RHS ship production

[Mistmatz]

Same numbers as Okami found in my installation. Latest location file added.

[el cid again]

OK guys - this is indeed confusing.

I had to reverse engineer it: the display does not show the pool at all - ever probably - but not at start for sure.

It DOES show the daily rate (in parentheses)

and it seems to show the total number of servicable yards (not those disabled) where you think it shows points.
1299 is the number of naval YARDS making points. 1571 is the number of merchant YARDS making points.
1571 (100) means you have the wrong file.

I did re upload the location files after insuring they are right - and they are right.

IF CVO does NOT show (150) you do NOt have the right file in the SCEN folder.

If you want to see the pool, use the scenario editor for devices 522 and 523 - and these all show upeards of 30,000 points at start.

[okami]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

OK guys - this is indeed confusing.

I had to reverse engineer it: the display does not show the pool at all - ever probably - but not at start for sure.

It DOES show the daily rate (in parentheses)

and it seems to show the total number of servicable yards (not those disabled) where you think it shows points.
1299 is the number of naval YARDS making points. 1571 is the number of merchant YARDS making points.
1571 (100) means you have the wrong file.

I did re upload the location files after insuring they are right - and they are right.

IF CVO does NOT show (150) you do NOt have the right file in the SCEN folder.

If you want to see the pool, use the scenario editor for devices 522 and 523 - and these all show upeards of 30,000 points at start.

Looked in editor and it shows 0's under every catagory accept Type: 14-Factory machine and Upgrade which tells it to upgrade to itself. But there is no number in the field of Pools or Available. If I do not have the right file then it has not been sent to me as I download and placed the CVO wpl070.dat (insurance) file you last sent and it changed nothing.

[el cid again]

OK - I am wrong. The (100) and (200) are meaningless - it is hard code -like some aircraft engine names in reports are.
These are stock scenario 15 values - and we don't know how to change them. The number before the parens is right -
there is no report for pools at all that I see - and these particular values are - who knows? The manual does not seem to say.

I think you are OK -

after game start this field seems to become the total number in the pool. Maybe in stock the pools start with these values??
[Not any more]

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: okami

ORIGINAL: el cid again

OK guys - this is indeed confusing.

I had to reverse engineer it: the display does not show the pool at all - ever probably - but not at start for sure.

It DOES show the daily rate (in parentheses)

and it seems to show the total number of servicable yards (not those disabled) where you think it shows points.
1299 is the number of naval YARDS making points. 1571 is the number of merchant YARDS making points.
1571 (100) means you have the wrong file.

I did re upload the location files after insuring they are right - and they are right.

IF CVO does NOT show (150) you do NOt have the right file in the SCEN folder.

If you want to see the pool, use the scenario editor for devices 522 and 523 - and these all show upeards of 30,000 points at start.

Looked in editor and it shows 0's under every catagory accept Type: 14-Factory machine and Upgrade which tells it to upgrade to itself. But there is no number in the field of Pools or Available. If I do not have the right file then it has not been sent to me as I download and placed the CVO wpl070.dat (insurance) file you last sent and it changed nothing.

I do not know what you have? zeros is not the right thing

since I can see the right thing - I am clueless

it pretty much has to be the files are not in the right folder - if you cannot see the right data in the editor there is no doubt - you have the wrong file in SCEN folder - and I have checked once again - I have uploaded a file with the same data I am looking at - and it is correct

someone else has wrong location files - a HQ not planned right - so I will upload the very files I look at - not copies of them
YOU must somehow get them into the SCEN folder

[okami]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

ORIGINAL: okami

ORIGINAL: el cid again

OK guys - this is indeed confusing.

I had to reverse engineer it: the display does not show the pool at all - ever probably - but not at start for sure.

It DOES show the daily rate (in parentheses)

and it seems to show the total number of servicable yards (not those disabled) where you think it shows points.
1299 is the number of naval YARDS making points. 1571 is the number of merchant YARDS making points.
1571 (100) means you have the wrong file.

I did re upload the location files after insuring they are right - and they are right.

IF CVO does NOT show (150) you do NOt have the right file in the SCEN folder.

If you want to see the pool, use the scenario editor for devices 522 and 523 - and these all show upeards of 30,000 points at start.

