Advice

[wernerpruckner]

can you tell the time of your game ??

usually I make 25 to 30 terror points till end of 43.
usually I fly BC only 1 in every three turns, and always as maximum effort.

all A/C in a single raid are the same type of A/C.

use ECM A/C to simulate raids - put them 5min apart ( 6/3/3 ) with some NIs in stream - such a raid is a magnet for the AI.
the same for a MossieB raid far inland ( Berlin, Frankfurt, Muinch ) - here I use usually single squadron raids, because they scatter ( and look like many groups for the German in the first few months )

use all raids with a pathfinder lead squadron

a typical turn may look like this:

19:30 start ECM raid - long path over the North Sea and around Hamburg
20:30 start MossieB raid to Berlin
20:45 start MossieB raid to Frankfurt
21:00 start MossieB raid to Berlin
21:30 Halifax raid in two streams ( same path, same time... all Halifaxes used ) to RMAL Berlin POWER ( or one of the other big Berlin targets in the city circle ), use also some NIs around this raid
21:45 start ECM raid ( moving around the Rhur valley, or similar targets)
22:00 Wellington raid ( with a pahfinder leader - maybe Lancaster unit ) to a low importance RR target
22:15 Sterling raid...usually coastal target ( PORT or RR often close to a UFAC )
22:30 ECM raid 3
22:45 Lancaster raid ( 2 or 3 streams ) to a high value RR target ( 6 or better )

all those are mixed with NIs in stream and NIs patrolling A/Fs ( I use often a houserule for NIs, because they are far to dangerous in the NI role near A/Fs......like only 2 or 3 squadron are allowed for this duty )

I also use the Lancaster III units in the first few weeks/months as single squad harrassing raids against the low importance targets along the Rhine ( they damage the area up to 50% and often enough whack the RR )

[kaybayray]

Hey Swift, Hard Sarge [8D]

Thanks for the insight.... "I Can SEE" Said the Blind Man...[8D]

Looks like I was doing just about everything wrong that could be done wrong. [:D]

I was focusing on targets in France, Holland and Belgium for BC. I was sending Night Fighters to Orbit points in groups of 3 or 6. I thought the Wellington RCM aircraft would do radio jamming but guess not yet. I am still in the first few weeks of the game long 1943 campaign, somewhere in September.

I have a few questions for you about some of the info you gave me.

1) How do I get groups of only 2 night fighters in a mission? seems it is either half of what ever I have remaining in the squadron or only 1 aircraft. I dont see a way to select a particular number of aircraft other than that.

2) When you say launch my BC bombing raids in "Streams" do you mean that I actually stagger the launch time of each squadron involved in the raid on a particular target? At the moment I am launching 2-3 squadrons combined (including the Pathfinder squadron) at a target under only one mission.

3) Do my Mossy Night Fighters have the range to work areas around Berlin at this time? That seems like extreme range to me.

4) Should I be assigning only 1 Night Fighter to an enemy airfield? I figured that my chanches of success would be higher if I assigned several to each known LW night fighter air base.

5) As for assigning night fighters to LW airfields, when should I have them there relative to the BC bombing raids? Should I get them there before or after.

6) For placing night fighters in the bomber groups you said if I plot them 1 aircraft at a time they will go to the Primary point and orbit but if more then 1 they will just tag it and RTB... correct?

Thanks for your advice, I will see if I can get some missions run this weekend and see how I fare. Then maybe I can get back to you guys with some after action reports and hopefully you will be able to once again assist me in improving my game. [8D]

Thanks Much [8D]

Later,
KayBay

Oh... and I will be picking up Forge of Freedom I think for my Birthday in October. So I will probably be seeking some advice there as well... [&o]

[wernerpruckner]

1
NI:
you can use them single
or always the half af available a/c
12 => 6,3,3
8=> 4,2,2
10 => 5,3,2

2
BC flies staggered, so you do not have to plot each squad
my usual strike force per stream is pathfinders with 4 to 6 additional squads

3
some

4
one at a time
with the time you see/learn how long they stay there

5
learning by doing [:'(]
a hour after your stream crosses the coasts until a few hours after the last bomber TOT ( depends on how far away the target was )

6
I put streams of NIs along the same flypath
and only single NIs above or near A/Fs

[TechSgt]

ORIGINAL: kaybayray

Hey Guys !! [8D]

...

