OT: Corona virus

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ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: witpqs



Erik,

You are the one 'shooting digs'. Fauci has said, more than once and on video, that Trump did what he asked the first time every time (including Trump not doing things Fauci asked him not to do). And that specifically includes Fauci going back on air to counter the misuse of his answer to a hypothetical question, the very one which you include here.

Your default is 'centralize everything', that you've made clear.

There are no digs. The personnel stuff is because I'm fed up with the BS you and others throw ardour at anyone who presents something slightly different than your world view, and is met with outrage without any foundation in fact. My default is to look widely for expert advice, objective information and base my posts on the best science has to offer in the moment. There are no politics in that, no agenda, just trying to understand.

This is objective information I'm getting from sources that are verified. How do you explain what Fauci said in this interview?

Have a look. One week to have 60% less deaths in this phase. Two weeks earlier to have 90% less. Even if there is some error margin in those projections, I'd certainly take 40-50% less deaths. Wouldn't you?

You appear to be only looking at the deaths from Covid-19. How about the other deaths caused by the lockdowns? How about other lives ruined or not made better? That death of the young lady that I posted is tragic, the worse tragedy is that the family donates her organs and they are not used because of the lockdowns.

Without the lockdown those excess deaths would be more prevalent, as hospitals become less able to treat both Covid patients and other cases. The medical staff would also have taken a bigger hit, and many industries would have faced shutdowns anyway from people off sick, even if they weren't in hospital.

This is about starting social distancing earlier, saving lives by limiting the total number of infections, which would prepare much better for a quicker opening and less economic and social hardship. See Denmark for an example.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


I do need to get my eyes tested, but that is another story. [8|]

Please show me where Trump did not take their advice. From what I have read, Trump has taken their advice. But remember, Trump does not rule by fiat.

Are you aware at all of the full range of reactions t this situation that the US president has stated publicly, on the record, in briefings and through social media? You should have another read through those.

I will again link the interview Fauci gave where he stated there was "pushback" about initiating social distancing. Do you think that came form someone other than the US president?

Fauci confirmed he advised a shutdown in late February. He also confirmed in an interview that there was " a lot of pushback" about shutting down at that point.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52264860

I mean, obviously, if we had, right from the very beginning, shut everything down, it may have been a little bit different. But there was a lot of pushback about shutting things down back then.

All of this sent Trump to Twitter in a fluster to talk about firing Fauci.

"Fauci was telling people on February 29th that there was nothing to worry about and it posed no threat to the US public at large," it said. "Time to #FireFauci..."

[JohnDillworth]

Coumo also wanted control of the Federal ventilator supply

Huh? Where did you here that? He certainly wanted control of what was in his state but he wanted control of the entire federal supply? Really?

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Should we ban driving because people might get shot?

...

Seeing as it was the gun that killed her, would make more sense to do something about that, no?

However, I suspect I know exactly what you'll say in response.

One interesting thing I find in discussions on this topic is that the emphasis is never on the "well regulated milita", but instead on the "right to bear arms"...

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Launch a nuclear device is part of his job as Commander in Chief of the US military. For what reason is there a need for an emergency order and what part of the Constitution allows for that?

Oh, so presidential power being unlimited is fine, provided it's in a military capacity?

Right, I can see no problem with that...

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I do need to get my eyes tested, but that is another story. [8|]

Please show me where Trump did not take their advice. From what I have read, Trump has taken their advice. But remember, Trump does not rule by fiat.

It's ongoing as we interact - current reports are that Trump doesn't intend to follow the CDC recommendations for Covid.

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

You appear to be only looking at the deaths from Covid-19. How about the other deaths caused by the lockdowns? How about other lives ruined or not made better? That death of the young lady that I posted is tragic, the worse tragedy is that the family donates her organs and they are not used because of the lockdowns.

Initial indications that I've seen from Scotland are that Covid accounts for an overwhelming (80% IIRC) of excess deaths for the period.

