Directive 21 playtesters thread

[sPzAbt653]

Same experience I had! At the same hex! I moved an engineer unit there promptly, then I realised the same thing you said. But there is the same situation at other locations, and I didn't notice that happening. So I determined it must have been a timing fluke. Now I'm not sure, so I'll run some tests to find out. Thanks!

[Karri]

Given that the AI doesn't seem to destory bridges, there's plenty of engineers to go around...

[cesteman]

Here's a question, because that's only a RR bridge not a regular bridge could you move an engineer unit there and then move the RR unit to repair the hex? Just a thought. Cheers.

[sPzAbt653]

...because that's only a RR bridge not a regular bridge could you move an engineer unit there and then move the RR unit to repair the hex?

Yes, you've got the idea. I ran a test and the bautrupps won't do it on their own, they need an engineer (with 'major ferry' capacity) to assist. As Karri pointed out, there are plenty of engineer units, so I don't think we have to add them to the bautrupps. I only see a few spots where this will be the case, so I shouldn't think it would be a major source of aggravation to players. Just move an engineer onto the river, and the nearby bautrupp will repair it.

And if for some reason you are short on engineer units, most of them can be broken down to 2 or 3 units and still have the required 10% Major Ferry capacity to do the job.

[sPzAbt653]

Turns 42-50. I wasn't free from the mud until turn 42, and I took the Typhoon Theater Option. Not because I wanted to, but because this is playtesting, and I want to make sure it fires properly. So I get 6 turns of 140 shock (which ended on turn 50) that I will spend setting the best defense that I can to protect myself during the 8 turns of 80 shock to follow. For those that don't follow shock settings, anything over 100 is positive (good), anything under 100 is negative (bad). I think that the idea behind the Typhoon option is to take a final stab at the Soviets and to deal a crippling blow so that the 80 shock period won't hurt too much, but I'm too conservative for that (in this game).
Since my initial plan was to hold 16 production cities at this point, and I have only 6, I've done quite poorly. On the other hand, I have an intact force all along the front, and I have over 16,000 heavy rifle squads on hand. Even with the Soviet doubling of production on turn 48, I am still causing Elmer more casualties than he can replace. So for now I will hold the line during the negative shock, while trying to get ready for the final push on Moscow.
The loss penalty so far is 468/8, with a ratio of German Heavy Rifle Squad losses to Soviet Rifle Squad losses still around 10-1.

[sPzAbt653]

One thing I wanted to do during Typhoon was to close up on the river that runs southwest from Bryansk (at the right in the screenshot). But I wasn't strong enough there to do anything. So over the last two turns I scraped up some units, found some weak spots, and made a mess of things in the area. As Elmer only has a few supply routes across that major river, I thought it was worth a try. If he is stronger than he looks, and if the 80 shock hits me hard, I'll be in a pinch. But if it works out, I'll have a nice river line of defense.

[sPzAbt653]

Turns 50-61. With that small pocket cleared I had a pretty good defensive position so I could concentrate on moving all Panzer and Motorized divisions to the Moscow area. With the eleven turns of 80% shock I had to endure, it wasn't easy. By the time the bad shock was over I was only about half done the concentration of forces. The plan was to organise five lanes of attack on a thirty hex front, right in front of Moscow. With the planned number of mobile divisions available, any weakness could be quickly exploited. Hopefully the Soviet defense in front of Moscow can be encircled and eliminated while strong mobile forces move off north and south of the city to surround it from behind. This would eliminate the necessity of butting heads against the strong Soviet defense arranged on the western fringes of the city.

[sPzAbt653]

Turns 61-72. The rough terrain in the Moscow area and the current cold weather (it's February '42 with snow) make a rapid advance very difficult. But the overwhelming number of mobile divisions worked well and some 45 Soviet divisions were encircled and destroyed. It would have been a little easier if I had more infantry divisions available, but they are busy holding the lines elsewhere. Moscow isn't encircled yet, but I think Elmer will not be able to prevent it after losing those 45 divisions. Just north of Moscow the panzers have crossed the Moscow Canal, and to the south they have arrived at some place called Serpukhov, which is just south of some place called Podolsk. Tula and Orel are temptingly close, but I don't want to stray from the goal.

[sPzAbt653]

After the panzers broke thru to the north and south of Moscow, a few divisions were able to concentrate on the softer backside of the Moscow defenses and push thru to the Kremlin. Holding the central Moscow hex is important as the Soviets will lose 20% of their production and half of their rail capacity. The six surrounding urban Moscow hexes are important as many Soviet reinforcements are scheduled to arrive there, and while under Axis control they will not appear. If the Soviets retake Moscow, they regain 15% of their production, all of their rail capacity, and the reinforcements will be able to arrive.

[larryfulkerson]

Good job Steve, on your progress. So um.......quick question: not that I'm complaining or anything but has anyone else noticed that Elmer likes to cluster his units? Here's an example up in Finland:

[sPzAbt653]

has anyone else noticed that Elmer likes to cluster his units?

Yes, it's true, and it is a valid complaint. It may not be totally avoidable, but we do what we can to prevent it. Finland is one of the most difficult areas, and we've already done a lot up there. You can send me the save file so I can take a look to see if something should be done for that particular situation. Of course, it could be a result of your excellent game play! You can see by this screen shot that I am not experiencing the same situation as you are.

