AI Improvement Mod (1.05 Extended Release)

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Icemania
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RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Beta)

Post by Icemania »

You are right Bingeling but whatever AI technology trading exists is very limited in terms of material impact.
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Icemania
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AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Release)

Post by Icemania »

All:

After playing a game on lower aggression levels, as well as previous test games on higher aggression, I'm pretty happy with the changes, so I'll update the OP with the 1.04 release version.

Blackstork:

To integrate Version 1.04 with Beyond here is the impact for each change:

1. Spaceports now use the Evade Stance (except for races that require Point Blank for their chosen weapon type). This effects Tractor Beams, pushing away ships, hence making it more difficult for Pirates to land raiders.

This has an impact on Empire Spaceport Design Templates for each race.

2. War Willingness generally increased and better aligned with racial characteristics i.e. so passive races still have a low War Willingness, but aggressive races have increased War Willingness.

This has an impact on the War Willingness parameter in the Race files. Refer also to the summary excel sheet.

3. Racial biases are much more often negative for races in other alliance / racial groups.
4. Positive racial biases are now more strongly aligned with racial groups.
5. Racial biases now include a modifier for friendliness of the race to better align with their racial characteristics.


These three items all impact the race biases file. Refer also to the raceBiases sheets in the Excel file (which produces the text which can be copied and pasted in the race biases file) which uses input from the Summary sheet.
sayke
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RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Release)

Post by sayke »

Icemania - Thank you!! [&o]
Stardude
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RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Release)

Post by Stardude »

Hey Icemania,

I was playing through as the Ackdarians and I was wondering if the ship constructions sizes were supposed to stay at 230 size for the first update. I notice the speed is faster, but I thought the ship sizes were increased to 300. I am playing the Beyond mod, but I thought the AI mod controlled that. Not sure if this is a bug or what.

~Dude
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Icemania
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RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Release)

Post by Icemania »

ORIGINAL: Stardude

Hey Icemania,

I was playing through as the Ackdarians and I was wondering if the ship constructions sizes were supposed to stay at 230 size for the first update. I notice the speed is faster, but I thought the ship sizes were increased to 300. I am playing the Beyond mod, but I thought the AI mod controlled that. Not sure if this is a bug or what.

~Dude
Hey Stardude:

What you should expect to see, along with an explanation, is in the OP below.
ORIGINAL: Icemania
Available ship sizes have been increased in each class to avoid AI ship design problems. The design templates use a fixed number of components so without this change the larger designs used in this Mod can be problematic early game.

So instead of starting at Size 160 then the first upgrade provides Size 230, you'll start at Size 230 then the first upgrade provides Size 300 and so on through the tiers. To say the least this change has resolved a lot of the early problems the AI had with the larger designs and the developer has also improved some of the shrinkage methods also.
Stardude
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RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Release)

Post by Stardude »

K, It currently wasn't like that in the Beyond mod, I switched to the Extended AI Improvement and it seems that it is the correct sizes. I posted to Blackstork as well, not sure if it was supposed to be that way or maybe something I did when I installed it.
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Icemania
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RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Release)

Post by Icemania »

Okay thanks I'll check the latest Beyond and post more in the Beyond Mod thread.
UnfriendlyBG
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RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Beta)

Post by UnfriendlyBG »

Hi, thanks for your work on this mod. I've only played a few games of distant worlds and never higher than normal and usually let a lot of the stuff be automated so I have some questions. I streamed your mod earlier today after having a discussion with someone about an old star trek 4x game he liked while i was streaming Endless Legend. I said, hey I know a game you might like and it has a star trek mod (looking at the star trek mod it seemed maybe not complete and I liked what I saw with your mod so I went with the extended version of it). I have some questions for you or anyone really.

1) Will leaving the automation on for research and auto updating the base/ship designs follow the new logic the AI uses? Like if im a certain race that uses torpedos or whatever will they research torpedos as you have defined in your mod or will it behave differently since I am a player? Ditto with ship designs. Designing ships and all that is a little above my skill level at the moment.

2) What would you consider a 'standard' game set up as far as grid size (forget if this is the right name...), amount of stars, and number of civs? This is a question Ive never really been able to find out. Any difference for prewarp or standard? I play with tech trading off, space creatures and pirates on normal, basically default settings, oh and the shaktari story off because it happened my first game and i dont think i liked how it ended. I think I do the uniform star clusters as well because I had one game get absolutely wrecked (w/o your mod just extended) in i think an spiral galaxy where they were militaristic and started right in the center and it just wasnt fair.

3) I declared 2 wars and accomplished absolutely 0 resistance. The only ships I killed were civilian maybe an odd one here or there. Im talking taking like half of someones empire who was about the same military power as me and not having a single battle. Is this expected behavior? it was kinda boring to take like 5 planets and have not only no troops on them but no star ports or fleet resistance.

