What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? Now allowed for Oloren!

[juret]

i followed these 2 players in their others aars

pretty sure they will keep on playing

its good for the forum to see a german player win or at least have the upper hand in late 44-45

[Flaviusx]

Ok, I suppose the beatings will continue until morale improves.

Really, this is nothing but an exercise in logistics now. It's neither interesting nor sporting. Honor my ass.

[governato]

Terje, if you and Brad keep having fun who cares what the pundits say, by all means keep playing. This is one of the few games that is actually fun to watch.

[juret]

ORIGINAL: governato

Terje, if you and Brad keep having fun who cares what the pundits say, by all means keep playing. This is one of the few games that is actually fun to watch.

agree.

i enjoy this aar alot, also i like the terje way to present the game in the thread.

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

This has been over for a while. Your opponent is a masochist. There's nothing sporting about this, it's just a train wreck. It's about as lopsided as bambi vs. Godzilla.

He ought to do the sensible thing and surrender.

Sorry Flaviusx [;)]
The other games it has been reversed, and now Brad seems to be granting me the "fun" he has had, I appreciate it.


Terje

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: sillyflower

The honourable thing is to fight on as he has, and too few players do.
No point in playing a GC if you baleout as soon as you don't think you can win. Terje has deserved his triumph and all credit to Brian's sportsmanhip: though not his generalship.

Thank you, and I agree. Not sure what Brad feels about being called Brian though [;)]


Terje

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: rbrockman2

Q1: It looks like any Red Team units between Moscow and Stalingrad that don't run away right now are going to get encircled in groups of 5 or 10 and then toasted. Can they even run away fast enough? Doesn't look like most of the Red Team units have wheels.

Q2: How fast can the big, mean, black-label units cruise up the rail lines north of Moscow? Is this a practical way to isolate Leningrad and the Red Team forces north of Moscow before mud?

Q3: Does Red Team know about the shortage of Axis railroad repair units? This shortage limits the number of Axis lines of advance to two, right? Is there a way to get the disbanded repair units back? If Virtual Stalin knows where the two railroad repair units are, maybe he can concentrate his remaining forces there to stall the advance long enough to recover somewhat an avoid a decisive defeat.

Q4: Where did Red Team go wrong strategically? The monster 250 unit encirclement was clearly not great, but it seems to me that for the most part Red Team suffered a large number of little operational defeats (handfuls of units encircled) which added up to the ultimate collapse we see here. Was Red Team too attached to territory to run away in time? How does Red Team avoid these problems?

Q1 : I think he can make something happening here, and besides I simply cannot push too hard eastwards atm as my southern flank is held by Hungarians...facing USSR rifle corps...Need to get more troops down there before I can push on hard.

Q2 : I am not sure. What has to be counted as a pro for this idea is the lack of USSR units, the con part is the terrain up north.

Q3 : Yes, he knows I am down to 2. And no, those guys are gone. But I doubt that will be what breaks me at this point tbh. Remember I still have scores of "minor" construction units repairing rails as well.

Q4 : After the big encirclement I think Brad should have waited to create corps formations, and instead use those points on more divisions. That way I think he could have defended more effectively in depth and have slowed me down. But Brad will have to give the details here when he reads this eventually.
Another fault I think, was to follow as far as he did in the first blizzard. When the blizzard was gone, his units were once more weak, and this time they were in the open.
I would also point to the fact that during this game, I somehow got a better grasp of making pockets than I had before, and I think that might have caught Brad off guard this time.

Terje

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: juret

i followed these 2 players in their others aars

pretty sure they will keep on playing

its good for the forum to see a german player win or at least have the upper hand in late 44-45

I hope Brad does not surrender, but if he does, I will accept it.
I would ofc not have surrendered though [:D]

Terje

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Ok, I suppose the beatings will continue until morale improves.

Really, this is nothing but an exercise in logistics now. It's neither interesting nor sporting. Honor my ass.

I have taken a beating in the first games we have played eachother, yet hung in there, and it actually has made me a better player imo. There are still things to learn even when the game is failing if you ask me.


Terje

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: governato

Terje, if you and Brad keep having fun who cares what the pundits say, by all means keep playing. This is one of the few games that is actually fun to watch.

Thank you [:)]
Glad someone likes the AAR, if not making it would be kind of wasted I suppose [:D]


Terje

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: juret

ORIGINAL: governato

Terje, if you and Brad keep having fun who cares what the pundits say, by all means keep playing. This is one of the few games that is actually fun to watch.

agree.

i enjoy this aar alot, also i like the terje way to present the game in the thread.

Thank you. When I started making it this way, I looked for a way to put info into the AAR, not only for the readers, but also for myself to keep track of things, and if they read it, for the developers to see what happens as the game progresses in one way or another.
My game is not at all among the best, and I think that not only the top 10% of players should be listened to [;)]


Terje

[terje439]

Turn 128

Overall
We eliminate most of the Moscow pocket and take one of the city hexes this turn. Apart from that we do not do much apart from pushing back weak USSR units wherever we can. I need to free the "light green" panzers around Moscow and send them south so I can push stronger down there. The USSR partisans were really annoying this turn, preventing any tracks to be repaired around Moscow.
85 attacks gave a result of 10 helds, 1 scouted, 61 retreats, 2 routs and 12 surrenders.

USSR units in pockets at start of turn
44.

USSR units in pockets at end of turn
12.

Losses
USSR : 438.000 troops, 7.699 guns, 269 AFVs, 403 AC.
Axis : 46.000 troops, 508 guns, 150 AFVs, 46 AC.

