Help needed - MWIF naval counter descriptions

[wosung]

These are probably counters to represent parts of a massive German naval build up plan, which was discussed in the German navy 1938/39.

This "Z-plan" was formally adopted in spring 1939, as Hitler assured Raeder that he wouldn't be in need of the Navy until 1946.

German sources themself differ in the figures for the Z-Plan, a sign for the typical megalomaniac, polycratic Nazi-planning.

Note, that most Z-plan figures meant the complete navy around 1946, not only the additional ships. It consisted of the following ships:

6 H-class BB (ships H, J, K, L, M, N, with 40,6 cm main batteries)

4 BB (2 Bismarck, 2 Scharnhorst class)

+3 CV (1 Graf Zeppelin, ship B [Zeppelin class], 1 Seydlitz [Hipper Class cruiser conversion, 18 A/c]) Additionally, during WW2 Kriegsmarine had contemplated completing the French carriers Joffre and Painlevé and converting the passenger liners Europe Potsdam and Gneisenau.

7-8 CA (Hipper, Blücher, Prinz Eugen, Lützow [1940 sold to USSR], Seydlitz, plus the 3 pocket-battleships Deutschland/Lützow [renamed on Hitlers' orders, "because Germany can't go down"], Scheer, Graf Spee)

13-24 light cruisers (new M-class ships M, N, O, P, Q,R, 7,800 tons, 35,5 kts., 8x150mm, 2x4 TT), 22-36 scout cruisers (there within: SP1-3: 6,300 tons, , 36 kts., 6x150mm, 2x5TT), 68-70 DD, 78-90 Torpedo-boats, 229-249 U-boats.

So, the ship names, you listed, might be pre-planning fiction. Just laid down ships weren't christened. Derfflinger at least was the name of a German BC in Hippers squadron at Jutland.

Sources:
Conways' all the World's fighting ships 1922-1946, pp. 220-235.
Cajus Becker, Das Bildbuch der deutschen Kriegsmarine 1939-1945, pp. 42-50.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

Terje sent me the USSR and German naval writeups last week. I formatted the USSR ones today. Here are a couple of examples.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

2nd and last in the series.

[Mziln]

Commissioned the Sevastopol in November 1914, the Parizskaya Kommuna was a Gungut class battleship. She received her new name in 1921 from the Bolshevik government, and in 1929 she was transferred to the Black Sea Fleet where all the dreadnoughts had been lost during the revolution.

After all the dreadnoughts in the Black Sea Fleet were lost

– or –

After the dreaodnught in the Black Sea Fleet was lost

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: Mziln

Commissioned the Sevastopol in November 1914, the Parizskaya Kommuna was a Gungut class battleship. She received her new name in 1921 from the Bolshevik government, and in 1929 she was transferred to the Black Sea Fleet where all the dreadnoughts had been lost during the revolution.

After all the dreadnoughts in the Black Sea Fleet were lost

– or –

After the dreaodnught in the Black Sea Fleet was lost

You are of course correct. The proper sentence would be the first one, as there were more than one dreadnought in that fleet.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Mziln
Commissioned the Sevastopol in November 1914, the Parizskaya Kommuna was a Gungut class battleship. She received her new name in 1921 from the Bolshevik government, and in 1929 she was transferred to the Black Sea Fleet where all the dreadnoughts had been lost during the revolution.

After all the dreadnoughts in the Black Sea Fleet were lost

– or –

After the dreaodnught in the Black Sea Fleet was lost

I see nothing wrong with the original sentence. "had been lost" is the proper tense since the loss of the dreadnoughts had occurred years before. It could be modified to show a stronger causality link "since ... lost there during ...". But that assumes additional information as to the purpose of her relocation. As the sentence exists, the causality might not exist and the relationship just coincidence.

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: Mziln
Commissioned the Sevastopol in November 1914, the Parizskaya Kommuna was a Gungut class battleship. She received her new name in 1921 from the Bolshevik government, and in 1929 she was transferred to the Black Sea Fleet where all the dreadnoughts had been lost during the revolution.