That's probably it as far as mod specific questions go.

I have some general DW questions from here on out that you can feel free to answer or not.

4) Did I read somewhere that this mod was meant to be played on very hard? or am I going crazy?

5) Having never played on very hard, I got myself in about 200k worth of debt and I cannot get out. Nearly all of my planets were taken via war and are low pop. I can only tax my home province by 26% and maybe just a few percent on my 2nd best colony. I cant remember the name of the people I am but they are a warlike race that kinda sounded like klingons in the description and I think desert is their preferred planet. I built an attaction, 4 space ports (1 large 2 small I think), recruited troops and went to war with the xhumans that were colonizing near me quickly but had almost no military power. I only had maybe 3 planets I could colonize including my capital, despite building a ton of explorer ships. Now I have all these low pop colonies, constant resource shortages, and pretty much stay at -200k despite canceling all my protections, disbanding 2/3's of my explorers etc. Im probably in like 6th out of 8th place in military power so it isnt like i have a lot of ships, and BY FAR the weakest economy, something like 3% of the gdp. Even though I went to 2 wars and took like 6 or so colonies and didn't lose any ships... All I can think of doing is disbanding like literally all of my troops and and ships and seeing if no one will declare war on me and I can get enough money to build some attractions and some spaceports in my new areas, because the money just isnt coming in even with just1 fleet... Sorry for the long story, but I don't really understand what went wrong and these colonies aren't going to be taxable forever.

Anyways great work on the mod I'm excited to play some more games after I get those mod related questions answered!

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Icemania
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RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Beta)

Post by Icemania »

Welcome UnfriendlyBG!
ORIGINAL: UnfriendlyBG
1) Will leaving the automation on for research and auto updating the base/ship designs follow the new logic the AI uses? Like if im a certain race that uses torpedos or whatever will they research torpedos as you have defined in your mod or will it behave differently since I am a player? Ditto with ship designs. Designing ships and all that is a little above my skill level at the moment.
Yes, if you have research and designs on auto, the research orders and templates are aligned. In fact this is how I normally play these days, I used to play full micro but the games go much faster and can be a lot of fun with these on auto. If you go to the Galactopedia the descriptions for each race let you know what their focus areas are.
ORIGINAL: UnfriendlyBG
2) What would you consider a 'standard' game set up as far as grid size (forget if this is the right name...), amount of stars, and number of civs? This is a question Ive never really been able to find out. Any difference for prewarp or standard? I play with tech trading off, space creatures and pirates on normal, basically default settings, oh and the shaktari story off because it happened my first game and i dont think i liked how it ended. I think I do the uniform star clusters as well because I had one game get absolutely wrecked (w/o your mod just extended) in i think an spiral galaxy where they were militaristic and started right in the center and it just wasnt fair.
This is really a matter of personal preference. Part of the longevity of the game is being able to play with a variety of settings. As a relatively new player, I would probably recommend a smaller map with just a few civilisations and no pirates, peaceful or normal aggression, until you really get the hang of it.
ORIGINAL: UnfriendlyBG
3) I declared 2 wars and accomplished absolutely 0 resistance. The only ships I killed were civilian maybe an odd one here or there. Im talking taking like half of someones empire who was about the same military power as me and not having a single battle. Is this expected behavior? it was kinda boring to take like 5 planets and have not only no troops on them but no star ports or fleet resistance.
Wars with the AI Improvement Mod can be far more challenging than Vanilla. However, since the AI's are generally more aggressive and the Pirates are harder you'll find some AI's that have been stomped. Declaring war on the strongest AI's will be a different story.
ORIGINAL: UnfriendlyBG
4) Did I read somewhere that this mod was meant to be played on very hard? or am I going crazy?
Yes up to 1.03 the recommendation in the theme text in-game was to play it on Hard or above. In 1.04 I've changed that to Very Hard. The fundamental reason is that there are limits on what can be done to improve the AI. For example, the AI's build many more Explorers, but there is no way for me to decrease the number of Explorers once the Exploration phase is complete. They just sit there, which costs the AI money, when a human player would rationalise them. If you play on Normal in particular that can be a big handicap to the AI. If you play on higher difficulties the AI can afford it and the benefit is huge as it's no longer possible to literally find everything interesting in the galaxy before the AI can like Vanilla. That said, the Mod will work on Normal or Hard, it just doesn't achieve the vision I had.
ORIGINAL: UnfriendlyBG
5) Having never played on very hard, I got myself in about 200k worth of debt and I cannot get out. Nearly all of my planets were taken via war and are low pop. I can only tax my home province by 26% and maybe just a few percent on my 2nd best colony. I cant remember the name of the people I am but they are a warlike race that kinda sounded like klingons in the description and I think desert is their preferred planet. I built an attaction, 4 space ports (1 large 2 small I think), recruited troops and went to war with the xhumans that were colonizing near me quickly but had almost no military power. I only had maybe 3 planets I could colonize including my capital, despite building a ton of explorer ships. Now I have all these low pop colonies, constant resource shortages, and pretty much stay at -200k despite canceling all my protections, disbanding 2/3's of my explorers etc. Im probably in like 6th out of 8th place in military power so it isnt like i have a lot of ships, and BY FAR the weakest economy, something like 3% of the gdp. Even though I went to 2 wars and took like 6 or so colonies and didn't lose any ships... All I can think of doing is disbanding like literally all of my troops and and ships and seeing if no one will declare war on me and I can get enough money to build some attractions and some spaceports in my new areas, because the money just isnt coming in even with just1 fleet... Sorry for the long story, but I don't really understand what went wrong and these colonies aren't going to be taxable forever.
Glad to hear it's a challenge! You may want to consider some more games at lower difficulties. Also have a look at some of the After Action Reports. Larry Monte has a good series running at the moment with the AI Improvement Mod on Hard, lots of good tips in those videos I'm sure you would find useful.
UnfriendlyBG
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RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Beta)

