OT: Corona virus

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: durnedwolf

ORIGINAL: Nomad

Colorado changing the way they count deaths. I wonder how many other states will follow suit?

https://www.foxnews.com/us/colorado-low ... eath-count

So over 122 people in Colorado have died from alcohol poisoning? What the heck are those people drinking - Everclear?

Maybe those people tried to raise their alcohol content to 60% internally to kill the corona virus.

[JohnDillworth]

ORIGINAL: Nomad

Colorado changing the way they count deaths. I wonder how many other states will follow suit?

https://www.foxnews.com/us/colorado-low ... eath-count

I' sure you will see lots of changes in the way deaths are counted or if they are counted at all. Nebraska doesn't count the sick at the meat packing plants because it makes the rest of the state look bad. Not sure if they are counting the dead in those places. Florida only counts you dead from Corona if you are are a citizen of the State of Florida. If you are from out of state you don't count. Florida has hid lots of the nursing home deaths too. FOIA requests eventually get them but they have made a conscious effort to hide numbers. Every State seems to be not reporting nursing home deaths accurately. CDC official numbers are much lower than Johns Hopkins. They say it takes 3 weeks to tally the numbers but who knows? Once there are many truths who can tell any more?

[durnedwolf]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: durnedwolf

ORIGINAL: Nomad

Colorado changing the way they count deaths. I wonder how many other states will follow suit?

https://www.foxnews.com/us/colorado-low ... eath-count

So over 122 people in Colorado have died from alcohol poisoning? What the heck are those people drinking - Everclear?

Maybe those people tried to raise their alcohol content to 60% internally to kill the corona virus.

I wonder if beer-bongs were involved.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Total Covid-19 cases per 100k residents, at county level - stolen from elsewhere on the internet.



Some real interesting insights from this.

Florida still seems to be doing fairly well, but what worries me is the string of black across the Midwest...

The image did not show up for me. I can't get to https://i.redd.it/vy7y44mhf0z41.png either.

But I can imagine that the black is the high number of cases at the meat packing plants. Those pose unique situations that have been commented on before.

I can imagine that the food processing plants may have similar problems. Maybe not as bad, but the harvesting work is done by hand, then the fruits and vegetables have to be processed. The processing plants may end up being bad. The harvesting may not be so bad if precautions are taken on any bus rides but then the workers would be in the fields with less contact and more air movement plus the natural UV light.

[durnedwolf]

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

ORIGINAL: Nomad

Colorado changing the way they count deaths. I wonder how many other states will follow suit?

https://www.foxnews.com/us/colorado-low ... eath-count

I' sure you will see lots of changes in the way deaths are counted or if they are counted at all. Nebraska doesn't count the sick at the meat packing plants because it makes the rest of the state look bad. Not sure if they are counting the dead in those places. Florida only counts you dead from Corona if you are are a citizen of the State of Florida. If you are from out of state you don't count. Florida has hid lots of the nursing home deaths too. FOIA requests eventually get them but they have made a conscious effort to hide numbers. Every State seems to be not reporting nursing home deaths accurately. CDC official numbers are much lower than Johns Hopkins. They say it takes 3 weeks to tally the numbers but who knows? Once there are many truths who can tell any more?

I hate to ask this but I'm totally curious - is this a red state VS blue state thing in regards to reporting? Do you think some states are inflating their numbers?

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: durnedwolf

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

ORIGINAL: Nomad

Colorado changing the way they count deaths. I wonder how many other states will follow suit?

https://www.foxnews.com/us/colorado-low ... eath-count

I' sure you will see lots of changes in the way deaths are counted or if they are counted at all. Nebraska doesn't count the sick at the meat packing plants because it makes the rest of the state look bad. Not sure if they are counting the dead in those places. Florida only counts you dead from Corona if you are are a citizen of the State of Florida. If you are from out of state you don't count. Florida has hid lots of the nursing home deaths too. FOIA requests eventually get them but they have made a conscious effort to hide numbers. Every State seems to be not reporting nursing home deaths accurately. CDC official numbers are much lower than Johns Hopkins. They say it takes 3 weeks to tally the numbers but who knows? Once there are many truths who can tell any more?

