So, There I Was...

[morganbj]

"Cluster ducks?"  I kinda remember the term as something a little different. [;)]
 
And, "fubar."  Ahhh, brings back some bad memories.
 

[Chad Harrison]

ORIGINAL: pad152

ORIGINAL: Terminus

It will be left in.

Sorry but, this is a game killer for me, good luck with the project

My ability to detect sarcasim is broken this morning. Pad, were you serious?

[John Lansford]

ORIGINAL: Dili

And beware of Godzilla!

Nah, he'd better not show up in AE; no nuclear underwater tests yet!

Seriously, though, does anyone have the numbers of how many ships ran aground, had magazine explosions (Mutsu's the only one I can think of) or collided with another ship (that one happened more often than once or twice) in the Pacific during WWII?

[PeteG662]

In the battle of Midway and its immediate aftermath, there were two collisions between ships. One were the two Jap cruisers near Midway trying to avoid a surfaced American sub at night and the second were two Jap destroyers heading back to Japan after the battle. That was all in the span of one week in real time in 1942. Not sure if there can be any statistical inference from this but it would appear that this could happen at any point and time.
 
Pete

[m10bob]

ORIGINAL: Tallyman662

In the battle of Midway and its immediate aftermath, there were two collisions between ships. One were the two Jap cruisers near Midway trying to avoid a surfaced American sub at night and the second were two Jap destroyers heading back to Japan after the battle. That was all in the span of one week in real time in 1942. Not sure if there can be any statistical inference from this but it would appear that this could happen at any point and time.

Pete

IIRC Tameicha Hara mentioned an incident in his book.

[John Lansford]

Nachi and Mogami collided during the Leyte Gulf battle as well, and didn't HMS King George V run over a destroyer?  Not in the Pacific, but Prinz Eugen nearly sliced a KM CL in half too.
 
Even with all these examples, the numbers of ships colliding with other ships is fairly low when you consider just how many ships were out there at one time.  The "bumps" I don't count, just the "OMG look what you did!" type collisions...

[mdiehl]

IIRC Mogami ran into a vessel in 1939 or 1940 as well.

[PeteG662]

It was Mogami and Mikuma at Midway IIRC

[Howard Mitchell]

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

... didn't HMS King George V run over a destroyer? 

HMS King George V collided with and sank the destroyer HMS Punjabi on 1 May 1942 in dense fog, putting a 40 foot gash in her bow and, as depth charges from the sinking destroyer exploded as KGV's stern passed over them, damaging the electrical systems, machinery foundations, etc. She needed nearly two months of repairs.

And for those worried about their carriers suddenly exploding for no readily apparent reason, for goodness' sake don't look up HMS Dasher...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Dasher_(D37)

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Howard Mitchell

... for goodness' sake don't look up HMS Dasher...

Evil, Howard, just evil. That's akin to saying to someone who is desperately looking for the lou "make sure you don't think about waterfalls and dripping water hoses!" Doh! [:D]

Interesting story. Especially about the cover-up. With only the small amount of detail presented I'm left a bit curious about the possibility cited of an aircraft crashing into something explosive/flammable. Did CVE's actually land planes once in harbor?

[mdiehl]

It was Mogami and Mikuma at Midway IIRC

There was also a collision before the one at Midway in the 1930s or 1940. And of course the Mogami-Nachi collision in 1944, although that one strikes me as Nachi's error. But collisions happened alot during WW2 and training exercises. I also recall a ship rammed Cowpens, and of course Washington rammed Indiana in another incident.

Wonder if anyone has ever made a comprehensive list?

[Howard Mitchell]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: Howard Mitchell

... for goodness' sake don't look up HMS Dasher...

Evil, Howard, just evil. That's akin to saying to someone who is desperately looking for the lou "make sure you don't think about waterfalls and dripping water hoses!" Doh! [:D]

Interesting story. Especially about the cover-up. With only the small amount of detail presented I'm left a bit curious about the possibility cited of an aircraft crashing into something explosive/flammable. Did CVE's actually land planes once in harbor?

I don’t know if Dasher was under way at the time. The landing speed of a Swordfish was very low, so with even a bit of head-wind it may have been possible to do so at anchor, but as she is just said to be in the Firth of Clyde she was probably moving.

Norman Friedman’s excellent book British Carrier Aviation has a few paragraphs on the incident:

“The ship had just completed flying her aircraft, all but one having been struck down into her hangar, and two Swordfish were being fuelled. The carrier suddenly exploded with the audible ‘pouff’ characteristic of a petrol vapour explosion rather than a bomb or depth charge detonation. The explosion vented through the after bulkhead of the engine room low down, up through a large hatch just forward of the lift well, up and through the ship’s side to starboard via the FAA (Fleet Air Arm) messdeck, and presumably through the bottom in several places. All light and power failed immediately (the emergency diesel generator cut in, but failed after 20 seconds), the lift was blown into the air, the after end of the flight deck was visibly damaged, a violent fire started in the after end of the hangar, the engine room also began to burn, and the ship flooded rapidly from the starboard room bulkhead to the stern. She listed to starboard at about 10 degrees and then settled quickly by the stern, sinking in about 8 minutes. Only the captain and 148 out of a crew of 526 were saved.

The Board of Inquiry noted that there was a 1in diameter hole between the petrol stowage and the mainshaft tunnel, and that there were probably also several other openings below. Men had been working in the aft depth charge stowage, immediately abaft the petrol compartment, and it was thought that a man smoking in the shaft tunnel, or throwing a lit cigarette down from the FAA messdeck (and into the petrol control compartment below) had ignited the vapour. Another possibility was a spark from the hangar lighting system, which was not up to the magazine standards imposed on British fleet carriers”.

So a carelessly discarded cigarette may have blown the whole CVE apart.

[HMSWarspite]

ORIGINAL: pad152

Yes, there are a lot of random things in WITP but, randomly losing ships to non-combat events isn't one of them.

If the developers want to put in a real weather system with ships sailing into them getting sunk and combat ops get canceled that's fine but, I don't want to lose ships to a non-existent weather system, sunk by a random number!

Unless someone can answer the questions, how many times can this happen during a campaign? or how many times is one too many? This item shouldn't make the cut.

How is this different to a combat critical hit system? You get hit by one bomb, you lose the ship due to a critical. You randomly lose ships to a combat event...

Go with it. Anything that isn't explicitly modelled in the game can be simulated by random chance. You might debate the value of the chance but the principle is sound...

[DuckofTindalos]

I'm sorry you're so upset about this, pad152, but it won't be taken out.

[witpqs]

Thanks Howard. The story is both interesting and pretty frightening.

[khyberbill]

That just means that at some time in the game one of your CVs will be attacked by a giant 750' octopus and sunk.

Hmmm, do I get movie rights?

[khyberbill]

Sub eating clams...hmmm, coming awful close to porn here. Any pics of this clam you speak of?

I think I met one of those when I was in the Silent Service. Her name was Big Fanny.

[rhohltjr]

ORIGINAL: Dili

And beware of Godzilla!

No problem. I think Godzilla is an Allied Fan Boy.[:D]
[8D]

[Gunner98]

Not just explosions, navigational problems are big ship crunchers:

Point Honda 1923, 7 destroyers sunk.

http://www.pointhondamemorial.org/

[bradfordkay]

I believe that they have stated that groundings will be among the "rare events" we might encounter.

My question is: how about tsunamis? USS Memphis comes to mind...


In reality I hope not, but the devil made me ask!