Post by UnfriendlyBG »

These are all observations just as a noob so probably not exactly what youre looking for but might be useful.

I'm having a lot more success today just playing on normal. It feels about as difficult as my other normal playthroughs more or less. I havent gone to war yet though. Im the avian eugenics guys and everyone just sends me treaties etc and I have the 2nd best military. I had so many spaceports killed while building them even when protecting them so it's been tough but for whatever reason im making a ton of money I don't really understand how all that works. So great job! The legendary pirates destroyed my entire fleet basically and I had to rebuild. My only complaint is the warp drives were really slow with standard auto research but Im doing 10x10 700 stars so maybe I dont have enough stars. Another suggestion I would make is maybe somehow indicate that you don't need to research the colonization tech for your innate planet type (desert for me). Not really a big deal but a little confusing. Actually what can you even colonize at the beginning with no techs? Maybe don't have the ai auto research their home planet tech right away? Maybe just before you go for advanced? It doesn't seem like you research the advanced until way into the game anyway, but it's probably such a small time it doesn't matter?

Also Kaltors aren't scary at all anymore theyre pretty much a non factor, I kinda miss them being a thing but I think any default escort can kill one.

When you get new components researched do you have to go into the plans and select everything and do 'auto update' or does it do it automatically? I select all and do autoupdate and sometimes it makes new orange ones so Im not sure if im messing anything up.

Also, I cant remember if in the default game if spaceports have research but it seems like I dont have to ever build any research facilities even if I just have like 2 spaceports. I actually took out the research mods and made a different version of the spaceport myself which was fun. I dont really understand the research though I look at those damn numbers all the time and they dont add up and they dont make sense I read an explanation a long time ago but forgot.

Oh also, is it best to also buy a capital ship over like a bunch of smaller ships? I can afford a lot of capital ships this game and it seems like its just better to spam them. Thanks
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Icemania
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RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Beta)

Post by Icemania »

Glad you are having fun, comments below...
ORIGINAL: UnfriendlyBG
I'm having a lot more success today just playing on normal.
Once you really get the hang of the game Normal is just way too easy ... with respect I'd call it "Noob" difficulty. It's a relatively complex game so it's reasonable to have to give the AI some bonuses for it to be competitive.
ORIGINAL: UnfriendlyBG
My only complaint is the warp drives were really slow with standard auto research but Im doing 10x10 700 stars so maybe I dont have enough stars.
The warp drives are intended to be slower early game but faster late game. I never liked the idea you could go from a snails pace with Warp Bubble Generator while with Gerax you could explore an entire galaxy with a few extra fuel cells with nothing in between. But yes I normally play with more stars myself as well.
ORIGINAL: UnfriendlyBG
Another suggestion I would make is maybe somehow indicate that you don't need to research the colonization tech for your innate planet type (desert for me). Not really a big deal but a little confusing. Actually what can you even colonize at the beginning with no techs? Maybe don't have the ai auto research their home planet tech right away? Maybe just before you go for advanced? It doesn't seem like you research the advanced until way into the game anyway, but it's probably such a small time it doesn't matter?
The research cost for the innate planet type is lower with this mod. Waiting for Advanced is too late given the rush to colonise territory (and also needs to be balanced against wonder targets and so on).
ORIGINAL: UnfriendlyBG
When you get new components researched do you have to go into the plans and select everything and do 'auto update' or does it do it automatically? I select all and do autoupdate and sometimes it makes new orange ones so Im not sure if im messing anything up.
It's automatic but there is a delay. There is no real harm in selecting all and doing an auto update.
ORIGINAL: UnfriendlyBG
Also, I cant remember if in the default game if spaceports have research but it seems like I dont have to ever build any research facilities even if I just have like 2 spaceports. I actually took out the research mods and made a different version of the spaceport myself which was fun. I dont really understand the research though I look at those damn numbers all the time and they dont add up and they dont make sense I read an explanation a long time ago but forgot.
It's changed a lot in this mod, as otherwise the AI either fails to research fully, or fails to have a reasonable split across the research areas. For explanations refer to the links in the Guide to Guides Mk II.
ORIGINAL: UnfriendlyBG
Oh also, is it best to also buy a capital ship over like a bunch of smaller ships? I can afford a lot of capital ships this game and it seems like its just better to spam them. Thanks
IMO yes. As your construction size increases the capital ship designs will expand as well by scaling up the number of components i.e. so you can retrofit to even larger sizes all the way up to maximum.
Stardude
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RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Beta)

