, getting hit by a few of the AK's shells and not firing back. If you can show me an incident during the war in which this occurred ( either due to damage or due the BB being on a different mission) then I'd love to hear it. I'd be quite willing to bet that you will not be able to find a single instance of a BB refusing to fire on a merchant ship which hits it with gunfire at close range, even if it is only to fire with secondary armament.
 
Defending the game doesn't necessitate defending every little absurdity u know?

[mogami]

Hi, I don't see any point to complaining about every little petty incident. so what the BB was hit twice. There was no damage. The TF commander was more worried about hazzard to navigation the transport presented while he was attempting to close on target.
It's senseless to dwell on minor tatical text messages that have no impact on operation.

[SamCole]

How much secondary ammo did the BB have? I think it fought some battles earlier, if it didn't do a refuel/rearm, it might be out. And what are the op points like for that TF, for that turn?

[Nemo121]

ops point levels were fine and the BB has almost its full load of secondary armament ammunition.

Mogami,
Seriously, these apologias for the game are getting tiring. I pointed it out because I thought it was amusing to see an AK shoot at and hit a BB and make it away unscathed. I wasn't "complaining about every little incident" as you so pejoratively put it. As to whether or not it is worth pointing out minor flaws in the game engine, YES, it is. The reason being that minor flaws tend to build on one another and create major flaws. This is the nature of all systems and this game is a system.

Honestly you lose all credibility with me when you defend every little thing that's pointed out as being completely acceptable instead of just going "Yeah, weird." and leaving it at that. No-one was making a big deal about it. It was just an amusing aside. Let it go. You don't have to prove the game is perfection itself.

[ny59giants]

"Ah yes, a super-effective Japanese naval action. BB, CA and escort face helpless merchant ships. End result, BB gets hit a couple of times. Merchant ships escape unscathed . Talk about questionable"

Hi, Your BOMBARDMENT TF declined surface combat and continues with it's assigned mission. what is so questionable about that? Bet you if you rerun the turn with TF changed into a SURFACE COMBAT TF it beats the crap out of the transports. The transport TF is not looking to fight and neither is a bombardment TF. SURFACE COMBAT TF are always looking for a fight.

It would seem weird IRL if the "Tokyo Express" came down the Slot as a BB TF and ignored the Allied ships because it's commander was focused solely on bombarding Henderson Field.
Throughout the war they came down and on occasion, they ran into Allied ships and a surface combat broke out. [X(][X(]
Imagine that!![:D][:D]

[Titi]

A game that work 90% og the time is a good game; a game that work 99.9% of the time is a great game. 
In real life, the cargos would have run as soon as they had saw the shape of a BB but the BB would probably have detected them long before and would have either not fired a shot, nor changed course and speed but have detached temporary one or two DD from her escort to quickly deal with them or change speed and course to avoid detection and fulfill the mission.  A rule implementing the later could be used for other encounter like two CVs and 8 DDs running over a sub and letting only two DDs trying to depthcharge while the 6 others and the CVs continue what they were doing. 
By analogy, a  corean car is a good car, a german car is a great car.  Both have 4 wheels, a motor, a roof ... but the last one has ABS, airbags everywhere, some wood decorating the inside, more advanced mechanical design ...

What Nemo just did was pointing while moving along that this area needed a little work done to add a little more chrome to have a great game.  Nothing wrong in that.  And your job would have been to past the info to the programmer and see with him if a solution is possible rather than doing your saleman and telling us - idiot consumer - that a corean car don't need airbag and is 100% safe if you don't drive above 45 mph.

Now relax, don't take it personnal, take a beer or two and go back doing what you do the best : playing and working on the plan of the game against Nemo. [:'(]  I need another great AAR.

[mogami]

"Mogami,
Seriously, these apologias for the game are getting tiring. I pointed it out because I thought it was amusing to see an AK shoot at and hit a BB and make it away unscathed. I wasn't "complaining about every little incident" as you so pejoratively put it. As to whether or not it is worth pointing out minor flaws in the game engine, YES, it is. The reason being that minor flaws tend to build on one another and create major flaws. This is the nature of all systems and this game is a system.

Honestly you lose all credibility with me when you defend every little thing that's pointed out as being completely acceptable instead of just going "Yeah, weird." and leaving it at that. No-one was making a big deal about it. It was just an amusing aside. Let it go. You don't have to prove the game is perfection itself."
 
Hi, First I do not apoloze for the game.  You posted a result with alittle comment and seemed to idicate the result was somehow flawed. I pointed out your TF was not on a combat mission and if you wanted to sink transports send a surface combat TF.  Had the enemy TF been a surface combat TF you would have had a fight but it would have been the enemy that pressed for that not your bombardment TF.
 
The result without any more data from you other then the combat text appears to me to be your TF running through the transports with one of them getting off a few shots before the Japanese were again out of sight. (I doubt the IJN even knew it was shot at and if it did chose not to respond.
 