[sPzAbt653]

Somebody didn't tell this engineer unit that he has to get off the ice when it melts. I would think he should either swim to shore or sink. Maybe he uses his little rubber boats to paddle around all summer, although he can't move out of that hex, but he is in supply. Shelling him with artillery or air units with anti-shipping capacity does little, so he's not a boat and he's not embarked.

[sPzAbt653]

Turns 72-93. With Moscow secure for the time, the next obvious target is the huge salient from Leningrad east. My lines are so long now that most of 1st, 2nd and 3rd Panzer Armies are involved in defensive assignments. So I can only gather 6 panzer, 2 motorized, and the newly arrived GD divisions to be used for offensive operations. With this size force a short route to Leningrad would be best, but between Lake Ilmen and the area just north of Moscow Elmer has been aggravating me, so I want to spank him. If I can, I'll follow the green line, staying close to the support of infantry divisions, while rolling up the line. If this gets bogged down, then I should quickly withdraw and reform for the direct approach to Leningrad across the Luga River.

The loss penalties have taken a strange look, 380-0 and such. But I think that and the rifle squad loss ratio is not important right now, as both are skewed by the large initial Soviet losses. It would be a better gauge to start over with those figures from this point. The air superiority numbers have been consistently like 20 for me, 70 for Elmer. I checked the Soviet replacements are they have over 20,000 planes on hand. But even after the recent eight mud turns, Elmer is still operating with zero on hand rifle squads, although he is getting 1,500+ each turn.

[Silvanski]

A few tiny equipment assignment issues.. I don't wanna be a whiner, only pointing it out[;)]

The 53th Werfer (OKH) starts with the '1942' 210mm Nebelwerfer assigned
All Pz Divisions and some FS Divisions already start with the '1942' 120mm Mortar

'1944' guns already in garrison units

The Soviets have 1950s ER artillery assigned. I understand that is to give Elmer more punch

Just for eye candy, since you use a modified eqp file, the years given for the 1950's arty could be blanked out
edit: this can be done in a nick of time with the ODD

The 18th Art Div (OKH) has a "Turn500?" appearance set... FYI The division was formed in October 1943

[Silvanski]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Turns 72-93. ....

If the first winter poses not too many problems for the Axis I'd suggest setting a short period of force pestilence to erode the units in winter zones a bit

[Silvanski]

blurbed out--- double post

ORIGINAL: Silvanski

[sPzAbt653]

...don't wanna be a whiner, only pointing it out...

Whining is ok, and pointing is encouraged!

The 53th Werfer (OKH) starts with the '1942' 210mm Nebelwerfer assigned

Thank you.

All Pz Divisions and some FS Divisions already start with the '1942' 120mm Mortar

There are a couple things going on here. The Soviets had 120mm mortars, and the Finns had some, and the other Axis units used ones that were captured. Also, the Germans had two different 82mm mortars (not in the editor). I checked the 1.Pz Div and didn't see that they have 120's. I didn't check all the rest of them, so let me know if I need to go further with this.

the years given for the 1950's arty could be blanked out

I wouldn't want to dupe the diligent investigator into thinking we believed that the Soviets had 1950's capability in the the 1940's!

The 18th Art Div was formed in October 1943

Yes, it took the place of the mauled 18th Panzer Division. I left it in the order of battle, but it will not appear. If I am questioned further on this, it will spark a debate out of me.

If the first winter poses not too many problems for the Axis I'd suggest setting a short period of force pestilence to erode the units in winter zones a bit

In my first 90 turns I had 29 turns of restriction due to muds, cease fires or bad shocks. The constraints on the Axis player can approach making the scenario unplayable. However, history must be modeled to some extent when it comes to these issues. If the consensus of the playtesters is that the Axis have it too easy during the first winter, we can change things.

Thanks Silvanski !

[Silvanski]

...18th Arty, I wouldn't dare to fuel a debate [;)]
 
About the eqp issues: the flexibility to edit scenarios is a virtue of TOAW and as this scenario is designed primarily for play vs Elmer, players like me can modify it to their liking.[8D]
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

[sPzAbt653]

18th Artillery Division- It's just that for it to be included one has to assume all the heavy casualty conditions that were the cause for its' creation. I don't see where a player has to conduct the campaign in that fashion, and I don't think they should if they expect to be successful.

That said I did leave it in the oob in case it could be put to use. Maybe it would have been formed even if the 18th Panzers' remnants hadn't been used to help fill it out. In that case it could arrive on its' own, maybe a little later than historically. I seem to remember that it didn't stay around for the duration, but that it too was decimated at some point.

The only other use I had thought for it was to have a theater option for 'Convert the 18th Pz Div into the 18th Art Div'. Maybe that way if the 18th Pz was mostly destroyed in the scenario and was lounging about in the reconstruction que, the player would have that option.

[Silvanski]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

18th Artillery Division- It's just that for it to be included one has to assume all the heavy casualty conditions that were the cause for its' creation.

An event chain like this can be set, only if the 18th Pz Div is destroyed, the 18th Arty Div appears - with an xx turn delay