Looked in editor and it shows 0's under every catagory accept Type: 14-Factory machine and Upgrade which tells it to upgrade to itself. But there is no number in the field of Pools or Available. If I do not have the right file then it has not been sent to me as I download and placed the CVO wpl070.dat (insurance) file you last sent and it changed nothing.

I do not know what you have? zeros is not the right thing

since I can see the right thing - I am clueless

it pretty much has to be the files are not in the right folder - if you cannot see the right data in the editor there is no doubt - you have the wrong file in SCEN folder - and I have checked once again - I have uploaded a file with the same data I am looking at - and it is correct

someone else has wrong location files - a HQ not planned right - so I will upload the very files I look at - not copies of them
YOU must somehow get them into the SCEN folder

I am at a complete lose. I copied them into the scenario folder and then checked the editor which showed no change. I then start scenario 070 and looked at the Industry/Troop/Resource screen and it show no change. i then deleted wpl070.dat and resaved it to the scenario folder. Checked everything again and still no change. Frustrating.

[Mistmatz]

Same problem here, put the latest locations into scen folder, still the database editor shows 0 in the pool and a build rate of 0.

After one turn without changing any orders the numbers are:
Naval shipyard: 1304 (338)
Merchant shipyard: 1578 (1)
Shipyard Repair: 1434

[el cid again]

turns out the HQ thing was NOT a bad location file -

but hard code! hard code wants certain slots doing certain things - and it changes the file settings - ugly


So the apparent indicator the wrong files were uploaded was itself bogus. Since I have tested every possible way - I am sure we have the right files uploaded.

[Mistmatz]

Problem still present even with the files from your scen folder el cid.

Can you please tell us in detail where you see the expected numbers? I tried the "WIP Database Editor 6.0.exe" and "WIP Database Editor 1.0.exe", both in the SCEN subfolder of my RHS installation and the build rate and pool for device slots 522...524 are 0. As the numbers I see in the game differ I guess there might be the right thing going on, but I cannot see it in the editor. Do you use a different tool to check the data?

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: okami

ORIGINAL: el cid again

ORIGINAL: okami



Looked in editor and it shows 0's under every catagory accept Type: 14-Factory machine and Upgrade which tells it to upgrade to itself. But there is no number in the field of Pools or Available. If I do not have the right file then it has not been sent to me as I download and placed the CVO wpl070.dat (insurance) file you last sent and it changed nothing.

I do not know what you have? zeros is not the right thing

since I can see the right thing - I am clueless

it pretty much has to be the files are not in the right folder - if you cannot see the right data in the editor there is no doubt - you have the wrong file in SCEN folder - and I have checked once again - I have uploaded a file with the same data I am looking at - and it is correct

someone else has wrong location files - a HQ not planned right - so I will upload the very files I look at - not copies of them
YOU must somehow get them into the SCEN folder

I am at a complete lose. I copied them into the scenario folder and then checked the editor which showed no change. I then start scenario 070 and looked at the Industry/Troop/Resource screen and it show no change. i then deleted wpl070.dat and resaved it to the scenario folder. Checked everything again and still no change. Frustrating.

One problem with your procedure: you must NOT look at the Industry/Troop/Resource screen to figure out if you have the right file.
You need to look with the editor. The initial screen has some default values in the reports - it is similar to aircraft engines. If I name them what I want some reports ignore my names - which is why RHS uses names like "Missubishi (Ha-1)" instead of just "Ha-1" like I intend.
Becasuse hard code makes some reports say only "Mitsubishi" - sorry. IF he EDITOR shows the right values - you have the right file.
The initial report screen is going to partially ignore the files and do its own thing - the same as Scenario 15 stock is what it shows at certain points - others do use the file data. Confusing - but here the values in parens are NEVER true in the initial report. LATER they seem to show the pool total.

It isn't even that - 100 and 200 are not the initial values in scenario 15 either - but it loads displaying them that way. It is a legasy to something and I am not sure to what? Don't pay any attention to them when you first load the game. The values in front of them will indicate you have the right file.

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Mistmatz

Problem still present even with the files from your scen folder el cid.

Can you please tell us in detail where you see the expected numbers? I tried the "WIP Database Editor 6.0.exe" and "WIP Database Editor 1.0.exe", both in the SCEN subfolder of my RHS installation and the build rate and pool for device slots 522...524 are 0. As the numbers I see in the game differ I guess there might be the right thing going on, but I cannot see it in the editor. Do you use a different tool to check the data?

