AAR swift vs fochinell

[fochinell]

In Italy - surprisingly [;)][:D] - a few sweeps, not very sucessful, but Gavin is showing the flag [:'(]

[:(]

Some poor timing on my part and the small sortie total mean Werner is able to concentrate on the easy meat of the P-40's and hammer them. In my defence it's just too easy to hack down damaged stragglers... but then my minions can rightfully complain that I knew this and I still didn't send enough support out for them. But who cares about P-39's and P-40's anyway?


Mean while the NJG have ceded the night skies to BC yet again. [:)]

[wernerpruckner]

19th September 1943:

once again all daylight action in Italy.
Raids against the RR Sulmona, PORT Pescara, A/F Metato & Perugia
Sweeps against Perugia and Aquino
40 losses for Gavin and ZERO for me [:D]

but next the night action...damn those NIs......10 nightfighters lost....2 of them He219...[X(][:(]
BC bombed Dortmund and his Mossiebombers once again visited Berlin

10:45 losses.......did I say I hate night intruders......[:@]

[fochinell]

40 losses for Gavin and ZERO for me [:D]



Even by my standards that's a ****ing bad turn. Those Airacobras are almost as bad as the Spits (36 lost this turn, most from the 350th FG).

but next the night action...damn those NIs......10 nightfighters lost....2 of them He219...[X(][:(]

That's Stab NJG 1 at 100% losses since the start of the game... good to see the dangerous SN-2-equipped He219 taking casualties.

BC bombed Dortmund and his Mossiebombers once again visited Berlin

I normally hit Berlin with the mossies about 10-15 times per month, just to interrupt OberKommando der Luftwaffe's propaganda announcements about the enormous numbers of slightly-scratched Spitfires and Airacobras dropping out of the sky

Meanwhile the 355th FG re-equips with the P-38L to give me 3 P-38 Groups in the 8th AF, while the 352nd FG upgrades to the P-47D. All I need now is some good weather. [:'(]

[wernerpruckner]

20th September 1943

forgot to make notes [:(]
all action in Italy, BC also active

11:40 losses


21st September 1943

better weather in the West, but there is still fog in Germany
This time the raids in the West were not tactical - Gavin attacked some secondary industrial sites: AFAC Erla Antwerpen. POWER Flandre Brabant and ARM General Motors.

In Italy once again many RRs were attacked ( Arezzo, Siena, Foligno, Terni ) also one of the POWER plants was attacked.

BC was once again active and attacked Rothensee-Elbe PORT; also the usual midnight Mossie express to Berlin.

7:36 losses

[Alfred]

Swift,
 
I may have missed this, but are you reorganising the aircraft production industry.  Are you concentrating R+D on any particular models.
 
Alfred

[fochinell]

Are you concentrating R+D on any particular models.

For some strange reason Swift refuses to convert his entire production to the D.520...

[Hard Sarge]

I don't know about the 520, but in my game, maybe the IAR 81, it would be a good soild backup model
 
and while not a game thing, I think it would of been interesting, if the Avia had a chance to grow, at the time it came out, it compared very well with the Early Spit and 109, if it could of learned and been expanded and improved, it may of been one of the better planes of the war, as it is now, almost nobody knows anything about it
 
I think you got some houserules going, but old Swifty likes the TA 152
 
hmmm, I wonder how many people will even give some of the "interesting" models a chance
 
most people go nuts for the 262, while it is the 335 that is the real late war killer
 
I know the old 109K was bypassed since it has such short range, but in fact, it may be one of the longer legged 109s built
 
it is a shame, but most gamers, are going to try and streamline there production, and maybe build one Nightfighter, one dayfighter and maybe, one twin, and then miss out on all the goodies there are to be had
 
(night fighter, I would guess most will try for the 219, but we got the 154, the 188, the 388 and the 88G each and everyone can and is a killer)
 
(not to count the way the 110 grows, and the oddball 262 and 335 nightfighter models)
 
(dayfighters, ahhhh, 190D, 152C, 109K, 262 (can count this as a twin also) 162, 55, 56, 2005, 335 (again, could be seen as a twin)
 
(Twins, the 110s, 210, 410s, the 262, the 335)
 
and most can be set up to be AS fighters, or Heavy fighters, or carry rockets
 
and of course, there are the High Alt fighters, the 109H and the 152H (I want to bring in the 190C but may have to save that for later on, as well as the 209 and 309)
 
LOL, now you got me wanting to go play around, instead of getting back to work
 
 

[wernerpruckner]

Alfred:

R&D - I do not do much research in my games, I try to bring the new toys into the game to a more or less historical time.
I know that it is possible to research the ME262 for 12/43 but I do not need the bird that soon.