After all the dreadnoughts in the Black Sea Fleet were lost

– or –

After the dreaodnught in the Black Sea Fleet was lost

I see nothing wrong with the original sentence. "had been lost" is the proper tense since the loss of the dreadnoughts had occurred years before. It could be modified to show a stronger causality link "since ... lost there during ...". But that assumes additional information as to the purpose of her relocation. As the sentence exists, the causality might not exist and the relationship just coincidence.

the original sentence was "...after all the dreadnoughts in the Black Sea Fleet was lost during the revolution"
Since the "thing" that was lost is "all the dreadnoughts", it should be were not was. (unless my brain is fried atm, it was, they were)

[Shannon V. OKeets]

Oh. I'll change it to "had been lost" in the text file.

[Mziln]

ORIGINAL: Mziln

Commissioned the Sevastopol in November 1914, the Parizskaya Kommuna was a Gungut class battleship. She received her new name in 1921 from the Bolshevik government, and in 1929 she was transferred to the Black Sea Fleet where all the dreadnoughts had been lost during the revolution.

This was my attempt at a simplification of the description [:D]

[CBoehm]

ORIGINAL: terje439

nope they are still unfinished. I'll mail the different files etc to CBoehm then.

ok I did the ENTIRE danish navy pfuuu *hard work* ...and its in the mail for Terje ...

[Norden_slith]

ORIGINAL: terje439

Well I am gonna bring this thread back to were it was supposed to be [:D][:D]

As you all expected, it is time for me to show my incapabilities to search for ships on the web [;)]

Todays topic will be.....Germany.
My thoughts are that alot of these ships might be fictional ships, but please prove me wrong [:)]

CV Kleist
CV Yorck
CV Clausewitz
CV Barbarossa (in the wif ship list written with the German "double s")
CVL Elbe
CA von Mackensen
CA Derfflinger

Not too hard. The germans didnt have any carriers except the halfdone "Graf Zeppelin", so all the CV and CVL are fictional.
The CA's are fictional too, Derfflinger was a WW1 BC's.

Werent there more fictional ships? I remember something like a BB "Friedrich d. Grosse" in WIF and some more BB's?

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: Norden

ORIGINAL: terje439

Well I am gonna bring this thread back to were it was supposed to be [:D][:D]

As you all expected, it is time for me to show my incapabilities to search for ships on the web [;)]

Todays topic will be.....Germany.
My thoughts are that alot of these ships might be fictional ships, but please prove me wrong [:)]

CV Kleist
CV Yorck
CV Clausewitz
CV Barbarossa (in the wif ship list written with the German "double s")
CVL Elbe
CA von Mackensen
CA Derfflinger

Not too hard. The germans didnt have any carriers except the halfdone "Graf Zeppelin", so all the CV and CVL are fictional.
The CA's are fictional too, Derfflinger was a WW1 BC's.

Werent there more fictional ships? I remember something like a BB "Friedrich d. Grosse" in WIF and some more BB's?

Well what you say is true, and yet it is not the entire truth. "Laid down I in 1938, the Peter Strasser, or Flugzeugträder B, was planned to be the sister ship of the Graf
Zeppelin. Construction were halted in 1939, and the hull was scrapped in 1940"
Furthermore the CA Seydlitz was being rebuilt into a carrier.
About "Fr. der Grosse", Ordered as the lead ship in its class, the Fredrich der Grosse was laid down in July 1939, but was scrapped due to the outbreak of the war

This is why I post these posts, although I am almost certain that some ships are fictional, there is this tiny possibility that I have missed some small remark in a book somewhere.

But yes there are indeed quite a few fictional ships included in the game.
Terje

[YohanTM2]

ORIGINAL: CBoehm

ORIGINAL: terje439

nope they are still unfinished. I'll mail the different files etc to CBoehm then.

ok I did the ENTIRE danish navy pfuuu *hard work* ...and its in the mail for Terje ...

Good God man, how did you find the time? [:D]

[Shannon V. OKeets]

For all the people who are working on text writeups for the units.

I have solved the problem I was having with using letters from non-English alphabets, so please use them where it is appropriate.

By non-English alphabets I mean Swedish, German, French, Danish, Dutch, etc..

Previously I was getting garbage replacements for those on the screen but the problem has been fixed.

[Froonp]

Gr€át ñëws !!!
Gó !!!