I need more aircraft with longer operating range and I need them Now because I am afraid that I wont have an Air Force in another 30 days without them. [8D]

So for a few days it looks like it is going to be recon only until my forces regain morale. I can continue with fighter sweeps but that is proving as costly as the strat runs with respect to fighters lost. Not sure how long I can trade AC for AC with the LW and come out on top. I need these target restrictions to go away so I can actually hurt their industry. I flew past a lot of great targets to hit that UFAC and at tremendous losses IMO. Not sure how much longer I can hold up without a large increase in fighters to allow me to use more of my strategic bombers.

Oh Well, I will ponder it.

Later,
KayBay

KBRay;

There is something about this "game", eh? [:D]

It really give you a feeling for what the RL commanders decisions and worries were all about.

TSgt

[kaybayray]

Hey TechSgt [8D]

Yes, very true statement. IMO that is one of the major attractions to this game. Since these posts I have done a lot of historical research to educate myself, have read over many other posts here and moved forward much farther in the campaign I am running.

I have overcome a lot of the difficulties I was having, due to some helpful insight from Sarge and the others posting here as well as my own research. I found that in many instances I was unaware of how to perform some of the mechanics in the game to build the missions that would perform to my strategy. I am doing much better now but the target constraints are still a major roadblock as well as maintaining my forces. I can see how those that were in command in the very early stages of the Air campaign really had a no win situation.

I must say that for myself I would prefer to have the ability to determine what the overall strategy to be applied to defeat the Luftwaffe should be. That alone represents a major challenge IMO. The added target constraints severely increase that challenge. But for now I am just trying to learn how to play the game.

Later,
KayBay

[TechSgt]

ORIGINAL: kaybayray

Hey TechSgt [8D]

...

I found that in many instances I was unaware of how to perform some of the mechanics in the game to build the missions that would perform to my strategy ...

But for now I am just trying to learn how to play the game.

Later,
KayBay

Hopefully, you found where the rules book was posted on this forum.

TSgt

[kaybayray]

TechSgt,
Yeah I found it a couple days ago and downloaded it. Have not had a change to open it up and go through it yet. Kind of busy getting ready for Santa's visit and the New Year. I am planning to take several days off over the Christmas holidays and hopefully I can make some use of that Manual. [8D]

As if just playing this game is not enough of a challenge, try it with no documentation or manual. Just a CD and a curious nature. [:D]

One thing I need to do that I am thinking will help me a lot is to move a lot of my forces around. I want to get my fighter units up close to the channel and move my bombers back inland some. Never seem to have any fighters to escort even the shortest missions. At the moment hitting anything on the Eastern half of Belgium, Holland or France is out of the question unless I want to really put Douhet's theory to test. [8D]

I dont think that would be pretty.

So for now I have been working on proper use of Bomber Command, dealing with Target constraints and lack of escort groups. Still need to learn which AC I can use for what kind of ground attack missions. I mean I know the Historical AC but I am not sure how to go about configuring them for any particular mission. For example what kind of options do I have for ord or ammo loads for Fighter groups hitting particular types of targets. What kind of fighters can I put on missions hitting a Railroad target, a Power target, a Fuel/Oil target, etc... I know I can use them on Airfield attacks but not any real specifics for other targets with respect to how this game is built.

I have tried a few things but with mixed results, and I am not sure why I obtained certain results. Yes I do understand the tactical and strategic use of the different types of AC but I dont know which types are best suited for some of these missions. I would really like to just shut my Air Force down for like a month and completely rebuild many units into a completely different AC. Frankly some of the early models like P-40's, Spit V's for example are lawn furniture. Another AC I am wondering about is name the Mustang I in the game, is that the A36 Apache or is that a precursor to the P51's? Not sure what AC I should be changing into what AC if you understand.

So I think I will just make some huge changes and see if that gets me where I want to go. I can always start another campaign if it is that big a disaster. [8D]

Well, got to get back to it.

Later,
KayBay

[TechSgt]

KBRay;

I can't imagine trying this for the first time without the manual! [X(]

Moving units...
You have to move the short legged a/c to the front. Just remember, it is a 700 turn game, so be patient. The game will allow you to move 200 a/c per turn, and an American FG costs 72 points. You can move more, but it will penalize you! This is something to do on bad weather days, nothing will be flying anyways. [:)]

After the invasion of Italy, you will get to practice moving units. When you breakout of Normandy, you will be "flying" across France, and cussing that 200 point limit.

Douhet's Theory...
It's not pretty. In fact it's pretty ugly!

