Important changes

[doomtrader]

But HoI and BG are turn based games

Every hour is a small turn and every day is a large turn*.



*There are also some things which are recalculated every moth and every annexation.

[JMass]

So I was not able to find the "end turn" button?
[:D]

I play wargames from the end of '70, turn based games forever!
[8D]

[Lucky1]

Although there is nothing wrong in making the game more 'historic', I think we should keep in mind that it is a game. As such, gameplay should be the first priority. In other words, I think the first order of the day is to work on cleaning up AI. The rest, frankly, is less important. I won't play the game no matter how historically accurate the map is if the AI does not work.
 
Simple.
 

[GJK]

ORIGINAL: Lucky1

Although there is nothing wrong in making the game more 'historic', I think we should keep in mind that it is a game. As such, gameplay should be the first priority. In other words, I think the first order of the day is to work on cleaning up AI. The rest, frankly, is less important. I won't play the game no matter how historically accurate the map is if the AI does not work.

Simple.

So are we to assume that you will only play with yourself then?

Sorry, couldn't resist. [:D]

[Lucky1]

I am an equal opportunity player. My wife says I play too much. She insists that I should only play with her. But, she does not like to play that often. Since we had kids, we hardly play at all. So it looks like it is just me and my right.... whoa. Were you talking about AI?
 

[wargamer123]

HOI is slightly turn based..as the RTS factor and the general rules can allow for sleeping on the job.
Though HOI isn't a hexagon strategy game, the territory system and the game engine make it a big different.
I get the feeling with HOI that I'm playing most paradox titles. SC1/CEAW/This by the looks of it appear more like moving little tanks, corps, airplanes, ships around to do things. Bit Godlike, and a board game quality.

So many options, so many things coming out, SC is releasing Pacific Theatre. Hoi is releaing version 3 next year. You guys showed a new WW2 game in production. All this stuff, and World in Flames is even scheduled due some time, maybe...

P.S. I've been looking at this and war between the states for a some beer and pretzels. I'm a little worried GG's game will be a little too defensive for 1 side and too offensive for the other. Though that is history. Hard to pick.....Not sure if this game would be more Hardcore, kill KILL KILL, and new options that some other HexWW2s dont have

[KuniworthII]

HoI is a good game but I can't stand the RTS, fingerspeed is more important than strategy.

[Severian]

"adjustable game speed, active pause" - and problems are solved

[wargamer123]

Kuniworth, HOI2 is very little to do with fingerclicking. Depending on the game speed and the amount of detail, it's so immense that even a few mistakes won't influence the game. You see the marching, you see the planes moving.. Whether or not the province system is accurate is another story, but I believe that the System for it's day was New Age.

Problem is the immensity of HOI's engine requires so much patience, and you need such dedication to finish a game. It's about 100 Xs more complicated than an average strategic command. Perhaps even more and that can deflect from some of the fun. Simplicity is not a staple of a game like that. and why I think WIF may be just too hard to grasp for the average gamer as well

[Phatguy]

ORIGINAL: Kuniworth II

As I said I keep on posting and hopefully devs pick it up for next patch. Just talking basics here.

Finland should not be pro-axis, but turn pro-axis after a much needed winter war event in which the Soviet Union should capture Vyborg and Karelia. It should enter war automatically if Germany declares war on Soviet Union(not if Soviets declare war on Germany, has to do with winning back territory). Otherwise Finland will stay neutral and not be persuaded to go to war with Germany, only if barbarossa is commencing.

Yugoslavia should start pro-axis but be couped into pro-allied camp(not enter war) in 1941. With high percentage this would most certainly mean a german player would probably invade(as what really happen) instead of risking a threat in the flank with barbarossa coming up.

I'm not sure if I like the fact that if I play the soviets I have to have a "winter War" event foisted on me just to be historically correct. I play this game for fun and to possibly change the outcome. If I dont want to thump the Finns I really dont think I should have to.
About Yugoslavia. Are you suggesting having a trigger to switch the pro from Axis to Allied automatically in 1941?

[KuniworthII]

Exactly: YOu should not have to do it if you dont like.
 
As it stands now you dont even have the choice. You think that is more "fun"?

[JMass]

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker
If I dont want to thump the Finns I really dont think I should have to.

But if you want to attack Finland the outcome should be reasonably historic (I don't want to say Soviets must lost automatically but that events could occur). I read some HoI's AAR where minor countries conquer the world, this is sci-fi, not a wargame.