I hate to ask this but I'm totally curious - is this a red state VS blue state thing in regards to reporting? Do you think some states are inflating their numbers?

I believe that the CDC requested all deaths, no matter the underlying cause(s), to be labelled a primary covid death if the person is tested or presumed to have covid. They are still free to assign co-moribidity causes.

Colorado's Governor is a Democrat.

In the best of times, the causes of death is wrong at least 33% of the time, going over 50% of the time in certain states.

Occam's razor I think holds primarily true and it is not a red/blue state thing.

Here is an article on it:

Just How Inflated Are Coronavirus Death Counts, Exactly?
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/t ... ly-n394897

[Lowpe]

Italy to reopen borders on June 3, scrap quarantine in bid to restart tourism

ROME — Italy will reopen to tourists from early June and scrap a 14-day mandatory quarantine period, the government said Saturday, as it quickened the country’s exit from the coronavirus lockdown.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/italy-to- ... t-tourism/

[Lowpe]

Rigid Lockdowns vs. Relative Freedom: A Tale of Two Southern Governors

https://stream.org/rigid-lockdowns-vs-r ... governors/

[Lowpe]

Spot the Difference: Two governors reopened their states, but only one was accused of ‘human sacrifice’

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/spot-t ... -sacrifice

[JohnDillworth]

ORIGINAL: durnedwolf

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

ORIGINAL: Nomad

Colorado changing the way they count deaths. I wonder how many other states will follow suit?

https://www.foxnews.com/us/colorado-low ... eath-count

I' sure you will see lots of changes in the way deaths are counted or if they are counted at all. Nebraska doesn't count the sick at the meat packing plants because it makes the rest of the state look bad. Not sure if they are counting the dead in those places. Florida only counts you dead from Corona if you are are a citizen of the State of Florida. If you are from out of state you don't count. Florida has hid lots of the nursing home deaths too. FOIA requests eventually get them but they have made a conscious effort to hide numbers. Every State seems to be not reporting nursing home deaths accurately. CDC official numbers are much lower than Johns Hopkins. They say it takes 3 weeks to tally the numbers but who knows? Once there are many truths who can tell any more?

I hate to ask this but I'm totally curious - is this a red state VS blue state thing in regards to reporting? Do you think some states are inflating their numbers?

I hate to ask this but I'm totally curious - is this a red state VS blue state thing in regards to reporting? Do you think some states are inflating their numbers?

Not sure but don't think so. What is also interesting is what States are opening dispite not meeting CDC guidelines. You might ask why a state would do that? Economics, real or what they want to seem real. A state that mandates closed business needs to pay unemployment benefits to those that are unemployed due to state orders to close business. Don't want to pay unemployment benefits? No problem. Announce that all business are open. Anyone refusing to work in those business, not matter how dangerous, loses their unemployment benefits. Not great choices there

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

ORIGINAL: durnedwolf

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth



I' sure you will see lots of changes in the way deaths are counted or if they are counted at all. Nebraska doesn't count the sick at the meat packing plants because it makes the rest of the state look bad. Not sure if they are counting the dead in those places. Florida only counts you dead from Corona if you are are a citizen of the State of Florida. If you are from out of state you don't count. Florida has hid lots of the nursing home deaths too. FOIA requests eventually get them but they have made a conscious effort to hide numbers. Every State seems to be not reporting nursing home deaths accurately. CDC official numbers are much lower than Johns Hopkins. They say it takes 3 weeks to tally the numbers but who knows? Once there are many truths who can tell any more?

I hate to ask this but I'm totally curious - is this a red state VS blue state thing in regards to reporting? Do you think some states are inflating their numbers?

I hate to ask this but I'm totally curious - is this a red state VS blue state thing in regards to reporting? Do you think some states are inflating their numbers?

