Glug, glug, glug in the Aleutians

[Kull]

Yet one day later, what do we see? Six, count 'em SIX Allied TFs streaming westward toward Kiska, including one that's already landed an invasion force! The moral of the story? In AE, you should NEVER feel completely safe! [:)]

[Kull]

One of the the Allied Transport TFs encountered I-7 during its run to Kiska, and the results were familiar: Sub doesn't launch an attack, yet is discovered and attacked (this trend is becoming seriously annoying - one wonders if sub passivity, like the remarkable ASW success rate, is related to the high escort-to-transport ratio). Fortunately the ASW was not very effective, generating only 9 rattles. Although the damage numbers look fairly bad, I-7 began the day with 14 sys and 2 eng damage, so the real results of the attack were 17 sys, 8 flt, and 1 eng. The commander has good skills, so maybe that helped.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR May 31, 43
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Adak Island at 162,51

Japanese Ships
SS I-7, hits 9

Allied Ships
APA J. Franklin Bell
LSI(M) Prince Henry
DD Morris
DD Coghlan
KV Vancouver
DMS Chandler

DD Morris attacking submerged sub ....
DD Coghlan fails to find sub and abandons search
KV Vancouver attacking submerged sub ....
DMS Chandler fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Morris fails to find sub, continues to search...
KV Vancouver fails to find sub and abandons search
DMS Chandler fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Morris attacking submerged sub ....
DD Morris attacking submerged sub ....
Escort abandons search for sub

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Kull]

It's June 1st and the two midget subs patrolling Kiska leap into action! Or not. Neither one attacks, but both are discovered and assaulted by Transport TF escorts with devastating results. Ha-29 actually took 1 hull penetrating hit and a second near miss that flooded the conning tower. Then there was a second penetrating hit (really? Midgets can survive even one?) which brough forth the always entertaining "submarine obliterated by direct hit". [:(].

But her actions were the paragon of perfection compared to Ha-31. Escorts made one run and immediately scored a hull penetration, following which a "large oil slick appears over area of attack". Thanks for the stellar performance, guys!

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Jun 01, 43
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Kiska Island at 157,51

Japanese Ships
SSX Ha-29, hits 3, heavy damage

Allied Ships
LSI(M) Prince Henry
DD Coghlan
KV Vancouver
DMS Chandler

DD Coghlan fails to find sub, continues to search...
KV Vancouver attacking submerged sub ....
DMS Chandler fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Coghlan fails to find sub, continues to search...
KV Vancouver fails to find sub, continues to search...
DMS Chandler attacking submerged sub ....
Underwater explosion, debris and oil appear on surface!
Escort abandons search for sub

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Kiska Island at 157,51

Japanese Ships
SSX Ha-31, hits 1, heavy damage

Allied Ships
DD Phelps

DD Phelps attacking submerged sub ....
Large oil slick appears over area of attack!
Escort abandons search for sub

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Kull]

As the Allied Transport TFs departed from Kiska (scared off by two IJN SCTFs that were unable to attack 4 anchored Transport TFs - which isn't totally a surprise since it was night, moonlight was zero, heavy rain, and the allied radar spotted the radar-less IJN at 30,000), one of them bumped into I-9 and it was the usual: Sub doesn't launch an attack, yet is discovered and attacked. Multiple ASW runs score 7 rattles and 1 hull penetration, leading to 60 points of damage. At least the sub escaped and remains on patrol (but only because there's less than two weeks to go in the scenario).

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Jun 02, 43
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Adak Island at 160,51

Japanese Ships
SS I-9, hits 8

Allied Ships
DD Coghlan
KV Vancouver
DMS Chandler

DD Coghlan fails to find sub, continues to search...
KV Vancouver fails to find sub, continues to search...
DMS Chandler fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Coghlan attacking submerged sub ....
KV Vancouver attacking submerged sub ....
DMS Chandler attacking submerged sub ....
DD Coghlan fails to find sub, continues to search...
KV Vancouver fails to find sub, continues to search...
DMS Chandler fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Coghlan fails to find sub, continues to search...
KV Vancouver fails to find sub, continues to search...
DMS Chandler attacking submerged sub ....
Escort abandons search for sub

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Kull]

Shokaku and friends damaged an Allied Transport TF unloading at Kiska, including the rare bombing of an Allied DD (I turn Torps off when going after an escort laden TF as they are essentially useless against DDs). This directly led to the first-ever torpedo attack by a Midget Sub (none occurred in my first played-to-completion Aleutians scenario). Ha-33 took a shot at the heavily damaged DD, but missed. Fortunately there was no ASW follow-up as the DD is apparently alone in an "Escort" TF and too battered to do anything. Even more surprising, Ha-33 tried to attack again, but was out of ammo. And unfortunately the whole sequence caught me by surprise, so I failed to capture a screen shot. Gah.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Jun 04, 43
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Kiska Island at 157,51

Japanese Ships
SSX Ha-33

Allied Ships
DD Caldwell, on fire, heavy damage

SSX Ha-33 is sighted by DD Caldwell
SSX Ha-33 launches 2 torpedoes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Kiska Island at 157,51

