What´s this pictures history?

[goodboyladdie]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

There's good irrelevant and bad irrelevant.

I only know the good one. He has taught me a lot about this game. Does he have an evil twin? I know one got banned in Universe 32 for double registering. Was that him?

[AW1Steve]

ORIGINAL: goodboyladdie

ORIGINAL: Terminus

There's good irrelevant and bad irrelevant.

I only know the good one. He has taught me a lot about this game. Does he have an evil twin? I know one got banned in Universe 32 for double registering. Was that him?

[:D]

[whippleofd]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

ORIGINAL: Whipple

ORIGINAL: Ike99



Actors? There are many pictures from WW2 maestro that appear to be made by actors or ¨staged¨ or faked in some way when in fact they are not.

But it´s not suprising you pass judgement on this picture without a shred of any actual, historic record and when no one yet can point to where it came from or when.

Yes I will continue to look for some factual historic record on this picture and dismiss unfounded ¨opinions.¨

But I do like my history to be based upon some sort of credible facts and not just fashioned to the way I like it or simply what I ¨think¨.

I like the squid kissin the girl picture better than all the others ever posted. But then again I'm a hole-snipe and we didn't get out much. Or could it be the Ray-de-ation warping my mental capacities? No comments from you lady air-dales. [:-][:-][:D][:D]

Whipple

As the 1st airdale to respond I'd like to say that i resemble that, I mean resent that remark. No wonder they used to keep you down in the hole. [:D]

Don't you have a line to go stand in?[&:][:'(][:D]

Whipple

[tsimmonds]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

ORIGINAL: Terminus

There's good irrelevant and bad irrelevant.

[:D]And which is which? [:D]

Careful now....[;)]

[DuckofTindalos]

Yeah, the kitty sniper has you in his crosshairs...

[Reiryc]

ORIGINAL: Ike99

I´ve seen this picture around in several places but have never heard of where it came from or how.

I´m thinking it came from some Japanese propaganda film and is staged as there is an American flag laying in the dirt. But then it looks like there is an explosion happening in the background so maybe it is the slide in a film of actual combat or something. So I´m of different opinions. A very interesting picture either way though.

Anyone know the history behind this picture?

It might help to find an answer to provide a link of where you got this photo from.

[Ike99]

Um, Ike99, if you look at the photo of the box cover you gave in post #26...

The only box cover I have posted is from GMT´s game ¨Empire of the Sun¨ There is no fine print reading "We won't stop shooting! -1943 Tokyo theatre billboard advertisement" on the box cover.

Are you not the same fellow who accused U.S. soldiers of placing Japanese heads on the front of their tanks and presented a photo of a Japanese tank to make your point? I suggest you double check your "credible facts" before making a fool of yourself. You are clearly a victom of brainwashing...Find some new sources of information...

Excuse me, the only one who is making a fool of themselves and showing their ignorance is you and how you ¨think¨ your history and then dismiss what you don´t like.

Maybe, just maybe there might be some hope for you. Here is a book by John W. Dower. This man has a Phd. from Harvard, is a professor and historian. He has won a Pulitzer Prize for nonfiction. He is one of the leading experts on the Pacific War and Japanese and American relations today. This man doesn´t ¨think¨ history he knows history.

If you have any doubt as to what I said in the Iwo Jima thread I suggest you pick up his book ¨War Without Mercy: Race and Power in the Pacific War¨ here...

http://www.amazon.com/War-Without-Mercy ... 0394751728

There is a used copy for 4.95 it seems. So you have no excuse. After reading that book maybe you should send him an email, his email is on his site at the University he teaches. If you have any doubts or questions, ask him.

After you get done reading that book you can read....

Hell in the Pacific; From Pearl Harbor to Hiroshima and
Beyond

http://www.antiqbook.co.uk/boox/lit/44234.shtml

Another book on the War in the Pacific War without the white wash. Then perhaps you can find the film under the same with very rare, authentic footage.

Yes, you can do these things and get the full picture of the
Pacific War or you can keep to your nice, Hollywood style
good guy/bad guy, packaged history. You might not like what you find however.

That´s all I know to offer you....¨fellow¨

So let´s leave it at that and leave this thread to information on this picture.

Now back to your regular scheduled hunt for info on that picture. There was no credits given to that picture in the GMT box cover or rulebook. I sent off this email to the gamebox designer so maybe he has some information....

Hello Rodger.

I am curious as to the cover art you did for GMT´s ¨Empire of
the Sun¨ The cover art seems based upon a picture I have attached
here from the war. I am wondering if you have any information as to the origin of this picture.

Do you know where and how this picture came about?

Mario.

[tsimmonds]

The only box cover I have posted is from GMT´s game ¨Empire of the Sun¨ There is no fine print reading "We won't stop shooting! -1943 Tokyo theatre billboard advertisement" on the box cover.