Not sure but don't think so. What is also interesting is what States are opening dispite not meeting CDC guidelines. You might ask why a state would do that? Economics, real or what they want to seem real. A state that mandates closed business needs to pay unemployment benefits to those that are unemployed due to state orders to close business. Don't want to pay unemployment benefits? No problem. Announce that all business are open. Anyone refusing to work in those business, not matter how dangerous, loses their unemployment benefits. Not great choices there

Let us not forget that the CDC and doctors want to fight the virus. They don't have to worry about the economy, education, the public's other concerns, and other things.

If the employee is recovering from Covid-19, taking care of someone who has it, and/or on quarantine otherwise for exposure, they will not lose their job.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

Another explanation of why wearing masks help stop the spread. Not entirely sure it this works for girls too

I think the write-up Lowpe posted (#7765) is much more convincing.

Most of that write up focused on N95 masks. Most countries have asked people not use those due to the need by specialists in front line services and medicine.

The article didn't actually include the very relevant statistics about reduction in passing the disease to someone else while using a mask, and the smaller percentage chance of the person wearing to catch something. I posted those earlier in the study. You have to thin about situations that might be different than your own. Here, public transit needs people to wear masks to protect workers and other travellers.

A surgical or cloth mask doesn't restrict your breath and does not give you a higher does of your own Covid (if that is even possible. I'd have to read linked studies to really confirm that but they're only noted, not linked, and not quoted with any statistics). If it's coming out your nose it's already in your nose, so how does that make it more dangerous? [:D]

This is mostly an opinion piece. However masks are required now in many areas for good reason. To protect others even if you don't care whether you catch it.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Spot the Difference: Two governors reopened their states, but only one was accused of ‘human sacrifice’

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/spot-t ... -sacrifice

Spot the Difference(s)!

Looking objectively, beyond politics and headlines, maybe something in the objective data and differences might seem ... different?

(The article quoted is only concerned with media and headlines, not the actual different situations of the two states. Not being in or from either I'm not the expert, but I can already see some ... differences.) [;)]

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

Another explanation of why wearing masks help stop the spread. Not entirely sure it this works for girls too

I think the write-up Lowpe posted (#7765) is much more convincing.

Most of that write up focused on N95 masks. Most countries have asked people not use those due to the need by specialists in front line services and medicine.

The article didn't actually include the very relevant statistics about reduction in passing the disease to someone else while using a mask, and the smaller percentage chance of the person wearing to catch something. I posted those earlier in the study. You have to thin about situations that might be different than your own. Here, public transit needs people to wear masks to protect workers and other travellers.

A surgical or cloth mask doesn't restrict your breath and does not give you a higher does of your own Covid (if that is even possible. I'd have to read linked studies to really confirm that but they're only noted, not linked, and not quoted with any statistics). If it's coming out your nose it's already in your nose, so how does that make it more dangerous? [:D]

This is mostly an opinion piece. However masks are required now in many areas for good reason. To protect others even if you don't care whether you catch it.

Respiratory virus shedding in exhaled breath and efficacy of face masks
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0843-2

Why is Sweden not recommending face masks to the public?
https://www.thelocal.se/20200514/explai ... the-public

[JohnDillworth]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

ORIGINAL: durnedwolf




I hate to ask this but I'm totally curious - is this a red state VS blue state thing in regards to reporting? Do you think some states are inflating their numbers?

I hate to ask this but I'm totally curious - is this a red state VS blue state thing in regards to reporting? Do you think some states are inflating their numbers?

Not sure but don't think so. What is also interesting is what States are opening dispite not meeting CDC guidelines. You might ask why a state would do that? Economics, real or what they want to seem real. A state that mandates closed business needs to pay unemployment benefits to those that are unemployed due to state orders to close business. Don't want to pay unemployment benefits? No problem. Announce that all business are open. Anyone refusing to work in those business, not matter how dangerous, loses their unemployment benefits. Not great choices there

Let us not forget that the CDC and doctors want to fight the virus. They don't have to worry about the economy, education, the public's other concerns, and other things.

If the employee is recovering from Covid-19, taking care of someone who has it, and/or on quarantine otherwise for exposure, they will not lose their job.

