japanese expansion in all directions

[Erik Rutins]

I see a lot more "jumping to conclusions" going on, relax folks, things are different but you can't carry over all your WITP assumptions and assume that they hold. Too many things have been changed, between fixes and improvements. The end result is a better WITP but one that will also challenge you to play better.

[rroberson]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

I see a lot more "jumping to conclusions" going on, relax folks, things are different but you can't carry over all your WITP assumptions and assume that they hold. Too many things have been changed, between fixes and improvements. The end result is a better WITP but one that will also challenge you to play better.

So release the game already [:D][&o]

Do you guys have any idea how much of the Roberson treasury I need to set aside yet?

[anarchyintheuk]

In absence of facts or the game, jumping to conclusions is the only option.

[Charles2222]

ORIGINAL: rroberson

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen

ORIGINAL: castor troy





and there is no way to do anything about that (other than to use the editor BEFORE starting the PBEM)? Means no matter how good the Japanese does and how much he conquers, he won´t be able to do anything from mid 43 on because his aircraft are flown by level 5 pilots or there aren´t any pilots at all for the thousands of aircraft being built? I´m playing WITP and while I´m producing hundreds of fighters each month for example, I´m far from the total ac number being built in REAL LIFE. And still I don´t have pilots for them. I could quit playing without the on map bomb a base training runs. Just wouldn´t be fun, not for the Japanese, not for the Allied.

What makes AE worth playing when the Japanese runs out of pilots... around a year after the war started...

Castor, you should not expect that everything works the same in the AE as it did in WITP. Your experience from WITP is simply not applicable to the AE. There are too many fundamental differences between both games. Air combat, production, pilot training etc. simply work ... different.

Try to think about the AE as a new game.

I don't get the sense he expects it to work like AE. He like me worries that we will be spending a couple of years of our gaming life having our teeth kicked down our throat by allied players because AE is ultra realistic...which means its not really much of a "game". While I more then agree with a lot of the changes I have seen, I understood why the original developers did some of the things they did to balance the two sides for the "fun" factor.

I want history period, but we know the allies weren't exactly rolling in 6/42. In WITP, you could. Well they say things are slowed down and so maybe that takes care of that, but what concerns me, is the ease it seems a good number of people had against IJ, and this version seems worser yet, and I'm not so sure that just making things slower solves it. If I'm churning out pilots rated 35 the whole war, I can't see how that doesn't result in absolute disaster by 6/42. I could at least console myself that at least as long as KB didn't meet overwhelming opposition, she could have at least an expierenced pilot base to fight well, but if all that is coming out is 35's I dont' think there's any way KB survives past late-'42 even without a Midway. To get KB back up to strength, just the PH battle alone will put them at 30 of those 35 rated bums in there. Maybe that's how you make less killing on the air units, that everybody gets bums that don't know how to shoot as replacements, because while IJ will suffer terribly from this, assuming I got it right, the replacements for the allies won't exactly be Roger Ramjets themselves. So "maybe" if everybody is getting bums, it won't be so bad, but plummeting from 80 to 35 is massive.

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk
In absence of facts or the game, jumping to conclusions is the only option.

Actually, no. What I would recommend is asking questions rather than jumping to conclusions and having some faith that your favorite game is in good hands. All the extra testing and tweaking time was not, in fact, to make sure that we neutered the Japanese. I think the game at present is pretty well balanced. I'll ask someone on the dev team to comment on the pilot concerns in more detail.

Regards,

- Erik

[sven6345789]

I think there are still a lot of things you can do better than the japanese did historiclly;
service interaction! did not exist in real life. The best way to simulate how the IJA and the IJN cocoperated in the real thing would be to have two players for japan who manage their assets, the R&D and their supply independent from one another, meeting about once every two months to coordinate things a little or not if they disagree
furthermore, you can manage your airforce a little better, coordinate your offensive better (like not splitting up your carriers and thus keeping the advantage you have)
If Japan gets sucked into attrition, that is it; you cannot win that. So you need to deny such a battle to the allied player for as long as possible.
Also, coordinate your resupply; The japanese Merchant Pool was split into three faction for army, navy and civil use, sometimes resulting in two convoys leaving the same harbor with the same destination without knowing from one another.
So, i think there are several things you can do to get a better result than historically.
And if everything fails, have fun with the first 6 months [:)]

I once read about a german being shown the japanese airplane R&D program. First, he visited the Navy facility. After that, he visited the army facility. Neither Army or Navy officers were allowed to even enter the others R&D facility.

[anarchyintheuk]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk
In absence of facts or the game, jumping to conclusions is the only option.