Japanese Ships
SSX Ha-33

Allied Ships
DD Caldwell, on fire, heavy damage

SSX Ha-33 is sighted by DD Caldwell
SSX Ha-33 fails to launch torpedoes due to mechanical problems (AE-speak for "out of ammo")

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Kull]

And the very next day (June 5th) what to I-175's wondering eye should appear, but a smoking DD all alone in the clear! So she lined her up and took a shot and the force shield that apparently surrounds even heavily damaged DDs kept the Torps from hitting. Gah, redux! [:@]

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Jun 05, 43
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Kiska Island at 159,51

Japanese Ships
SS I-175

Allied Ships
DD Caldwell, heavy damage

SS I-175 launches 2 torpedoes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Kull]

A Midget sub without torpedoes is even more useless than a midget sub with torpedoes (at least in theory), and since there was a Sub Tender up at Attu (assisting in I-24's repair - flotation damage now down to 76), it seemed like a good idea to steam poste-haste down to Kiska to try and reload H-33. And as you can see, the AS was able to dock and replenish the torpedoes (no action on my part required). Not sure if docking is required for to happen, though. Will try and run a test to check that out.

Edit: In case you were wondering why the midget is showing 18 flt and 4 eng damage, almost a month earlier (May 8th), Ha-33 is the midget that was involved in a collision with a freighter (see Post #16). And she only completed those repairs a few days ago - although the major damage remains (no shipyards up here at Kiska)

[Kull]

After almost two weeks without a sinking, luck finally ran out for the IJN, I-157 in particular. It was the usual sequence of sub encounters Transport TF, does not attack, is discovered anyway and pounded multiple times by the escorts (2-1 escort-to-transport ratio), takes a bunch of hits including two hull penetrations, surfaces helplessly as the onslaught continues, and then slips beneath the waves.

Probably coincidental, but the last sinking (of I-31) also involved DD Coughlan.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Jun 06, 43
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Dutch Harbor at 166,51

Japanese Ships
SS I-157, hits 29, and is sunk

Allied Ships
APA Harris
xAP Branch
DD Coghlan
DD Bache
KV Vancouver
DM Pruitt

I-157 diving deep ....
DD Coghlan attacking submerged sub ....
DD Bache fails to find sub, continues to search...
KV Vancouver attacking submerged sub ....
DM Pruitt fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Coghlan attacking submerged sub ....
DD Bache attacking submerged sub ....
KV Vancouver fails to find sub, continues to search...
DM Pruitt fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Coghlan fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Bache attacking submerged sub ....
SS I-157 forced to surface!
DD Coghlan firing on surfaced sub ....
DD Bache firing on surfaced sub ....
DD Coghlan firing on surfaced sub ....
DD Bache firing on surfaced sub ....
DD Coghlan firing on surfaced sub ....
DD Bache firing on surfaced sub ....
DD Coghlan firing on surfaced sub ....
Sub slips beneath the waves

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Kull]

ORIGINAL: Kull

And as you can see, the AS was able to dock and replenish the torpedoes (no action on my part required). Not sure if docking is required for to happen, though. Will try and run a test to check that out.

VERY interesting! Something happened that caught me totally by surprise, and as a result I've spent the past few hours running a series of tests in order to fully grasp the implications. In short, Submarines can be refueled at sea! The discovery process began as part of a test to see whether an AS can replenish torpedoes if it's not docked. As noted in Post #86, I-175 is down a few torps after shooting at a DD. Accordingly, I altered her patrol zone so she would meet up with the AS at the shallow hex just east of Attu (154,49). To ensure the sub didn't wander off prematurely, "Linger" was set at 4 days, and the refuel option was set at "Full Refuel" (in case this would encourage torp replenishment)

[Kull]

On the very next turn, the AS and I-175 occupied the same hex, and although torpedoes had not been replenished, the sub had refueled out of the AS' fuel bunkers! This was rather shocking as it seemed to contradict the early refueling tests from Post #40 (Repenishment TF) and Post #69 (Support TF - using an AS). However reloading those games showed that the common feature is the "Replenish TF button" is greyed out. What I had not tried in those earlier tests was to use the "refuel option" which is included with the Waypoint and Patrol Zone routing options. So the next test would be to go back in time and try this new theory.

[Kull]

ORIGINAL: Kull

So the next test would be to go back in time and try this new theory.

It's May 20th, and I-75 has run out of fuel near Paramushiro. This time the Patrol Zone has been reset so she can move one hex and Linger a few turns in Full Refuel mode. Meanwhile, a new Support TF with the AS will move out from Paramushiro to meet the sub at the "linger hex"

Edit: Unfortunately this post has taken the top spot on a new page. To synopsize the recent discovery, Submarines CAN refuel at Sea, and I'm running some tests to establish when and how it works (start with Post #88 near the bottom of Page 3)

[Kull]

And amazingly enough, the submarine will NOT refuel!! I'll spare you ten or so additional screen shots, but the fact is that a submarine with zero fuel will not refuel from anything, no matter what you do to the Patrol settings, Waypoint settings, Destination hex, or type of TF sent out to perform the refuel mission.