Post by Stardude »

Anyone ever have issues with invading colonies or planets, I attack them but the troops never unload from my transports.
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Icemania
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RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Beta)

Post by Icemania »

No problems here. As a normal game mechanic unchanged by the AI Improvement Mod I am not sure how it's relevant here? May I suggest a separate thread with more detail on the problem you are having.
Stardude
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RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Beta)

Post by Stardude »

I only posted it here cause I loaded the 1.03 theme and extended universe by themselves and problem didn't persist. I'll investigate further.
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Shogouki
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RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Beta)

Post by Shogouki »

Hey Ice, would it mess with any of the race's tech preferences and builds if I made an edit to the mod that reduced the number of fighters per bay but increased the firepower and HP of the fighters to compensate?
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Icemania
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RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Beta)

Post by Icemania »

I can't see that causing any problems Shogouki. Indeed if you find the game gets a bit of lag with the massive fighter battles, I'd say that's a great idea!
UnfriendlyBG
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RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Beta)

Post by UnfriendlyBG »

About to start a new game with your mod again. What goes in to the AI's suggestions for amount of ships you should have/build?
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Icemania
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RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Beta)

Post by Icemania »

I'd treat the AI suggestions on what to build with a pinch of salt and play it your way. It's pretty limited in what I can mod. In a nutshell I build more construction ships than the AI (I still have on the developer support wishlist that the AI would build more here), similar numbers of explorers (with this mod which is a lot more than Vanilla) early to mid-game but a lot less late game, and build only the largest ship that I have available and ignore the rest. Hope that helps!

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Testmann
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RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Beta)

Post by Testmann »

Ok I've got two nitpicks with the latest version of this mod. [:)]

First, Racial Biases should be more in relation to their form of government.
Other Empires that have very friendly governments still hate me because of different race group.
Race seems to be at least 2 times as important as government right now. please a bit less racism and a bit more government priority for biases.

Second, your design templates seem to focus very much on just one weapon.
My whole fleet and bases solely rely on torpedo weapons while completely ignoring beam weapons, fighters and tractor beams.

Even if my lasers are 5 techs ahead the design ai still uses level 1 garbage-torpedos. (Ackdarians)

In large space battles I get crushed because of bad weapons composition.
Automated ship design becomes very closeminded/not fun at all.
I'd love to see ship designs use a larger variety of weapons/fighters/tractor beams.


please take a look at it, I like your mod! cheers!
UnfriendlyBG
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RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Beta)

Post by UnfriendlyBG »

This is probably the wrong place to ask, but I am using the mod so I'm not sure what affect it has. How do I go to war with a similar strength and size empire (20ish colonies?) without it just being trading planets back and forth. With the slow warp drives you can't do much reacting. I was at war for like 3 or 4 hours yesterday and it was just super frustrating. I'm playing on hard btw. I'd take a colony, theyd take it back or it would rebel enough to go back before I could get more troops out there (despite recruiting something like 100 ungarrisoned troops in my empire). Then they would attack just where I wasn't nabbing stuff in my empire and making me have to take it back. I dont know if thats just how distant worlds is or if I'm doing it wrong or what, but just trading back and forth is very frustrating. Should I go and wipe out all their mining stations and stuff first?

I dont want to just go to their homeworld as they have these long range torpedos (which also render all my defenses ineffective because they dont get in weapon range, im the sluken they are the valeeren(?)), plus its the furthest planet away and I'd be low on fuel and screwed if I got wiped out. I swept like the closest 6 systems they owned of all hostiles and stuff and parked some fleets out there waiting to get transports out there but then theyd just send fleets and transports at random stuff deep in my empire, and I just couldn't react fast enough to get to the systems in time.
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