Actually, no. What I would recommend is asking questions rather than jumping to conclusions and having some faith that your favorite game is in good hands. All the extra testing and tweaking time was not, in fact, to make sure that we neutered the Japanese. I think the game at present is pretty well balanced. I'll ask someone on the dev team to comment on the pilot concerns in more detail.

Regards,

- Erik

My prior post was sarcastic. I realize sarcasm doesn't travel well on forums but I've yet to find an acceptable smiley for it.

I don't have any complaints/concerns re neutering IJN/IJA or pilots.

[ChickenOfTheSea]

ORIGINAL: sven6345789

If Japan gets sucked into attrition, that is it; you cannot win that. So you need to deny such a battle to the allied player for as long as possible.

Excellent point. In my experience, this is the key to doing well as Japan. Conserve ships, planes, and pilots for battles when and where it matters most. Use interior lines to your advantage to gain local superiority.

[Tanaka]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

p.s also be aware the editor is so ludicrously easy to use that even if you don't want to play the 'new' stock scenario or the new 'enhanced' japan scenario then you can easily edit it to make fantasy war in the pacific.

Hi Andy,

Is it possible to edit the AI unit settings by groups? (Example all AI float planes set to %100 search)

[Andy Mac]

It is possible I think Tanaka but its not a great idea fatigue would get nasty

[Q-Ball]

Question: What happens in AE to all the pilots if a CV sinks?

At Midway, according to Shattered Sword, over 40% of the IJN pilots were rescued to fight another day.

In WITP, a Midway would produce 100% pilot fatalities.

Is this changed in AE? If pilot training is made more realistic, then pilot survivability should be as well.

[spence]

I certainly concur with Q-ball. "Shattered Sword" (which does much to dispel the popular image of Japanese superiority in all things naval) specifically speaks to the loss of the elite IJN pilots at Midway and concludes that the losses at Eastern Solomons and Santa Cruz (the Guadalcanal Campaign) were the losses that decimated the IJN's pilot pool and put them behind the 8-ball for the rest of the war in that respect. The book does not downplay the results of the American victory but concludes that the loss of pilots/aircrew was not nearly as important as the loss of the 4 flight decks that the IJN lost. The IJN "victory" at Santa Cruz was much much more costly to the IJN in terms of pilots/aircrew lost.

[jwilkerson]

ORIGINAL: castor troy

and there is no way to do anything about that (other than to use the editor BEFORE starting the PBEM)? Means no matter how good the Japanese does and how much he conquers, he won´t be able to do anything from mid 43 on because his aircraft are flown by level 5 pilots or there aren´t any pilots at all for the thousands of aircraft being built? I´m playing WITP and while I´m producing hundreds of fighters each month for example, I´m far from the total ac number being built in REAL LIFE. And still I don´t have pilots for them. I could quit playing without the on map bomb a base training runs. Just wouldn´t be fun, not for the Japanese, not for the Allied.

What makes AE worth playing when the Japanese runs out of pilots... around a year after the war started...

I think it takes a Japanese player to explain things to a Japanese player - so we can speak Japanese player speak!!! [:D] And given that I've played several thousand PBEM WITP turns as Japanese and only about 100 as Allies - I guess I qualify!

So, Castor, I too was worried about this aspect, and there was a point in time where I thought this would be the number one barrier to people playing the Japanese in PBEM - whether it is "realistic" or not - I thought it would be so different from WITP that it would turn people away.

The reality - in my AE experience is that things just work differently now. In my current test game - I had Kaga heavily damaged and Hiryu lightly damaged - a few months before Junyo came in - and more months before Hiyo came in. Also Kaga's airgroup had lost heavily, Hiryu's not so heavily. So I repopulated the airgroups and started training them (ashore) while the carriers were repairing. Once Junyo came in - I filled up her air group and started training them as well - once Hiyo came in the same. Also went ahead and put Kaga and Hiryu through their first upgrades. Once all this was done - the skill levels - for the most important skills were averaging 70ish - "air" and "defense" for the fighters - torpedo bombing for the kates - etc. so now that I am back at sea with this batch of ships - I feel like I can function pretty well.

So you can still train up your groups. Just now you do it with the training mission instead of the "dot bombing" mission.

Allies can do the same. In a game I was playing as Allies - I got some awful - 30ish air groups - and I trained them up a lot - before sending them into action.

The big difference is now the training mission works.

[Chijohnaok2]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

For those who don't mind playing a real slog-match over three or four years of real time and six years of game time, it'll be satisfying.

LOL....within 4 years of starting that game, Microsoft may come out with a new operating system, and you would have upgraded to a new computer at least once. Would AE still work on your new computer with the new MS operating system?

[Tanaka]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

It is possible I think Tanaka but its not a great idea fatigue would get nasty

Ah yes true I did not think about this a good reason for the AI unit settings to never change is that it never rotates or draws down for rest! Well hopefully the settings are the best they can be considering this!