In fact, additional tests prove that you can refuel a Submarine from ANY kind of surface Task Force, so long as there is some fuel left in the tanks and the Waypoint or Patrol refuel options are set to allow some level of refuelling (Minimal, Tactical, or Full). So the fact that refueling at sea does not work when a submarine is at Zero Fuel, has got to be a bug - it simply makes no sense.

[Kull]

When I reported the new "bug" in the Tech Support forum, it turns out that Subs are not supposed to be able to refuel at sea, so the new "discovery" is the real Bug. Whereas the "Zero Fuel = No Refueling" Bug is actually the way the game should be working!

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

Well, since the intent was not to let subs refuel at sea, the waypoint refuel seems to be a bug. No refuel from zero is just a bug in a bug.

I'll take a look.

[Kull]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

I will block the refueling of subs at sea via waypoint refuel option.

It looks like the new "Feature" is going to be eliminated by the upcoming patch, so I won't waste any more time testing out refuel options and parameters for subs. I did confirm that the feature does not work when both TFs are sub-type. And you will now be spared a series of tests designed to see just how far across the ocean a midget TF could travel if it was accompanied by a refueling surface TF. [;)]

Back to the AAR. It's June 7th and there's only 6 days left in the scenario. Should be enough time to finish the scenario and develop a full list of "lessons learned".

[Kull]

The second of three newly arrived subs meets her maker. Some of the details shift a bit, but the basic story remained the same: I-155 encountered a Transport TF, did not attack, was discovered anyway and pounded multiple times by the escorts (4-1 escort-to-transport ratio), took a bunch of hits including two hull penetrations, after the last of which "debris floated to the surface". Et Fin.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Jun 07, 43
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Adak Island at 162,51

Japanese Ships
SS I-155, hits 15, on fire, heavy damage (sunk)

Allied Ships
xAP Henry Failing
DD Balch
DD Phelps
DD Reid
DD Morris

DD Balch fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Phelps attacking submerged sub ....
DD Reid fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Morris attacking submerged sub ....
DD Balch attacking submerged sub ....
DD Phelps fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Morris fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Balch fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Phelps attacking submerged sub ....
Debris floats to surface in area of attack!
Escort abandons search for sub

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Kull]

Later that day, I-9 ran into the same Transport TF, but luckily escaped with only 8 minor hits (I-9 too did nothing to trigger the assault). The incurred damage was fairly low (16 sys, 13 flt, 1 eng), but this was the second ASW attack in five days (see Post #84), and as a result, the cumulative effect of the two attacks is quite major - 98 total points. But apparently it's not enough to initiate the return-to-base code, so she remains on patrol!

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Jun 07, 43
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Adak Island at 160,51

Japanese Ships
SS I-9, hits 8, heavy damage

Allied Ships
DMS Perry
xAP Henry Failing
xAP Flavel
xAK Lakona
DD Balch
DD Phelps
DD Reid
DD Morris

DD Balch fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Phelps attacking submerged sub ....
DD Reid attacking submerged sub ....
DD Morris fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Phelps fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Reid fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Phelps fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Phelps fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Kull]

I-175 and the Sub Tender are both in the Attu hex, but neither is docked, and consequently I-175 did not load torpedoes. (it's still at 12 of 14). So this turn I'm going to disband I-175 into the Port and keep the AS undocked to see if that will load torps (I suspect docking is required, as that's what happened at Kiska). But, we'll soon find out!

[Kull]

ORIGINAL: Kull

I-175 and the Sub Tender are both in the Attu hex, but neither is docked, and consequently I-175 did not load torpedoes. (it's still at 12 of 14). So this turn I'm going to disband I-175 into the Port and keep the AS undocked to see if that will load torps (I suspect docking is required, as that's what happened at Kiska). But, we'll soon find out!

And indeed we did. And as usual, my suspicions were incorrect! LOL If you could bet against me in Vegas, you'd all be rich men! [:)] So. Even though the Support TF was undocked, the sub was able to offload some torpedos and head out on Patrol (thank you, "computer control"). Four days to go....

[skrewball]

Kull,

I'm loving this series! I hope you branch out into testing the other scenarios!

Question...do you feel as if ASW is too accurate and deadly? Pretty much every sub encounter results in severe damage or a sunken sub.

[Kull]

ORIGINAL: skrewball

Kull,

I'm loving this series! I hope you branch out into testing the other scenarios!

Thanks man! One of the things that makes this different from other AE AARs is the extremely narrow focus. Since I report almost exclusively on subs, that allows me to really dive deep down into how they work and interact with other elements of AE. The whole experience has been very educational for me, and hopefully for others, too.

Question...do you feel as if ASW is too accurate and deadly? Pretty much every sub encounter results in severe damage or a sunken sub.

It's funny because my first Aleutians scenario saw such an appalling toll on the subs that I started the AAR as more of a lark than anything - "how quickly can the AI sink them all!" But as time passed and the detailed records have begun to accumulate, I'm beginning to draw some conclusions as to what might really be going on here.

Once the final days are done (only three to go), I'll add up the numbers and present my findings and theories. Stay tuned!