Worth remembering that it's not all negative - less people out and about means less crime, RTA, etc.

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

Coumo also wanted control of the Federal ventilator supply

Huh? Where did you here that? He certainly wanted control of what was in his state but he wanted control of the entire federal supply? Really?

I too eagerly await the source for this claim.

[JohnDillworth]

It's a complex issue, but unless he had a personal revelation once moving into the Governor's office, Andrew Cuomo is the type that will step on the public to get his way [to put it nicely].

He was a friend of my brothers when they both attended Archbishop Molloy High School in Queens. He was in my house a lot. Seemed like a nice enough guy, if ambitious. Huh......you have some "unproven allegations" there? If we are going to start listing unproven allegations against standing office holders we are going to have to get a bigger thread. He certainly seems to have brought the infection rates down in New York City and State though. Can't argue with success

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

Coumo also wanted control of the Federal ventilator supply

Huh? Where did you here that? He certainly wanted control of what was in his state but he wanted control of the entire federal supply? Really?

Gov. Andrew Cuomo demands stockpiled ventilators go immediately to New York first
by: CNN Wire
Posted: Mar 24, 2020

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo on Tuesday demanded the federal government take dramatic action to send thousands of stockpiled ventilators immediately to his state first, saying the Empire State’s immense coronavirus caseload threatened catastrophe in days without it.

He said New York has more than 25,000 coronavirus cases — at least 10 times as many as any other state — and his state needs 30,000 more ventilators on top of the 7,000 it has.

Cuomo wants all of what he called a current federal stockpile of 20,000 ventilators to brace for the coming “apex” in cases in New York, which he says will arrive as soon as 14 days.

https://ktla.com/news/nationworld/gov-a ... ork-first/

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

Coumo also wanted control of the Federal ventilator supply

Huh? Where did you here that? He certainly wanted control of what was in his state but he wanted control of the entire federal supply? Really?

Gov. Andrew Cuomo demands stockpiled ventilators go immediately to New York first
by: CNN Wire
Posted: Mar 24, 2020

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo on Tuesday demanded the federal government take dramatic action to send thousands of stockpiled ventilators immediately to his state first, saying the Empire State’s immense coronavirus caseload threatened catastrophe in days without it.

He said New York has more than 25,000 coronavirus cases — at least 10 times as many as any other state — and his state needs 30,000 more ventilators on top of the 7,000 it has.

Cuomo wants all of what he called a current federal stockpile of 20,000 ventilators to brace for the coming “apex” in cases in New York, which he says will arrive as soon as 14 days.

https://ktla.com/news/nationworld/gov-a ... ork-first/

Big difference between what you claimed and what is actually reported.

[RangerJoe]

Trump cites Post op-ed to blast Cuomo for not buying ventilators — in 2015
By Bob Fredericks
March 24, 2020

Cuomo for reportedly declining to buy 16,000 ventilators in 2015 to deal with a potential future pandemic.

“He had 16,000 ventilators that he could have bought and he didn’t buy them. He should’ve ordered the ventilators,” Trump said during a Fox News town hall. “They can’t blame us for that. Gov. Cuomo is supposed to be buying his own ventilators.”

https://nypost.com/2020/03/24/trump-cit ... s-in-2015/

[pontiouspilot]

I'm not sure the meat plant situations are worse than other scenarios but the the scale creates the problem. There are thousands at those big Alberta plants....leads to hundreds of cases...leads to the publicity.

The same social issue is part of the problem at long term care facilities also. There are many poorly trained, poorly paid staff...many working in multiple facilities. The same micro-community from the High River meat plant also have spouses working in care facilities, some in more than one care facility.

I hasten to add, before my comments are taken out of context, that I am casting no invective nor aspersion towards these communities. It's guys like me that created this mess...I want cheap meat and expect my mother to be taken care of without interrupting my pocket-book.