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

ORIGINAL: castor troy

and there is no way to do anything about that (other than to use the editor BEFORE starting the PBEM)? Means no matter how good the Japanese does and how much he conquers, he won´t be able to do anything from mid 43 on because his aircraft are flown by level 5 pilots or there aren´t any pilots at all for the thousands of aircraft being built? I´m playing WITP and while I´m producing hundreds of fighters each month for example, I´m far from the total ac number being built in REAL LIFE. And still I don´t have pilots for them. I could quit playing without the on map bomb a base training runs. Just wouldn´t be fun, not for the Japanese, not for the Allied.

What makes AE worth playing when the Japanese runs out of pilots... around a year after the war started...

I think it takes a Japanese player to explain things to a Japanese player - so we can speak Japanese player speak!!! [:D] And given that I've played several thousand PBEM WITP turns as Japanese and only about 100 as Allies - I guess I qualify!

So, Castor, I too was worried about this aspect, and there was a point in time where I thought this would be the number one barrier to people playing the Japanese in PBEM - whether it is "realistic" or not - I thought it would be so different from WITP that it would turn people away.

The reality - in my AE experience is that things just work differently now. In my current test game - I had Kaga heavily damaged and Hiryu lightly damaged - a few months before Junyo came in - and more months before Hiyo came in. Also Kaga's airgroup had lost heavily, Hiryu's not so heavily. So I repopulated the airgroups and started training them (ashore) while the carriers were repairing. Once Junyo came in - I filled up her air group and started training them as well - once Hiyo came in the same. Also went ahead and put Kaga and Hiryu through their first upgrades. Once all this was done - the skill levels - for the most important skills were averaging 70ish - "air" and "defense" for the fighters - torpedo bombing for the kates - etc. so now that I am back at sea with this batch of ships - I feel like I can function pretty well.

So you can still train up your groups. Just now you do it with the training mission instead of the "dot bombing" mission.

Allies can do the same. In a game I was playing as Allies - I got some awful - 30ish air groups - and I trained them up a lot - before sending them into action.

The big difference is now the training mission works.

thanks for the explanation

[Czert3]

When fatigue is here quested - is in AE some automation for managing of fatigue ? I mean - e.q. you can set if fatigue go over 80% go to rest, when drop below 20% rersume operations at previous level.  Similiar to aircraft ready/repaired - e.q if is only 30% flyable go to rest, after more than 80% operation resume missions again.
 
 

[NormS3]

Are allied pilots still forced to rotate to the rear? If so what are the # of missions before this happens?

Did I read that the option to withdrawl them to use as trainers is not gonna be in AE?

Thanks for all your hard work on AE guys and thanks in advance for any answers that you have time to give. I betr AE would have been out half a year sooner if we weren't constantly asking you all questions! [;)]

Thanks

[Andy Mac]

Just to add a couple more observations based on my testing and other test games
 
During the initial Japanese advance you need to take account of the strategic options available to your opponent. More so than stock the allied 20:20 hindsight option gives the allies options
 
Identifying the location of 44th 45th Indian Bdes, 7th Armoured Bde, 18th British Div and 6th and 7th Aus Div are VITAL clues for the Japanese. That lot are pretty much every battle ready formation the allies get in 41 early 42 and working out where they are committed is your no.1 job as a recon pilots
 
There are a number of places that the Japanese can be held up or even stopped cold if they miss the deployment of those forces (thats about 2,000 AV total)
 
Variants like committing them all to Java, Burma, Timor etc etc can cause mayhem for a Japanese timetable - in PBEM using them en masse will I think become standard so you need to be 100% certain where they are going.
 
Allied player using 20:20 hindsight will cause problems - by March/April 42 even allied shipping could concentrate them all in one location.
 
I think they are defeatable but you as the Japanese player need to force the pace to force deployment piecemeal.
 
I cannot see in PBEM many players committing 18th Brit Div to Malaya or the two Indian Bdes so that will be your first signpost - watch for it 

[Jonathan Pollard]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

We do have an enhanced Japan scen as well, with more of everything for the Jap player.

I think it would make more sense from a historical point of view to have an enhanced Germany scenario, or more specifically a Germany that does better than it did historically from Dec '41 onwards. This would essentially mean a weakened Allies scenario because it would mean that resources committed to the Pacific would instead be sent to Europe. It would also mean less Soviet units in the Far East.

Another option would be a variable Germany in which Germany randomly does better or worse than it did historically, thereby making Allied reinforcements in the Pacific randomized based on how well Germany does.

Also, am I to understand that the Japanese are allowed to expand their aircraft production to a point higher than they achieved historically, at the same time effectively prohibiting them from expanding their flight training schools?