I hope that's true, I don't know that's true. Lets take the case of the meat packing plants. Already a dangerous job and now we have added Covid. Everyone gets sick, people die we close the plants. Presidents says meat is essential, invokes the defense production act and forces the plants open. Employees can't claim unemployment, they can't not report to work or they lose their jobs. They continue to get sick and die. State decides that makes the numbers look bad so they stop reporting those numbers. I assume if the numbers were good they would report them no? So, workers getting sick and dying, plant can't close, workers have no choice but to report, still getting sick, not information available as to how sick. What could possibly be worse? Sending Lawyers, and lobbyists and Senators to Washington to make sure the plant is protected against any liability. What protection do the workers have?????? ZERO. This is called exploitation. This is wrong. This is immoral. This is America in 2020

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

Another explanation of why wearing masks help stop the spread. Not entirely sure it this works for girls too

I think the write-up Lowpe posted (#7765) is much more convincing.

Most of that write up focused on N95 masks. Most countries have asked people not use those due to the need by specialists in front line services and medicine.

The article didn't actually include the very relevant statistics about reduction in passing the disease to someone else while using a mask, and the smaller percentage chance of the person wearing to catch something. I posted those earlier in the study. You have to thin about situations that might be different than your own. Here, public transit needs people to wear masks to protect workers and other travellers.

A surgical or cloth mask doesn't restrict your breath and does not give you a higher does of your own Covid (if that is even possible. I'd have to read linked studies to really confirm that but they're only noted, not linked, and not quoted with any statistics). If it's coming out your nose it's already in your nose, so how does that make it more dangerous? [:D]

This is mostly an opinion piece. However masks are required now in many areas for good reason. To protect others even if you don't care whether you catch it.

If it is coming out of your nose and you breathe it back in, you would be increasing yourviral load - some of which may get to your lungs.

I think that the masks would help for those workers at a meat packing plant taking those long bus rides. The same thing for field workers on a bus. Even just car pooling.

[obvert]

An interesting critique of conservative media coverage of Covid written by conservative Max Diamond.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/ ... -pandemic/

While the coronavirus skepticism from Fox News is fairly well-known — everything from now-former Fox Business host Trish Regan calling coverage of the pandemic an “impeachment scam” to Laura Ingraham tagging the Democratic Party as “The Pandemic Party” — an ecosystem of lesser-known but influential conservative publications has similarly responded to the crisis with dismissal, scorn and baseless theories.

I know this ecosystem firsthand — I’m a libertarian-leaning conservative and have contributed to the Washington Examiner, the Federalist and the now-defunct Weekly Standard. I believe in the principles of limited government and in the exploration of political ideas that more traditional, often left-of-center news sources don’t. But in this grave moment, conservative media has failed: More than just being out of sync with experts, much of conservative media has viewed this pandemic through an excessively partisan lens, and often seems to care more about how it impacts politics than people’s lives.

--------------------------

Clearly, every day that the country is in lockdown mode, working people risk losing incomes, health coverage and savings. But the reason we’re staying at home is that, according to the experts, not the commentariat, the virus’s spread is worse than the alternative: It has been more than two weeks, for example, since White House coronavirus task force member Anthony S. Fauci estimated that U.S. coronavirus deaths could top 100,000. But many conservative writers are so dismissive, or have such an anathema to this nuance, that they choose to focus on only one side of the problem.

--------------------------

And there are examples of ideological coverage from the left. The knee-jerk reaction of some progressives to use this national crisis as an opportunity to promote Medicare-for-all is similarly partisan. But even so, it is far less insidious than the coverage seen throughout conservative media that downplays the severity of the epidemic: It doesn’t risk giving people the premature impression that it is safe to continue living as normal.