Look again [;)]

[AW1Steve]

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

ORIGINAL: Terminus

There's good irrelevant and bad irrelevant.

[:D]And which is which? [:D]

Careful now....[;)]

[:D]Sorry , I didn't realize that he was pun-ing with your name. That's a little cheeky don't you think? [:D]

[tsimmonds]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve



[:D]And which is which? [:D]

Careful now....[;)]

[:D]Sorry , I didn't realize that he was pun-ing with your name. That's a little cheeky don't you think? [:D]

Not really; in fact I encourage it.[:'(][;)]

[tsimmonds]

ORIGINAL: goodboyladdie

ORIGINAL: Terminus

There's good irrelevant and bad irrelevant.

I only know the good one. He has taught me a lot about this game. Does he have an evil twin? I know one got banned in Universe 32 for double registering. Was that him?

There is neither good nor bad; only I am irrelevant.[;)]

[Ike99]

irrelevant- Look again

Hey! Wow! You right! [:D]

Someone said they did a search for that but I bet they didn´t try in Japanese. I bet that´s the ticket.

[Feinder]

Ike,

While alternative tellings of histories are indeed valuable, it is necessary to gather the broad base of knowledge. Yes, Dower's book has value, and it widens the base of knowledge that is available. However, by itself, or among it's it's few peers of similar perception, it amounts to only one stone in the foundation of knowledge. While many authors (and their devoted readers) would love to be ground breaking, paradign shattering, cornerstones of knowledge about a subject, the truth is, they very rarely (if ever) are. By waving the flag of Dower above all else, you fall into the same tunnel of myopathy that you accuse those that you disagree with.

The truth of the matter of the matter is
a. un-knowable in it's entirety
b. and yet the sum of all the parts, some parts more valueable than others but no part is irreplaceable.

A new perspective on an old subject is a good thing. But it's also important to keep that new perspective in perspective.

[mlees]

ORIGINAL: Ike99

irrelevant- Look again

Hey! Wow! You right! [:D]

Someone said they did a search for that but I bet they didn´t try in Japanese. I bet that´s the ticket.

I don't speak or read Japanese, so I can't effectively search those sources. If you can, I hope you have more success than I did.

From what little I can figure out, the poster in question is/was printed as an advertisement poster. (Advertiseing what, I am not sure.) Whether the soldiers in the poster were staged for the poster maker, or if they were from actual battle scene (war correspondent) records, I have no idea.

That poster appeared in a photo of a street scene (printed by the Tokyo newspaper, Ashahi Shimbun) that was taken in Tokyo, 1943.

I would suggest that the next step is to check with that paper archive section. Or, alternatively, you could ask the Art Director of GMT games, where they got permission to put that picture (i.e., what the source was) on their box cover. (They may refer you to the Asahi Shimbun. Heh.)

[Sabre21]

Hey guys
 
From my observation of the original photo posted at the top of this thread, the explosion and sky in the background was an added in backdrop. If you look carefully at the outline of the two guys, you will see just that...an outline, which indicates an added backdrop. You dont see that in the other black and white photo with the troops carrying the flag.
 
From a realistic perspective, and having spent a long time in the infantry myself, the guy taking the picure would not be in front of the guy throwing the grenade nor would the guy next to him just be lying there lacksadaisical like. He would either be taking cover from the upcoming blast or be firing his weapon suppressing the foe so his buddy could get his grenade off without getting whacked.
 
So if I wanted to be looking for the source of this pic, I would be looking at either the Japanese or US film making industry. This could very well have been a US made picture for either a WWII movie or propaganda, or it could have been Japanese. Either way it is definitely a staged scene.

[06 Maestro]

ORIGINAL: Ike99

Are you not the same fellow who accused U.S. soldiers of placing Japanese heads on the front of their tanks and presented a photo of a Japanese tank to make your point? I suggest you double check your "credible facts" before making a fool of yourself. You are clearly a victim of brainwashing...Find some new sources of information...

Excuse me, the only one who is making a fool of themselves and showing their ignorance is you and how you ¨think¨ your history and then dismiss what you don´t like.

Maybe, just maybe there might be some hope for you. Here is a book by John W. Dower. This man has a Phd. from Harvard, is a professor and historian. He has won a Pulitzer Prize for nonfiction. He is one of the leading experts on the Pacific War and Japanese and American relations today. This man doesn´t ¨think¨ history he knows history.

If you have any doubt as to what I said in the Iwo Jima thread I suggest you pick up his book ¨War Without Mercy: Race and Power in the Pacific War¨ here...

http://www.amazon.com/War-Without-Mercy ... 0394751728

There is a used copy for 4.95 it seems. So you have no excuse. After reading that book maybe you should send him an email, his email is on his site at the University he teaches. If you have any doubts or questions, ask him.