Bombing missions...
For the Allies, bombloads are set. You can see the bombload when you add bombers to a mission. The same with fighter missions. The only variable to the bombload is the distance traveled -- not from the start base, but from the Group/Sqdn home base -- it will reduce bomb loads. From what I've seen on the screen shots, this is different in BtR.

Having played a couple of campaigns, there are things about which a/c, etc that you will learn. I personally enjoyed this experimentation stage during that very first campaign, but I at least had a manual to help out. If you want more info, just ask.

The Mustang I is the Allison engined version that was shipped to the Brits early in the war.

Check the plane database tab, it will let you compare a/c. Just remember to check a Grp/Sqdn experience level, too. Put the best a/c with your best pilots! I point this out, because the game will "upgrade" units throughout the campaign. I have yet to figure out what those looneys in administration, (G1), are doing when they choose who-flys-what! When you change a unit's a/c it will stay changed. I think this was upgraded in version 1.01.
Remember to get the 12th AF switched to American planes before 1 Nov 43.

Hope this helps!
TSgt

[wernerpruckner]

ORIGINAL: TechSgt


Moving units...
You have to move the short legged a/c to the front. Just remember, it is a 700 turn game, so be patient. The game will allow you to move 200 a/c per turn, and an American FG costs 72 points. You can move more, but it will penalize you! This is something to do on bad weather days, nothing will be flying anyways. [:)]

500 with 1.05x6

[Hard Sarge]

The Mustang I is the Allison engined version that was shipped to the Brits early in the war.

correct, it was a decent plane, but was not suited for High Alt fighting, so was not what the RAF wanted, but was too good to let sit idle, so was basicly turned over for Army support and tac recon

so overall, it is a good plane down low, bad plane med to high, the I has 4 303 and 2 50 Cal while the IA has 4 20mm

which in BTR it is even worst (it is bad down low and bad at any alt)

(one of the stories I liked about the Stang, some Spit jockies seen one down low over England and dropped down on it to play, as they had never seen one, but had heard about them, being pilots they got into a race, with a Spit on either side of the Stang, and the one pilot was thinking, hell, the Stang isn't as fast as they say, we are keeping up with it with no trouble, then he looked over and seen the Stang had it's flaps down (combat flap setting) the Stang pilot waved to him raised his flaps, and left them in the dust)

[kaybayray]

I have the patch that is linked to this forum that brings me to 1.05X6 I believe so I have the 500 pts for movement. I need to just go through that manual. Although I must point out that Sarge, swift and many others have been a tremendous help explaining things and giving advice. [8D]

One thing I found confusing is that I took a couple squadrons and changed the AC type. These squadrons had IIRC 39 AC in them. When they rebuilt they only came back as 16 AC in each. Why not 39? What happened to all the other pilots?

I would prefer to replace ALL my fighter AC with P-47 and P-38 until the P-51 series come out. The higher end Spits are great dog fighters but I need Long Range Escort and hard as nails Ground Attack AC. After I lost some serious numbers in squadrons due to AC changes I hesitate to change any more.

Later,
KayBay

[wernerpruckner]

ORIGINAL: kaybayray


One thing I found confusing is that I took a couple squadrons and changed the AC type. These squadrons had IIRC 39 AC in them. When they rebuilt they only came back as 16 AC in each. Why not 39? What happened to all the other pilots?

some squadrons come into the game with some additional strength (in pilots and planes), but as soon as your arechanging the A/C you will only get enough planes to fill up the squadron requirement. You will still have the additional pilots, but you wont get the A/Cs for them [:'(]

[Hard Sarge]

can you give me the Unit numbers ?, the way you say it is confusing me

if they were squadrons, 39 is too many aircraft, unless they were just overstrength, and then they wouldn't of flown with 39, just had 39 in stock

and a US squadron should be 27 planes, 16 ready, 9 in reserve, CW Squadrons would be 24 ready and 3 in reserve

US BG would be 48, 32 ready, 16 reserve
US FG would be 72, 48 ready and 24 reserve

so if the unit only has 16 aircraft, it is either not filled out with planes yet, or something is screwy

(not counting NF types)

now you can screw up those two A-36 units, if you change planes you will force them to be bomb groups, if you let the AI change them, they will become fighter groups, but again, those are groups and should have a lot more planes

give me more info or a screen shot, so I can figured out what is going on

[wernerpruckner]

ORIGINAL: kaybayray

I would prefer to replace ALL my fighter AC with P-47 and P-38 until the P-51 series come out. The higher end Spits are great dog fighters but I need Long Range Escort and hard as nails Ground Attack AC. After I lost some serious numbers in squadrons due to AC changes I hesitate to change any more.

only your strategic daylight forces need long range escorts in 43 ( and they really need them...).
maybe also the 12th AF because some nice targets are far up in northern Italy - but usually Italy is not well defended by interceptors, and so the older variant of the Lightning is often enough.

ground attack A/C???
do you mean Thunderbolts, or some fighter bombers or light/medium bombers???