WITP does not need me to protect it. I only post because I (mistakingly) thought you wanted to understand how that result was produced.
 
In no part of WITP does the player have tactical control.  No result produced by WITP is stranger then results produced in actual war. No submarine will ever fire 6 torpedos and hit a CV and BB and DD with that spread.  No DD will ever repell a submarine by throwing potatoes at it.  No land force will ever destroy an attacking unit and then surrender to the remains who are marking their positions for evacuation.
 
If people pointed out my every flaw (or yours)when I was doing everything I said I would I would tell them to go pack sand.  You are quite correct that it is a waste of my time to respond.  I keep thinking people actually want to learn how to use the program.  If you ever find an actual bug I would hope rather then simply posting an amusing comment you submitted a save where it could be reproduced and then fixed.
 
NY: THe "Tokyo Express" encountered surface combat TF. In WITP that will produce a surface battle no matter what mission the Japanese are assigned (FT or BB)
 
TF are assiged a combat rating according to mission. In the above the transports had a "do not start" rating and BB TF had a "avoid" rating so combat was no more then a brief "spotting report" 2 surface TF would likely fight multiple rounds and a surface combat TF versus Bombardment TF would produce a major battle.

[stldiver]

Actually Mogami, I for one did appreciate understanding, so yes for my sake keep posting so at least I can understand. I agree with the above it is a great game, the few minor imperfections can be handled. Understanding what they are is the key. I just consider these things unpredictable fog of war, as in real life it adds unpredictability.

Stldiver

[Capt. Harlock]

If you can show me an incident during the war in which this occurred ( either due to damage or due the BB being on a different mission) then I'd love to hear it. I'd be quite willing to bet that you will not be able to find a single instance of a BB refusing to fire on a merchant ship which hits it with gunfire at close range, even if it is only to fire with secondary armament.

IIRC during the Naval battle of Guadalcanal the Japanese spotted the American cruiser column at reasonably long range, but did not open fire at first. This was because the two BB's were carrying ammo on the open decks, and the captains were most anxious to get it under cover so a single small enemy shell didn't cause an inferno. Funny things happen at night during war -- it's conceivable that the AK's might have turned tail immediately and opened fire with the aft guns, scoring a couple of lucky hits. The Japanese may have decided it wasn't worth unloading the bombardment ammunition and replacing it with anti-ship ordnance, since they weren't authorized to change course for such low-value opponenents.

[Nemo121]

That example isn't of a transport facing a BB.

As to unloading bombardment ammunition etc. Check out the range of the guns on a transport... They are of such short range that the AK would have to be well within the engagement envelope of the secondary armament on the BB and CA which don't partake in bombardments.

[mogami]

Hi, You didn't tell us what range the action took place at. The AK range for their 5in and 3in is 15k.

[Nemo121]

4000 yards. Well within range of DD main guns ( which isn't participating in the bombardment) and CA and BB secondary armaments.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, You didn't tell us what range the action took place at. The AK range for their 5in and 3in is 15k.

Why is range important? The secondary arms of BBs, CAs or the guns of every DD would probably shoot faster, longer and more accurate than those of the AKs.

I agree that the engagement has had no effect, but I´m on Nemo´s side here - it´s a bit strange....

Bombardment mission or not, if the bombardment TF would be shot at at least the lighter forces would shoot back. And the AKs couldn´t run.

[mogami]

Hi, I don't want to get into a fight over this. The game does not resolve any combat on the tactical level. ((The screen shots may give that impression but they are just something to look at while turn is calculated)
The Japanese TF was a bombardment TF. Chance of starting surface action on it's own low.
The Allied TF was a transport TF chance of starting surface action on it's own zero
Result: a contact report.  It's only strange because your expecting more tactical detail.

0130am IJN Bombardment TF begins high speed run to firing postions
0215am IJN Bombardment TF begins turn to course 150 for firing run
0220am IJN Bombardment TF makes contact with enemy tansport TF at 4000 yards
0228am IJN Bombardment TF loses contact with enemy transport TF
0230am IJN Bombardment TF commences fire on enemy land targets.
0330am IJN Bombardment TF ceases fire and commences high speed run to rally point
0430am IJN Bombardment TF on course back to Home Port.

It may be confusing, or annoying but it is simply where tactical results merge with the operational level game actually resolves in.  (Program looked at possible encounter decided it was a non event and turned it into a spotting report. Thats all it was don't try to read more into it.)

What I would take from this as Japanee player is that had enemy TF been a surface combat TF it is likely it would have had the tactical advantage in a surface battle. Increase scouting and patrol over target hex and check bombardment TF commanders.

Also if the light escorts ((Cl/DD) are not going to participate in bombardment form them into a surface combat TF and assign them to follow the bombardment TF.

To prevent the various tricks used to force bombardment TF into expending their ammo and movement fighting minor units in surface actions before bombarding have surface combat TF also moving into hex. The surface combat TF will engage before the bombardment TF. enemy transport TF will back out of hex after a surface battle and will not encounter the bombardment TF.