After you get done reading that book you can read....

Hell in the Pacific; From Pearl Harbor to Hiroshima and
Beyond

http://www.antiqbook.co.uk/boox/lit/44234.shtml

Another book on the War in the Pacific War without the white wash. Then perhaps you can find the film under the same with very rare, authentic footage.

Yes, you can do these things and get the full picture of the
Pacific War or you can keep to your nice, Hollywood style
good guy/bad guy, packaged history. You might not like what you find however.

That´s all I know to offer you....¨fellow¨

So let´s leave it at that and leave this thread to information on this picture.

Now back to your regular scheduled hunt for info on that picture. There was no credits given to that picture in the GMT box cover or rulebook. I sent off this email to the gamebox designer so maybe he has some information....

Hello Rodger.

I am curious as to the cover art you did for GMT´s ¨Empire of
the Sun¨ The cover art seems based upon a picture I have attached
here from the war. I am wondering if you have any information as to the origin of this picture.

Do you know where and how this picture came about?

Mario.

You have made some rather large and groundless presumptions about my views on the Pacific war. Nowhere have I stated that there were no crimes against Japanese soldiers, nowhere have I claimed that there was no racism on the part of American soldiers/marines. In fact, I have stated that more than once publicly on this forum-in places that you should have been able to see. What I have stated, which apparently you can't stand, is that Japan was a power that needed to be defeated, as its crimes against humanity were far too great to allow it to continue.

You also take a rather large leap of faith in my appreciation of Hollywood-the only good war U.S. war movie that I have seen was "Band of Brother's. Some others are not too bad, but for the most part, I can't sit through them. Why you would suppose that I get my historical knowledge from Hollywood is a mystery to me-unless fo course, you view all Americans as morons that hang on Hollywood's every clip-that is not how it is.

The fact that you would drag that silly photo onto the web questioning its authenticity is proof that you need to do considerably more reading to be brought up to speed.

Keep reading-now, let's leave it at that.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Sabre21

Hey guys

From my observation of the original photo posted at the top of this thread, the explosion and sky in the background was an added in backdrop. If you look carefully at the outline of the two guys, you will see just that...an outline, which indicates an added backdrop. You dont see that in the other black and white photo with the troops carrying the flag.

Yup, I see that. It's especially noticeable as a white border between the dark helmet of the lower soldier and the dark of the explosion behind him.

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: Sabre21

Hey guys

From my observation of the original photo posted at the top of this thread, the explosion and sky in the background was an added in backdrop. If you look carefully at the outline of the two guys, you will see just that...an outline, which indicates an added backdrop. You dont see that in the other black and white photo with the troops carrying the flag.

Yup, I see that. It's especially noticeable as a white border between the dark helmet of the lower soldier and the dark of the explosion behind him.

i am guessing this was a rear-screen projection technique... this would project light onto the rear of the subject (i.e. - the helmet) even though the object photographed is supposed to be dark. Thus, you could get a line seen between the foreground and background objects.

[Ike99]

The fact that you would drag that silly photo onto the web questioning its authenticity is proof that you need to do considerably more reading to be brought up to speed.

Keep reading-now, let's leave it at that.

One can be absolutely certain of something and at the same time be absolutely wrong. This ¨silly¨ photo as you like to call it. Your absolutely certain it´s staged and only people who need to do ¨considerably more reading to be brought up to speed¨ would question as to if it is a staged shot or an authentic picture from
combat.

And your qualifications for making such a definative statement?

You haven´t said your a photographer, you haven´t said your an expert on photography or any other type of expert and neither have you claimed to find any historical record for this photograph.

Your qualification for making this definative statement is ¨I think so¨

Ahhh...well move over historical fact and make room for 06 Maestro and ¨I think so¨ [8|]

The simple matter of fact is...you don´t know if that picture is stage or not and no matter how much you think so, until a record of it comes to light no one will.

As it seems that picture at one time was on billboards all around Tokio in 43´, has a name ¨We won´t stop shooting!¨ I´m thinking certainly it has a historical record of some sort. Certainly the Tokio Historical Society will have at least some information about its origin. If not, I´ll keep sending off emails to historical societies, universities and such until its record is found.

If it does come back as an actual combat picture....well honestly, I really don´t know what your going to say.

[mjk428]

ORIGINAL: Ike99

If it does come back as an actual combat picture....

It won't.

ORIGINAL: Sabre21

So if I wanted to be looking for the source of this pic, I would be looking at either the Japanese or US film making industry. This could very well have been a US made picture for either a WWII movie or propaganda, or it could have been Japanese. Either way it is definitely a staged scene.

Agreed.