I use Matrix editors 1.0 and 6.0 (1.0 is faster) - WITP Editor X - and WITPExcel. All agree and show correct values - which are never zero. You must be looking at the wrong fields.

CVO device 523 build rate = 150 - pool = 21643

device 522 build rate = 100, pool = 28320

[okami]

ORIGINAL: Mistmatz

Same problem here, put the latest locations into scen folder, still the database editor shows 0 in the pool and a build rate of 0.

After one turn without changing any orders the numbers are:
Naval shipyard: 1304 (338)
Merchant shipyard: 1578 (1)
Shipyard Repair: 1434

This is still true after finding that I have the correct values in the pool entries for 522 and 523. These extra shipbuilding points are not showing up in the game. Is it that the game will just not let us see these points but will draw on them anyway?

[el cid again]

I don't know how you are playing.

Have you left all ships turned on?

Have you accelerated ships?

Do you turn off other things in shipbuilding hexes which eat HI points? [You need to turn off numbers of armaments plants, aircraft plants, tank factories, and probably also shipyards - to get what you really want - you cannot do everything all out - or the game will simply not build many things]

IF you turn off numbers of ships, accelerate few or none, then you should see pools each day.

Over time - as you build up yard capacity - and as expensive ships are completed (e.g. shinano)

you will have more optoins.

I am not yet certain we have the numbers right - but they are better.

I paid you for all ships built somewhere else in points - or with Thai shipbuilding capacity

I reduced the cost of tankers by 25% - the most I can withotu a monsterous amount of work

I did a number of technical things - converting the CV training units into things you don't pay for -
giving you Yamato so you only pay repair points - stuff like that

To evaluate what your situation is, you need to track how many ships come off the ways - how many are advancing - and ideally total the costs to figure out how many points are made. It appears that in 1941 Japan producess at ALL shipyards - not like planes.

We have problems if we need vastly more (or fewer) points - and the system (never integrted properly) may not work too well - but it does appear to work better than I would expect for such a simplistic thing (a common WITP observation).

There is one other context: IF you build too many aircraft, engines, tanks, or other things - it will reduce shipbuilding points. I never want to make it so you can build 100,000 planes (like the US did) and more ships than history - and a giant tank force - so I move incrmentally in these matters.

[el cid again]

Testing this is hard - it requires hundreds of settings - but I am testing.

[okami]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

I don't know how you are playing.

Have you left all ships turned on?

Have you accelerated ships?

Do you turn off other things in shipbuilding hexes which eat HI points? [You need to turn off numbers of armaments plants, aircraft plants, tank factories, and probably also shipyards - to get what you really want - you cannot do everything all out - or the game will simply not build many things]

IF you turn off numbers of ships, accelerate few or none, then you should see pools each day.

Over time - as you build up yard capacity - and as expensive ships are completed (e.g. shinano)

you will have more optoins.

I am not yet certain we have the numbers right - but they are better.

I paid you for all ships built somewhere else in points - or with Thai shipbuilding capacity

I reduced the cost of tankers by 25% - the most I can withotu a monsterous amount of work

I did a number of technical things - converting the CV training units into things you don't pay for -
giving you Yamato so you only pay repair points - stuff like that

To evaluate what your situation is, you need to track how many ships come off the ways - how many are advancing - and ideally total the costs to figure out how many points are made. It appears that in 1941 Japan producess at ALL shipyards - not like planes.

We have problems if we need vastly more (or fewer) points - and the system (never integrted properly) may not work too well - but it does appear to work better than I would expect for such a simplistic thing (a common WITP observation).

There is one other context: IF you build too many aircraft, engines, tanks, or other things - it will reduce shipbuilding points. I never want to make it so you can build 100,000 planes (like the US did) and more ships than history - and a giant tank force - so I move incrmentally in these matters.

What I am asking is why, if the Naval pool starts with 28000 points before the Dec7th turn, that at the start of the Dec8th turn there are only 334 points in the pool if I made no changes at all? I am not asking if you got the numbers right, I realize that will take playtesting. Which I will do for you in my game with Mistmatz. What I want to know is why 28000 Naval and 21000 Merchant points are not registring on Dec8th. They could not all have been spent in one day.

[el cid again]

Oh yes they could be.

Aside from increasing costs for auxiliaries and tankers,

we added thousands of landing craft and junks and barges and things of that sort - each with one durability point -
and dozens of sea trucks and river craft.