About Yugoslavia. Are you suggesting having a trigger to switch the pro from Axis to Allied automatically in 1941?

I am working on this event for my mod and I found a way to go around this problem, not automatically but players must decide what to do.

[wargamer123]

JMass, correct in HOI you can conquor a portion of the world as Italy maybe, but incorrect also.... You'd have to reload a dozen times with the AI on it's worst setting to not get annexed too easily. but if this game started in 1936 and ended in 1950, I bet you I could also. You also have to give those HOI Scripts something, they easily change them or give alternate options. i.e. Attack Finland in the Winter war with these Pros/Cons Don't Attack with these Pros/Cons...



Ultimately having the choice is neat but in my opinion the whole Fin thing is too small potatoes to worry about anyway. Now in a bigger game, maybe... I suppose that this is ETO, the option or event popup with an option would be candy

[Phatguy]

ORIGINAL: Kuniworth II

Exactly: YOu should not have to do it if you dont like.

As it stands now you dont even have the choice. You think that is more "fun"?

Not sure if you were replying to me with this but I think so. "Fun" is relative.Right now, except for the non-stop troop production and the instant placing of units this game is fun..for me.

But, from the sound of it you want to have triggers for historical events like the winter war. An "winter war" trigger would force me,as the Soviet player to get attacked from the north by the Finns even if I had no designs on their territory. I really dont want to be strait-jacketed into playing by the book.

I'll tell you, my present game is a riot for me. Got attacked by the Germans in 41. Managed to hold them somewhat but for the heck of it I couped Vichy France and installed a nice Stalinist government. Wouldnt you know it, the Germans sent quite a few units back to deal with the pesky French. Historical? No, Plausible? No.. But it made my day. If I was forced into playing a wargame exactly as it happened, I could have saved my money and bought a book.

If i'm rambling too much dont mind me. I'm on meds before I get operated on next week.....

[LarryP]

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker
If I was forced into playing a wargame exactly as it happened, I could have saved my money and bought a book.

[:D] [:D] [:D]

[geozero]

ORIGINAL: LarryP

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker
If I was forced into playing a wargame exactly as it happened, I could have saved my money and bought a book.

[:D] [:D] [:D]

This is precisely why old AH and SPI board games worked so well. You were given OOB's and some amount of production capabilities, reinforcements, replacements, etc depending on game, but seldom did these games FORCE you to play a certain way or have scripted events...

So many great AH titles come to mind, Afrika Korps, Luftwaffe, Third Reich (of course), Russian Front, France 1940, D-Day, Anzio, the list goes on and on... any of these games you could win playing either side because of skill (and some luck).

Somewhere, someone must have decided that scripting the hell out of a PC wargame meant providing a realistic gaming experience, but JUST THE OPPOSITE is usually the case. As stated I'd rather read a book if the end result is the same pretty much every time.

PC game Devs would learn a lot playing board games of the classics IMO. Sure there still plenty of room to get more ideas into a PC game, but make it FUN, REPLAYABLE, and OPEN ENDED.

How may times are we going to play Germany invades Poland, then Scandinavia, just in time to attack low countries and France. Then hurry invade Britain before the script in JUne 1941 puts the Soviets on a war footing against you...gee wait I must attack Russia, maybe take out Yugoslavia and Greece (not for any particular reason, there's no oil or other material need, just they're in the way, and it's historical)... of no, can't take Moscow... must start the Atlantic wall before the script that has US make D-Day invasion in Normandy...not like there would be ANY other place in Europe to invade... and on, and on, and on...

[comrade]

ORIGINAL: James Ward

I've had two games where a nation declares war on a nation that just was eliminated. Once Germany did it to Russia and once Russia did it to Germany. Both times it happened on the turn after the surrender.

Do you have the save game that can replicate the problem? It'd be a great help.

[James Ward]

ORIGINAL: comrade

ORIGINAL: James Ward

I've had two games where a nation declares war on a nation that just was eliminated. Once Germany did it to Russia and once Russia did it to Germany. Both times it happened on the turn after the surrender.

Do you have the save game that can replicate the problem? It'd be a great help.

I'll try to get one as the games where this happened have been overwritten. Do you need the turn before they do it?
Also I played the 1941 scenario as the US and Germany was getting partial vicroty credit when their minor allies were eliminated, even after Germany was eliminated.
In that same game there was also a problem with 'ghost' Finns. They appear on the map but don't actually exist. I have a save of that one. Tell me where to send it.

[doomtrader]

Please attache it at the forum

[James Ward]

How do I do that?