[JohnDillworth]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

Coumo also wanted control of the Federal ventilator supply

Huh? Where did you here that? He certainly wanted control of what was in his state but he wanted control of the entire federal supply? Really?

Gov. Andrew Cuomo demands stockpiled ventilators go immediately to New York first
by: CNN Wire
Posted: Mar 24, 2020

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo on Tuesday demanded the federal government take dramatic action to send thousands of stockpiled ventilators immediately to his state first, saying the Empire State’s immense coronavirus caseload threatened catastrophe in days without it.

He said New York has more than 25,000 coronavirus cases — at least 10 times as many as any other state — and his state needs 30,000 more ventilators on top of the 7,000 it has.

Cuomo wants all of what he called a current federal stockpile of 20,000 ventilators to brace for the coming “apex” in cases in New York, which he says will arrive as soon as 14 days.

https://ktla.com/news/nationworld/gov-a ... ork-first/

Yup, he wanted ventilators for his State. I don't see where he said he "wanted control of the Federal ventilator supply" Those are two different things. He never said what you said he did

[RangerJoe]

Elon Musk says Tesla will 'immediately' leave California after coronavirus shutdowns forced the company to close its main car factory
Business Insider•May 9, 2020

Elon Musk says Tesla may leave its Palo Alto headquarters and Fremont, California factory.

In a tweet Saturday morning, the chief executive continued his outrage against shelter-in-place orders that have forced most non-essential businesses to close.

Last week, Musk likened the rules to fascism, and urged leaders to "give people their goddamn freedom back."

After a week of decrying coronavirus shelter-in-place orders that have left Tesla's main factory shuttered and unable to produce vehicles, Elon Musk says the company may move its factory out of the state.

"Tesla is filing a lawsuit against Alameda County immediately," the chief executive said on Twitter Saturday morning. "The unelected & ignorant 'Interim Health Officer' of Alameda is acting contrary to the Governor, the President, our Constitutional freedoms & just plain common sense!"

That was followed up with a threat to move Tesla's headquarters outside the state.

"Frankly, this is the final straw," he replied. "Tesla will now move its HQ and future programs to Texas/Nevada immediately. If we even retain Fremont manufacturing activity at all, it will be dependent on how Tesla is treated in the future. Tesla is the last carmaker left in CA."—Elon Musk (@elonmusk) May 9, 2020

It wasn't immediately clear if a suit had yet been filed, or in which court Tesla will file the lawsuit. Most state and federal courts are closed on weekends and do not allow filing. In a subsequent Tweet, Musk alsourged shareholders to file a class action suit for damages caused by shutdown.

Tesla's press relations department did not immediately respond to a request for comment. Alameda County did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

https://news.yahoo.com/elon-musk-says-t ... 00044.html

[RFalvo69]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

....Creepy...

"We are businesses, nonprofits, governments and individuals...working in collaboration to ensure that the future of digital identity is, indeed, #goodID."

https://id2020.org/

Never trust a guy who wants everyone on the planet to have a vaccine verification card, but REFUSED to have his own children vaccinated.

FALSE

https://apnews.com/afs:Content:8873480039

[RangerJoe]

It Begins. California Official Announces Program to Remove People with COVID-19 From Their Homes to Quarantine Centers (VIDEO)
By Jim Hoft
Published May 7, 2020 at 10:13am

WHAT WOULD YOU DO if your six year old son or daughter tested positive for COVID19 and was taken from your home to a quarantine center by Ventura Health Authorities? This SHOCKING VIDEO demands that you plan ahead. #BeBrave #HistoryRepeating pic.twitter.com/e5RC7dCO7o

— Del Bigtree (@delbigtree) May 6, 2020

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/0 ... ers-video/

[JohnDillworth]

“He had 16,000 ventilators that he could have bought and he didn’t buy them. He should’ve ordered the ventilators,” Trump said during a Fox News town hall. “They can’t blame us for that. Gov. Cuomo is supposed to be buying his own ventilators.”