On the other hand, we removed half the AKs.

We added many ships which were not built - but which were planned - expecting (and requiring) you to turn them off - except you must do that on turn 2 in PBEM games (it is not an option on turn 1). You cannot build all those fancy AA destroyers, torpedo destroyers, numbers of cruisers - numbers of carriers - and not run out of steel, labor, name it. You simply MUST turn off things and prioritize.

Yet another factor is what produces in a hex. Too many things sucking will mean that some things never produce at all. You may not be getting four figures of new warship points and merchant points if you have not learned how to turn off things which will prevent them from being made.

It is not yet possible to know if we have the right values - but we cannot find out in a test where players do not attempt to be reaonable.
The economy is not well organized - some places seem NEVER to produce an aircraft engine for example - while others make lots of them - and just why is not clear to us? This may be true of ship points too. It DOES appear that ships are "pair for" in class slot order - so if there are too few points - the higher slot ships won't advance a day. It DOES appear "accelerated" ships get first call - at the expense of normal ships.
If you have too much building relative to new points - your pools should and will go to zero.

But each day you get 100 new warship points plus 150 new merchant points - if you never produce any at all from the economy (compensation for foreign built ships). So it is impossible you get zero points to work with - even if you turn off all shipyard production - or defeat it - by any means.

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

Oh yes they could be.

Aside from increasing costs for auxiliaries and tankers,

we added thousands of landing craft and junks and barges and things of that sort - each with one durability point -
and dozens of sea trucks and river craft.

On the other hand, we removed half the AKs. We added shipyards - to the point it alarmed our most famous modder -
and we just did that again big time. The cumulative imacts we do not fully understand at this time.

We added many ships which were not built - but which were planned - expecting (and requiring) you to turn them off (you pick which is turned off, not necessairily the same mix) - except you must do that on turn 2 in PBEM games (it is not an option on turn 1). You cannot build all those fancy AA destroyers, torpedo destroyers, numbers of cruisers - numbers of carriers - and not run out of steel, labor, name it. You simply MUST turn off things and prioritize.

Yet another factor is what produces in a hex. Too many things sucking will mean that some things never produce at all. You may not be getting four figures of new warship points and merchant points if you have not learned how to turn off things which will prevent them from being made.

It is not yet possible to know if we have the right values - but we cannot find out in a test where players do not attempt to be reaonable.
The economy is not well organized - some places seem NEVER to produce an aircraft engine for example - while others make lots of them - and just why is not clear to us? This may be true of ship points too. It DOES appear that ships are "pair for" in class slot order - so if there are too few points - the higher slot ships won't advance a day. It DOES appear "accelerated" ships get first call - at the expense of normal ships.
If you have too much building relative to new points - your pools should and will go to zero.

But each day you get 100 new warship points plus 150 new merchant points - if you never produce any at all from the economy (compensation for foreign built ships). So it is impossible you get zero points to work with - even if you turn off all shipyard production - or defeat it - by any means.

[okami]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

Oh yes they could be.

Aside from increasing costs for auxiliaries and tankers,

we added thousands of landing craft and junks and barges and things of that sort - each with one durability point -
and dozens of sea trucks and river craft.

On the other hand, we removed half the AKs.

We added many ships which were not built - but which were planned - expecting (and requiring) you to turn them off - except you must do that on turn 2 in PBEM games (it is not an option on turn 1). You cannot build all those fancy AA destroyers, torpedo destroyers, numbers of cruisers - numbers of carriers - and not run out of steel, labor, name it. You simply MUST turn off things and prioritize.

Yet another factor is what produces in a hex. Too many things sucking will mean that some things never produce at all. You may not be getting four figures of new warship points and merchant points if you have not learned how to turn off things which will prevent them from being made.

It is not yet possible to know if we have the right values - but we cannot find out in a test where players do not attempt to be reaonable.
The economy is not well organized - some places seem NEVER to produce an aircraft engine for example - while others make lots of them - and just why is not clear to us? This may be true of ship points too. It DOES appear that ships are "pair for" in class slot order - so if there are too few points - the higher slot ships won't advance a day. It DOES appear "accelerated" ships get first call - at the expense of normal ships.
If you have too much building relative to new points - your pools should and will go to zero.