I usually research an build everything that is possible - even though I know that the A/C is a total loss. I do this to simulate that the Germans did not know what would be the next good A/C.
So you can expect - and Gavin has seen most of this in other of our PBEMs - to see everything at least for one time in combat! ( Gavin - the D.520 had made its appearance, and it sucked as usual [:'(] )
I also invest often a lot of research/construction/building into bottlenecked A/Cs ( this OBOA has several of this A/Cs....G55,Bf109G-10,He219, Ta154, Me262B.....are more or less heavy bottlenecked ) - but for several of these A/C it is worth it !!!!! Moskito vs Mosquito is always great to see [:D]

I do streamlighten the production a bit - usually the Co-Axis Allied use Co-Axis A/C or a variant of the Bf109G(6/10/14) [ there are exceptions [:)] a Me210 unit, a few FW fighterbombers....]
So with the time I usually put either the G55 Centauro or the Re2005 Archer as the top Co-Axis A/C in production of most of the CoAxis industry.

As most of the A/C have their own "right" time in te game:
Do217 nightfighters are great in the beginning of the game, because they are less affected by windows and other counter meassures.
WildeSau A/C (Bf109G6/u4N and Fw190A-5/Uxx) are also great for a few months....but only the FW variant stays long enough, because the Bf upgrades too soon in the game to the day fighter variants.

I also like to stay in line with most units - Zerstörer will always be heavy fighters in my games ( Me110,210,410, later Me262 with rockets and ultimativly the Do335 ); the same for the fighterbomber units - slow as flying bricks with a heavy load of rockets, but when you are able to bring them close to the bombers

My main dayfighter A/C are for 1943 the Fw190A and the Bf109G-6 ( with a few G-5 units ), in 1944 that will slowly change to the Fw190D and Bf109G-14.
In the Middle of 1944 the production of the Me262 will start, but I mostly use them for the heavy fighter units, also the Bf109G-10 will start around this time.
In autumn 1944 the Bf109K will be produced ( but the G-14 will stay as main variant for a certain time )
At the end of 1944 the Do335, the Ta152 will be produced
And in 1945 the He162 and several other late war A/Cs.

[wernerpruckner]

but old Swifty likes the TA 152

yes I do, but I also like the Bf109K and the Do335 [:D]

why you ask:
the Bf109K is the ultimate Mustang killer in the game, yes it has nearly no range, but in its range it is deadly
the Ta152 is a cool bird, probably the best allround fighter in the game
and the Do335 has very long legs - distract the escorts with tons of Ta152s and Kurfürsts, and the Do335 will finish the bombers.

I do not like the Me262 as fughter very much, it is easy to kill ( if your opponent knows how to put his escorts right ) - its only purpose for me is as rocket fireing bomberboxes breaking heavy fighter...after them the Do335 will finish it [:D]

As for nightfighters - here it is most often the game stone-scissors-paper !!
Each nightfighter has its prime time !!!
put for sure the best allround NF for most of the war is the He219, but it has short legs for an NF
the Ta154 Moskito is THE Mosquito killer for a few month in early 44
but for me the ultimate NF is the Ju88G - fast, very fast...best equipment, good guns...
And for fun in 1945 Kurt Welters Me262Bs for Mosquito trashing [:'(]


Most of what I said here is for the "old" BtR and the OBOAs by JCL

For the new version......ahhhhh so many new toys........more different version of most A/C........ahhhhh if you only would see what there all is in the beta [:D]

[wernerpruckner]

22nd September 1943
 
the usual dirty work in Italy and the West:
RR Terni, RADAR Cinterna di Latina, and a CHEM site in Italy
and RR Serqueux and CHEM Hoechst-Plastiques in the West
BC active....PORT Hannover Mittelland
 
I have a new ace - the well known H.Herrman of the Stab/JG 300 has now 5 kills!!!
Good old Hajo - the inventor of the Wilde Sau !!! [:)]  - in RL this guy is still alive, and has wrote several books.
 
 
5:20 losses

[Rebel Yell]

ORIGINAL: swift

ahhhhh if you only would see what there all is in the beta [:D]

If only....

[fochinell]

Another day, another outbreak of insane rage at Evil Galactic Darklord HQ:

Firstly, yet another attempt to dodge the diabolic weather (and I mean weather) ends up with two lead B-17 groups taking on the might of the Luftwaffe instead of the ten I had planned. [:@] At least all the escorts took off this time.

More outrage and tears over the bombing, as my attempt to hit the Krupp Germania Werft UFAC north-east of Kiel (777,145) ends up flying south of the target to hit the invisible Neumunster Flugzeugwerke; this seems to happen every time I try and attack that target.