USSR units lost
1 Tank Corps, 8 Rifle Corps, 20 Rifle Divisions, 1 Mountain Division, 1 tank brigade, 1 Rifle Brigade, 1 PVO AA regiment.

German units disbanded
None.

Partisans hunted down
8, leaving 9(!!!) on the map.

German pools
Manpower : 262.370
Vehicles : 218.161
Armaments : 660.569
Hiwi : 192.969

Victory Points
229.

[Tophat1815]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Ok, I suppose the beatings will continue until morale improves.

Really, this is nothing but an exercise in logistics now. It's neither interesting nor sporting. Honor my ass.

Where does this nonsense come from? The vast majority of AAR's have the Germans beaten back or routed. To his credit terje has hung in through 2 games where he was beaten. I really appreciate his willingness to see games through to conclusion and I am glad brad sees it the same way.

Seems funny that just after blizzard 41' the conventional wisdom had terje fighting in Berlin in 45' if he was lucky! Oh how the worm has turned indeed. This AAR gives inspiration to German players to stick it out and shows that the Germans can attack in late 43'. I am very curious to see what te change and lowering of morale brings in 44'......I doubt terje will have the victory points before years end......will he over extend? Will Brad be able to launch a winter offensive of his own and breakthrough weak axis allies? How costly will the Moscow fighting be for terje?

[gingerbread]

True, German National Morale will go down and Soviet will reach it's max (60). Bur then there is this:

Rule Change (section 21.1.10.1) - The Soviet Manpower Multipliers in 1943, 44 and 45
are reduced by 5 (so they are now 35, 30 and 15 respectively).

I think that Brad had quite a high number of men in the pool when Terje's '42 offensive started, but they should be gone by now, if not earlier. So in '44 it's down to the 70k-75k per turn produced & recovered disabled, and that is not enough by any way of counting.

Also, the AP squeeze will not lessen.

BTW, I think Brad is a good sport continuing, though I would in Terje's position offer him to resign after all three Moscow hexes have fallen - a suitable crowning achievement!

[STEF78]

You are really a long term fighter that should not be underestimated.

I've read your first AAR until the fall of Berlin, it was a desesparate situation but you kept fighting. Congratulations.

Moscow taken, you will be close to victory. Is it a 260 or 290 VP game? And what will be your target to win this game?

[AFV]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Ok, I suppose the beatings will continue until morale improves.

Really, this is nothing but an exercise in logistics now. It's neither interesting nor sporting. Honor my ass.

This is the reason so many of us pushed for the alt victory conditions being in the range of attainable- and I truly wondered why some actually opposed it. *cough* Flavius-Aurelian-LiquidSky
If Terje can gather the required victory points, then it will end. Until then, it goes on, as it should.

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: Tophat1812

Seems funny that just after blizzard 41' the conventional wisdom had terje fighting in Berlin in 45' if he was lucky! Oh how the worm has turned indeed. This AAR gives inspiration to German players to stick it out and shows that the Germans can attack in late 43'. I am very curious to see what te change and lowering of morale brings in 44'......I doubt terje will have the victory points before years end......will he over extend? Will Brad be able to launch a winter offensive of his own and breakthrough weak axis allies? How costly will the Moscow fighting be for terje?

Thank you. Actually, I think some would have claimed I should just have called it a loss at that stage as well.
My main issue now is one of supply. I really should not have disbanded those 3 FBDs [:D]


Terje

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: gingerbread

True, German National Morale will go down and Soviet will reach it's max (60). Bur then there is this:

Rule Change (section 21.1.10.1) - The Soviet Manpower Multipliers in 1943, 44 and 45
are reduced by 5 (so they are now 35, 30 and 15 respectively).

I think that Brad had quite a high number of men in the pool when Terje's '42 offensive started, but they should be gone by now, if not earlier. So in '44 it's down to the 70k-75k per turn produced & recovered disabled, and that is not enough by any way of counting.

Also, the AP squeeze will not lessen.

BTW, I think Brad is a good sport continuing, though I would in Terje's position offer him to resign after all three Moscow hexes have fallen - a suitable crowning achievement!

Not sure how Brad's pools are looking, and tbh the real issue for him should be AP by now, as you mentioned.


Terje

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: STEF78

You are really a long term fighter that should not be underestimated.

I've read your first AAR until the fall of Berlin, it was a desesparate situation but you kept fighting. Congratulations.

Moscow taken, you will be close to victory. Is it a 260 or 290 VP game? And what will be your target to win this game?

Thank you.
260 VP.
I need to get supply flowing again, then I will try to take the cities just north of Moscow, then head east for the cities there (they are mostly 3 VP cities, not 1 VP, so they are worth the drive). In the south I will have to go for Stalingrad. That should be enough for a victory.
That is IF I get the supply sorted sometime soon.


Terje

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: AFV

This is the reason so many of us pushed for the alt victory conditions being in the range of attainable- and I truly wondered why some actually opposed it. *cough* Flavius-Aurelian-LiquidSky
If Terje can gather the required victory points, then it will end. Until then, it goes on, as it should.

I also think there is another aspect that is easily forgotten in these games. To me, a pbem is not just a game that is to be won or lost. It is an agreement between two persons to fight it out. Where is the honour and fun in quitting just because things are not going well enough? I have had some opponents like that, and those I will never play again.

And ofc, by that standard, I should have surrendered this game at the end of -41 [;)]


Terje