[TechSgt]

ORIGINAL: swift

ORIGINAL: TechSgt


Moving units...
You have to move the short legged a/c to the front. Just remember, it is a 700 turn game, so be patient. The game will allow you to move 200 a/c per turn, and an American FG costs 72 points. You can move more, but it will penalize you! This is something to do on bad weather days, nothing will be flying anyways. [:)]

500 with 1.05x6

That's right! I forgot -- must be low O2 flow! [:D]

I didn't upgrade past 1.04. I'm currently on Apr '44 and don't feel like a restart.

[kaybayray]

Bumping this because I am running my campaign again. Hope this is OK Sarge, Swift ?

I have been really focusing on BC recently and have developed some strats that really reduce my losses. However I am still not moving the Terror score like I would like to. I recently obtained an old manual from a link provided in here somewhere and have been reading up and trying to catch up to to you guys.

I am hitting several cities each night that I run BC and doing 25-50% Urban Damage. Typical Night raids hit 4-5 Urban areas. but after 4 major efforts like this I still do not see any change in Terror score. So I have done 25-50% Urban damage to 16+ Urban "Area" targets.

Yes all of the cities I am striking are in Germany proper and not Luxemburg, Belgium or other countries.

Assuming I just have not pushed the threshold to move the score yet I will continue. I have been focusing on cities where no damage exists prior to my attacks. Does that make a difference? I was hitting places where damage had already been done before and that didnt seem to move the score so I changed my approach.

Later,
KayBay

[Hard Sarge]

No Hassle

you say, not getting anything, are you looking at the Terror score, or just the Te score ?

IE, Te score of 5, terror score will be 52,000 or so

it takes a lot of points for Terror to go up, 10,000 of them, so case above, it would take 60,000 to get to the next point of Te

targets, you get damaged and burned out areas, repeat raids that hit burned out spots, do not gain you much

more of the points come from the size of the target, then how much the target was damaged before, so a very large urban area can gain you more points, then a small one, that gets totally plastered

with in reason, 3000-4000 points in a night was a decent raid/night, so really, I only "plan" on say 1 maybe two points a week, during good bombing weather

(and you are not going to be able to keep that up)

[wernerpruckner]

a few tips for BC:

Pathfinders should always lead the streams
all A/C in a stream should be one kind of A/C ( works best for me) [exception - the pathfinder can be a differnet A/C, but should not be slower than the stream :p )

Attacking undamaged cities gives most points for a fast score

Attack industries in the citycircle for additional effect ( choose your path for optimized urban damage)[there are a few huge nice targets - try RMAL power ]

Attack ports (also circles9 for spreading fires into urban areas

try not to fly above too many AA fortresses!

choose your waypoints to distract the enemy

Attack larger areas from different directions

You may also choose streams without pathfinders, and let the pathfinders fly a different way ( but they should bomb before the main force arrives)

TRy to limit the size of the single stream ( 1 PF+ 4 to 6 squads work fine for me)

Elite units are good for destroying pinpoint targets at low altitude

Do not give the enemy too much rest, but also try to keep your fatigue low - NI need the most rest ( after each sortie at least one day rest), bomber crews in BC can go a long way with limited rests - but try to keep high operational numbers

P/Fs work best with high morale zero fatigue and high exp.....the stream can go with low morale as long as no fighters will attack them too hard

ECM either in stream or as distraction

RCM as RCM

NI either in stream or close to A/Fs

[Hard Sarge]

new game, NI and NF work better then before, but still, Allied NF's work best when flying close to enemy bases, they will and can get into fights, but will also jump on anything trying to land

as Swift says, you can plot 1000 bomber raids, just don't make it one raid, plot 3-5 of them to hit the same target, from different angles

also, don't try to plot raids close to each other, the bombers tend to see the fires of one raid, and then make that there aimming point

[kaybayray]

Well if I could figure out how to embed an image in a replay I could show you some of the strats I've been developing. I have a couple screen captures that I have added some text to and saved as a .jpg file.

Later,
KayBay