Then some typically useless medium bomber attacks on factories in Italy (and tactical targets in Holland) end up with excessive bomber losses to Flak.

The life of a galactic Dark Lord is never an easy one. Time to execute some of my unfortunate subordinates to improve my mood.

OK, time for StrategyTalk, that section of the forum where I explain the tricks I try and use as Allies for targeting.

Firstly, until the 8th AF get the capability (size of bomber force and long-range escorts), BC need to do some of the work hitting strategic targets. The large RUBBER, STEEL and CHEM factories are useful targets that H2S-lead BC raids should hit. I use 5 Group to do this, while the rest of BC hit the larger RR targets or ports in urban areas to build up the terror score. In all cases high morale leading units are needed, with about 4 Groups of B-17 or more to stand a chance of doing damage if your lead unit doesn't nail the target in daylight.

Target systems worth substantial effort are, in my opinion, RUBBER and STEEL, followed by CHEM. A few good raids on the really big factories can really hurt these critical industries, while they have subsidiary factories within tactical bomber range which can supplement your critical dependence upon the 8th and 15th AF to do SB damage. I've hit POWER before, but there are just too many well-distributed sites to manage to sustain serious damage before repair rates pull it out of critical damage. At the beginning of the game your bomber force is too small to sustain a realistic campaign against a large number of targets, so concentration pays off.

I've tried AFAC and (in my last game with Werner) EFAC, but while I think they can cause some useful annoyance and disrupt Axis aircraft production, they can't cripple it - largely due to the poor bombing accuracy involved once the sites get substantive Flak defence (and Werner sticks to his word on Flak limits).

The only game where I think SB targetting really paid off against a human opponent was when I went after RUBBER with extreme ruthlessness and repetition while building up TERROR (this meant hitting RUBBER sites all the way out to extreme range with every bombing force available - 2TAF Mossie FB's, Typhoons, even P-47 fighter-bombing - as often as possible to keep them all over 90% damage) and then using my increasing forces to hit CHEM and ARM factories while keeping RUBBER critical.

I was turning most of the urban areas of Germany black in that game by launching maximum-effort BC raids with creep-back factored in to ensure bombing concentration (e.g. plot waves of bombers to look like an intersecting fan across the area of the city you want to devastate, as creep-back will see succeeding bomber units bombing back along the line of approach - you don't want to hit black areas of devastation while some areas remain untouched). In my last couple of games with Werner I've gone down to using one Group of BC per night; the level of additional terror damage is lower, but the morale drop with BC units is substantial and you will end up with units constantly hitting open country rather than the biggest city if they get below 40%. Using 20% of BC every night also reduces attrition to miniscule levels while Werner risks high attritional losses to my NI's plotted over active NJG AF's or chickens out of sending up his night-fighters entirely. [:D]

This time round I'm going to hit a variety of systems, but with a concentration on transportation targets which should pay off with a good SB and TERROR score. But first I'm going to have some fun allowing the 8th AF to fail against some specific targets like the UFACs and maybe ball-bearings with a blood-bath or two at Schweinfurt. Yee-haah!

[wernerpruckner]

23rd September 1943
´
good weather - lots of action

In Italy Gavin attacked various targets - RR Rome & L´Aquila, POWER Papigno Velino & Narni, PORT Pescara and the ARM Settebagni

Also in the West several heavy raids: RR Bremerhaven & Utrecht, AFAC Neumünster ( an old targeting bug - this future site is often attacked when someone attacks a certain UFAC site - there are/ were several such bugs in the game ), PORT Dunkirk, A/F Woensdrecht & Deelen.

BC was once again very active and bombed Bologna and Hamm
There was also the usual Berlin mossiebomber strike....

49:90 losses


24th September 1943

weather !!! [:)] resting day !
score is 2/6/10 ( AS/IND/TERROR)


25th September

weather is getting better, and the attacks go on.
Italy: RR Rome & Ancona & Littoria, STEEL Nero Montoro, POWER Papignollelino
West: RR Hohenbudberg, POWER Interencaut, STEEL Lambernart, RUBBER SASIC
BC: Cologne/Kalk

21:78 losses

here a picture of my aces - Hajo still alive, despite of the lurking NIs above his airbase [:'(]

[fochinell]

25th September 1943 another bad day at Supreme Evil Dark Lord HQ. Firstly the lead bomber/weather "feature" kicks in yet again and only 4 PFF B-17's go on the planned subsidiary 8th AF RR raid. Werner rightfully sees no need to bother with such a small bombing attack, ignores it and concentrates on a 2TAF supporting raid where the Spitfires fall out of the sky like wet tissue paper yet again (36 lost) [:(]. The life of a galactic Dark Lord is never an easy one [:@]

SB damage has hit a plateau from which it will be difficult to budge it while the weather remains so bad. This is disappointing as I was counting on getting to about 8 SB score during September before the full autumnal weather shafted me again. . Terror should continue to slowly accumulate as BC hits some of the smaller towns which as yet have escaped their notice.