But each day you get 100 new warship points plus 150 new merchant points - if you never produce any at all from the economy (compensation for foreign built ships). So it is impossible you get zero points to work with - even if you turn off all shipyard production - or defeat it - by any means.

If I am understanding you correctly, all of the pool points can be spent on the first day of the war. In a pbem game you can not turn off anything as production is greyed out for the first day. I will now start my game with Mistmatz and I will post obervations so that you can see how things are going. Thank you for the help you have given and continue to give. I'm ging on a "bug hunt" I'll find them you kill them.

[okami]

ORIGINAL: okami

ORIGINAL: el cid again

Oh yes they could be.

Aside from increasing costs for auxiliaries and tankers,

we added thousands of landing craft and junks and barges and things of that sort - each with one durability point -
and dozens of sea trucks and river craft.

On the other hand, we removed half the AKs.

We added many ships which were not built - but which were planned - expecting (and requiring) you to turn them off - except you must do that on turn 2 in PBEM games (it is not an option on turn 1). You cannot build all those fancy AA destroyers, torpedo destroyers, numbers of cruisers - numbers of carriers - and not run out of steel, labor, name it. You simply MUST turn off things and prioritize.

Yet another factor is what produces in a hex. Too many things sucking will mean that some things never produce at all. You may not be getting four figures of new warship points and merchant points if you have not learned how to turn off things which will prevent them from being made.

It is not yet possible to know if we have the right values - but we cannot find out in a test where players do not attempt to be reaonable.
The economy is not well organized - some places seem NEVER to produce an aircraft engine for example - while others make lots of them - and just why is not clear to us? This may be true of ship points too. It DOES appear that ships are "pair for" in class slot order - so if there are too few points - the higher slot ships won't advance a day. It DOES appear "accelerated" ships get first call - at the expense of normal ships.
If you have too much building relative to new points - your pools should and will go to zero.

But each day you get 100 new warship points plus 150 new merchant points - if you never produce any at all from the economy (compensation for foreign built ships). So it is impossible you get zero points to work with - even if you turn off all shipyard production - or defeat it - by any means.

If I am understanding you correctly, all of the pool points can be spent on the first day of the war. In a pbem game you can not turn off anything as production is greyed out for the first day. I will now start my game with Mistmatz and I will post obervations so that you can see how things are going. Thank you for the help you have given and continue to give. I'm going on a "bug hunt" I'll find them you kill them.

[1EyedJacks]

ORIGINAL: okami

ORIGINAL: okami

ORIGINAL: el cid again

Oh yes they could be.

Aside from increasing costs for auxiliaries and tankers,

we added thousands of landing craft and junks and barges and things of that sort - each with one durability point -
and dozens of sea trucks and river craft.

On the other hand, we removed half the AKs.

We added many ships which were not built - but which were planned - expecting (and requiring) you to turn them off - except you must do that on turn 2 in PBEM games (it is not an option on turn 1). You cannot build all those fancy AA destroyers, torpedo destroyers, numbers of cruisers - numbers of carriers - and not run out of steel, labor, name it. You simply MUST turn off things and prioritize.

Yet another factor is what produces in a hex. Too many things sucking will mean that some things never produce at all. You may not be getting four figures of new warship points and merchant points if you have not learned how to turn off things which will prevent them from being made.

It is not yet possible to know if we have the right values - but we cannot find out in a test where players do not attempt to be reaonable.
The economy is not well organized - some places seem NEVER to produce an aircraft engine for example - while others make lots of them - and just why is not clear to us? This may be true of ship points too. It DOES appear that ships are "pair for" in class slot order - so if there are too few points - the higher slot ships won't advance a day. It DOES appear "accelerated" ships get first call - at the expense of normal ships.
If you have too much building relative to new points - your pools should and will go to zero.

But each day you get 100 new warship points plus 150 new merchant points - if you never produce any at all from the economy (compensation for foreign built ships). So it is impossible you get zero points to work with - even if you turn off all shipyard production - or defeat it - by any means.

If I am understanding you correctly, all of the pool points can be spent on the first day of the war. In a pbem game you can not turn off anything as production is greyed out for the first day. I will now start my game with Mistmatz and I will post obervations so that you can see how things are going. Thank you for the help you have given and continue to give. I'm going on a "bug hunt" I'll find them you kill them.

I was about to dive in to the new update when I saw these posts... It looks like there is a strong possability that there will be another update regarding ship production?