Well if Trump said it it must be true! , but it's not really the States job to fight global pandemics. Every State should be prepared to fight global pandemics? What about earthquakes, floods and hurricanes? That's on the states too? No Federal response to global events? Trump also suggested injecting disinfectants and I suspect that is not true either.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Trump cites Post op-ed to blast Cuomo for not buying ventilators — in 2015
By Bob Fredericks
March 24, 2020

Cuomo for reportedly declining to buy 16,000 ventilators in 2015 to deal with a potential future pandemic.

“He had 16,000 ventilators that he could have bought and he didn’t buy them. He should’ve ordered the ventilators,” Trump said during a Fox News town hall. “They can’t blame us for that. Gov. Cuomo is supposed to be buying his own ventilators.”

https://nypost.com/2020/03/24/trump-cit ... s-in-2015/

Did you read the article?

Then-state health commissioner Howard Zucker assembled a task force for rationing the ventilators they already had that recommended that the state not purchase the 16,000 ventilators because there weren’t enough doctors and medical personnel to operate them.

Instead, the task force devised a classification system to prioritize which patients would be treated on a ventilator.

Aside from this, NY was going through the most intense phase during the time those vents were requested, and we can look back and say that many were not needed. No one knew that then, or if the lockdown would actually work enough to keep the health system functioning. In the largest metropolitan area in the US this is not an outrageous request in the face of a pandemic.

Like so many other parts of this situation in the states it turned into politics. So sad.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

....Creepy...

"We are businesses, nonprofits, governments and individuals...working in collaboration to ensure that the future of digital identity is, indeed, #goodID."

https://id2020.org/

Never trust a guy who wants everyone on the planet to have a vaccine verification card, but REFUSED to have his own children vaccinated.

FALSE

https://apnews.com/afs:Content:8873480039

Not unexpected. One of the reasons it might just be slightly more reliable to get information from sites that check facts before publishing.

CLAIM: Bill Gates’ former doctor says the vaccine advocate refused to vaccinate his own children.

AP’S ASSESSMENT: False. The Microsoft founder and billionaire philanthropist has had all his children fully vaccinated.

THE FACTS: Social media users have revived a false claim that suggests Gates has an ulterior motive for promoting vaccines.

The false claim about Gates’ children circulated widely in 2018 following an article by the online publication YourNewsWire, which now goes by NewsPunch. Websites are now recirculating the YourNewsWire article suggesting to have inside information from Bill Gates’ supposed doctor.

Sean Adl-Tabatabai, the editor-in-chief of the publication, told the AP in an email that YourNewsWire no longer stands by the story.

“Our editorial standards have changed significantly since we moved to NewsPunch.com in late 2018,” he said. “The story was originally published on YourNewsWire.com - the claims made in the article were copied from a blog elsewhere on the web. Since it came to light that the claims we had copied were unreliable and likely false, we removed the story from YourNewsWire and didn’t republish on our new site.”

[RangerJoe]

Report: Rise in Suicide from Gov't Shutdowns Could Cause More Deaths Than COVID in Australia

Australia might see more deaths from an increase in suicides relating to the coronavirus pandemic than from the actual virus, according to a report from a university in the country.

SBS News reported that mental health researchers at Sydney University’s Brain and Mind Centre are predicting a 25 percent to 50 percent uptick in suicides during the country’s lockdown, and potentially beyond.

Models from the university are predicting that an extra 750 to 1,500 suicides a year could end up being attributed to the financial and mental health toll created by the virus, and by shuttering society to respond to it.

Up to 30 percent of those new suicide deaths could tragically occur among young people who are now overburdened by the pandemic and the fear and uncertainty surrounding it.

To make matters worse, the prediction of an increased suicide rate could play out over a prolonged five-year period.
.
.
.
According to Worldometers, which tracks global statistics in real time, more than 377,000 people worldwide have committed suicide so far in 2020, while more than 270,000 have died from the coronavirus globally.