Still, P-47D supplies are sufficient to upgrade the 353rd FG, so things aren't totally bad.

[wernerpruckner]

26.9.1943:

good weather
several bigger attacks...and my Luftwaffe got a bloody nose [:(]

Italy:
RR Rome/Tiburtina & Ancona & Fabriano and A/F Perugia
Italy is turning cherry-red beyond Florence....and there is not much I can do against it.

West:
STEEL August Thyssen ( main attack of the day ), CHEM St.Gobain, A/F Longuenesse & Woensdrecht, RUBBER Bergougman and RR St.Pol sur Mer

Night:
Mainz and Ravenna

63:71...very bad ratio this early in the war



27.9.1943:

All action in Italy, first raid from the now active Sardinia air bases.

POWER Narni, STEEL Nero Montero, RR Rome Littorio and Fabriano

The Stab units around Rome did very good this turn - Gavins Aircobra pilots are not pleased with his leadership.

1:32 losses


28.9.1943

resting turn for the Luftwaffe, not really good weather but Gavin flies several low level daylight sorties

RR Serqueneux, STEEL Lambernart, ARM Vlaardinge, PORT Le Trait

And in the night he attacked Schweinfurt

0:4 losses
major shutteling for the German forces.....maybe something to surprise Gavin [:D]

[fochinell]

Highlights so far were a destructive raid by the 8th AF on the Ruhr - one of the interim-level raids featuring heavy escort of a single, medium-sized force to a short-range target. [:'(]

Then in Italy the Airacobra massacre on 27th, when a P-39 bombing mission covering the path of the return leg of an A-20 raid strafes an empty A/F in the path of the pursuing 109's, who then get to feast on the flak cripples. [:@]

Supply of P-38L's is now sufficient for P-38H fighter squadrons in the 12th AF to re-equip, starting with the squadrons of the 31st FG. The P-38H's freed in this process will then re-equip the P-39 groups in the 12th AF; the AI anticipated this by re-equipping 81st FG. Normally the automatic upgrade is a real pain but for once it does what I want, as Airaoobra losses have been even higher than normal and sustaining 3 FG's on them is problematic. Besides, I really need those longer-ranged P-38H's to reach Werner's A/F's in Italy, now that OKL has implemented their courageous policy of retreating their Gruppen out of range of the mighty P-39's [:)]

Other activity in the MTO includes moving the 12th AF B-24 and B-26 Groups (6 and 4, respectively) alongside the P-38 squadrons to the Sardinian bases as they open up to allow strikes to the north-west of Italy to be mounted.

[fochinell]

OK, here's the situation at the end of September 1943 in terms of losses and top-scoring Minions of Doom.

First, those losses; weather has really restricted things this month, with only a couple of major deep penetration 8th AF attacks.

[fochinell]

Now for the top-scoring Minions of Doom:



The leading units are:

8th AF top three: 78th FG (P-47D) 72 kills; 56th FG (P-47D) 59 kills, 20th FG (P-38L) 56 kills, 19 Sqn (SPit IX) 23 kills.
9th AF top: 66 Sqn (Spit IX) 7 kills.
2 TAF top by type: 416 Sqn RCAF (Spit IX) 18 kills, 302 Polish Sqn (Spit Vb) 16 kills.
12th AF top by type: 95th FS (P-38H) 22 kills, 350th FG (P-39) 3 kills. Three of the four P-40 groups have one kill each, with the 81st FG (P-38H) on 2 kills.
Med Air Cmd by type: 145 Sqn (Spit IX) 12 kills, 93 Sqn (Spit Vb) 10 kills. None of the P-40 squadrons have a single kill.

Night-fighters: none of the MTO sqns have been active. Top scoring unit is 68 Sqn (Mossie NF II) 13 kills.

As you can see, the range problem in the MTO has severely limited the action since OKL displaced their units further north, with the P-38H fighter squadrons doing most of the fighting. Weather has really limited things for the 8th AF as well, so the overall kill claims and losses are pretty low.

[Hard Sarge]

You guys are bloody

[wernerpruckner]

bloody....this game ain´t bloody
you have not seen one of the games with me as Allied CinC [:D]