Conservative commentators are at their best when they focus, in good faith, on issues they see missing in mainstream coverage. It would be useful to apply conservative principles to an examination of facts on the ground: to promote serious free-market solutions to our national testing shortage; or to influence stay-at-home policies that balance federal power with the preservation of local authority. Unfortunately, much of conservative media has chosen to use a pandemic for the purpose of scoring political points and denouncing ideological adversaries.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth




Not sure but don't think so. What is also interesting is what States are opening dispite not meeting CDC guidelines. You might ask why a state would do that? Economics, real or what they want to seem real. A state that mandates closed business needs to pay unemployment benefits to those that are unemployed due to state orders to close business. Don't want to pay unemployment benefits? No problem. Announce that all business are open. Anyone refusing to work in those business, not matter how dangerous, loses their unemployment benefits. Not great choices there

Let us not forget that the CDC and doctors want to fight the virus. They don't have to worry about the economy, education, the public's other concerns, and other things.

If the employee is recovering from Covid-19, taking care of someone who has it, and/or on quarantine otherwise for exposure, they will not lose their job.

I hope that's true, I don't know that's true. Lets take the case of the meat packing plants. Already a dangerous job and now we have added Covid. Everyone gets sick, people die we close the plants. Presidents says meat is essential, invokes the defense production act and forces the plants open. Employees can't claim unemployment, they can't not report to work or they lose their jobs. They continue to get sick and die. State decides that makes the numbers look bad so they stop reporting those numbers. I assume if the numbers were good they would report them no? So, workers getting sick and dying, plant can't close, workers have no choice but to report, still getting sick, not information available as to how sick. What could possibly be worse? Sending Lawyers, and lobbyists and Senators to Washington to make sure the plant is protected against any liability. What protection do the workers have?????? ZERO. This is called exploitation. This is wrong. This is immoral. This is America in 2020

I believe that you are incorrect. Maybe read this, I believe it has been posted before:

Meat and Poultry Processing Workers and Employers
Interim Guidance from CDC and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA)

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... oyers.html

[Cap Mandrake]

State unemployment compensation funds are nominally paid for by employers and employees in a prospective fashion. This is quite a rational system in the sense that it seems to let the taxpayers (in general) off the hook. Of course, it's not really "insurance" in the truest sense because there is no risk adjustment, in fact, perversely, those at the lowest risk of needing it pay the most..but hey..it's government.

The good news is the money goes into a fund to be paid out when needed. The bad news is essentially NO STATE planned for a downturn as historically disastrous as the artificial situation provoked by COVID 19. California's fund was supposed to last 20 months in a standard downturn. It lasted about 5 weeks. It's gone. California is BORROWING money from the feds which has to be paid back. The feds are BORROWING it from T-bill purchasers and IT has to be paid back. Fortunately, the economic outlook is so bad, half the world is rushing to buy US T-bills because they are "safe". [:)]

Many other states are in the same s***swirl. God only knows how many municipal BK's are on the horizon. The point is...the costs of the lockdown are heating up.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: witpqs



I think the write-up Lowpe posted (#7765) is much more convincing.

Most of that write up focused on N95 masks. Most countries have asked people not use those due to the need by specialists in front line services and medicine.

The article didn't actually include the very relevant statistics about reduction in passing the disease to someone else while using a mask, and the smaller percentage chance of the person wearing to catch something. I posted those earlier in the study. You have to thin about situations that might be different than your own. Here, public transit needs people to wear masks to protect workers and other travellers.

A surgical or cloth mask doesn't restrict your breath and does not give you a higher does of your own Covid (if that is even possible. I'd have to read linked studies to really confirm that but they're only noted, not linked, and not quoted with any statistics). If it's coming out your nose it's already in your nose, so how does that make it more dangerous? [:D]

This is mostly an opinion piece. However masks are required now in many areas for good reason. To protect others even if you don't care whether you catch it.

If it is coming out of your nose and you breathe it back in, you would be increasing yourviral load - some of which may get to your lungs.

I think that the masks would help for those workers at a meat packing plant taking those long bus rides. The same thing for field workers on a bus. Even just car pooling.

As mentioned, anything you or I say is baseless conjecture. Objective medical studies are the only thing that matters to sort these things out and for some I've seen wearing masks helps to prevent passing airborne viruses.

I do think you're missing the part about that same viral load having just passed out of your nose and going through your mask on the way out. Viruses are small.