The global suicide rate thus already outpaces lives lost due to the coronavirus.

President Donald Trump drew flak from the media when he suggested in March that the government’s response to the virus cannot be too heavy-handed, tweeting: “WE CANNOT LET THE CURE BE WORSE THAN THE PROBLEM ITSELF.”

Trump also cited his fear about an increased suicide rate coinciding with mass public lockdowns.

“You’re going to lose more people by putting a country into a massive recession or depression.” Trump said during a Fox News town hall on March 24. “You’re going to lose people. You’re going to have suicides by the thousands.”

Other experts are warning that more people could soon be dying from other causes as well at a time when the majority of resources being directed to the pandemic.

The Telegraph reported this week that a reduced focus on tuberculosis by health care providers during the COVID-19 pandemic could lead to an additional 1.4 million deaths from tuberculosis and 6.3 million additional cases over the next five years, as routine doctor visits and health screenings are not happening.

That’s without mentioning cancer screenings and other essential health services that have been put on hold.

The United Nations last month also warned of famines of “biblical proportion” due to the coronavirus pandemic.

U.N. executive David Beasley described the current global situation as “the worst humanitarian crisis since World War Two,” and added there are 130 million more people around the world who are now on the edge of starvation because of the pandemic.

These dire warnings come as the efficacy of mass lockdowns is already being questioned.

According to the data from a newly released medical survey, roughly 66 percent of hospitalized coronavirus patients within New York state — easily the hardest hit by the pandemic — were admitted from the safety of their own homes.

https://www.westernjournal.com/report-r ... australia/

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Trump cites Post op-ed to blast Cuomo for not buying ventilators — in 2015
By Bob Fredericks
March 24, 2020

Cuomo for reportedly declining to buy 16,000 ventilators in 2015 to deal with a potential future pandemic.

“He had 16,000 ventilators that he could have bought and he didn’t buy them. He should’ve ordered the ventilators,” Trump said during a Fox News town hall. “They can’t blame us for that. Gov. Cuomo is supposed to be buying his own ventilators.”

https://nypost.com/2020/03/24/trump-cit ... s-in-2015/

Did you read the article?

Then-state health commissioner Howard Zucker assembled a task force for rationing the ventilators they already had that recommended that the state not purchase the 16,000 ventilators because there weren’t enough doctors and medical personnel to operate them.

Instead, the task force devised a classification system to prioritize which patients would be treated on a ventilator.

Aside from this, NY was going through the most intense phase during the time those vents were requested, and we can look back and say that many were not needed. No one knew that then, or if the lockdown would actually work enough to keep the health system functioning. In the largest metropolitan area in the US this is not an outrageous request in the face of a pandemic.

Like so many other parts of this situation in the states it turned into politics. So sad.

Yes, I read that. I also read where the panels that would make the decision as to who would get a ventilator and who would not were called death panels. But I chose not to post that as it might seem inflammatory.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

“He had 16,000 ventilators that he could have bought and he didn’t buy them. He should’ve ordered the ventilators,” Trump said during a Fox News town hall. “They can’t blame us for that. Gov. Cuomo is supposed to be buying his own ventilators.”

Well if Trump said it it must be true! , but it's not really the States job to fight global pandemics. Every State should be prepared to fight global pandemics? What about earthquakes, floods and hurricanes? That's on the states too? No Federal response to global events? Trump also suggested injecting disinfectants and I suspect that is not true either.

Actually, it is the state's job. The state's and the local government's job is to protect its citizens from illness, earthquakes, floods, hurricanes, and many other dangers.

As far as bleach in the blood, I am sure that I have had that.

[JohnDillworth]

Yes, I read that. I also read where the panels that would make the decision as to who would get a ventilator and who would not were called death panels. But I chose not to post that as it might seem inflammatory.

Oh how times have changed. Fox News used to say Obamacare would have death panels. Now you have the people in the meatpacking plants, with the highest infection rates, being forced back to work by being made mandatory employees.