FITE MOD 2010
Moderators: JAMiAM, ralphtricky
RE: FITE MOD 2010
For Soviet production and replacements, consideration also has to be given the 66% turn 1 reduction of the numbers that appear in the replacement editor, the increases of 200% at turn 48, and 150% at turns 78 and 352, along with the 5 to 10% production hits for lost cities. Another factor is the rate at which lost equipment returns to the replacement pool. Early in the campaign the Soviets were unable to recover most of their lost equipment, but the game engine will put much of it back into the replacement pool (unless the equipment had no line of communication when lost).
RE: FITE MOD 2010
...the limitations under which scenario developers must work. Not being able to change production rates during the course of a scenario is one of these.
This can be done, it depends on the situation. If you provide a specific example, I can probably come up with a solution.
...the initial Red Army forces being far too well provisioned needs to be addressed.
Especially the Mechanized Corps, Glantz gives some excellent reviews on these units and how, as stated earlier, most of them were reduced to foot infantry units after a few days in contact with the enemy.
- morleron1225
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RE: FITE MOD 2010
ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
...the limitations under which scenario developers must work. Not being able to change production rates during the course of a scenario is one of these.
This can be done, it depends on the situation. If you provide a specific example, I can probably come up with a solution.
...the initial Red Army forces being far too well provisioned needs to be addressed.
Especially the Mechanized Corps, Glantz gives some excellent reviews on these units and how, as stated earlier, most of them were reduced to foot infantry units after a few days in contact with the enemy.
How would one change the production rate of, by way of example, Soviet infantry squads from (again, just by way of example) 1100 per turn to 750 per turn and you want to do it if a specific target hex is occupied by player 2? I'm just looking for a general example that could then be tailored as necessary for specific equipment types.
Sounds like it's time for me to hit ABEBooks and pick up more of Glantz's books. I've got his volume on Kursk and the first of his trilogy for Stalingrad, but those are a bit late for what we're talking about. Do you have any specific titles in mind? I just hate it when I have to go buy more books. [;)]
Thanks,
Ron
P.S. BTW, for those of you not familiar with it, ABEBooks.com is a great site for picking up used (and new) books at very reasonable prices. It's a co-op website of independent booksellers and I've always gotten great service from any whom I've done business with.
Free men do not ask permission to bear arms.
GnuPG public key available at: pgp.mit.edu
GnuPG public key available at: pgp.mit.edu
RE: FITE MOD 2010
How would one change the production rate of, by way of example, Soviet infantry squads from (again, just by way of example) 1100 per turn to 750 per turn and you want to do it if a specific target hex is occupied by player 2?
For that example units could be used, but there are no Soviet unit slots available in FitE. Maybe for TOAW IV, replacement begin and end dates could be tied to turn and event, as unit arrivals are. Maybe that is on the Wishlist already.
Glantz's Colossus books are good. I also like Seaton's Russo-German War.
RE: FITE MOD 2010
Does anyone else think that there's a problem with rail movement for either side? Too many rail lines? Too high of a rail capacity?
RE: FITE MOD 2010
I think rail capacity is enough. Sometimes feel as Soviets, that there would be lots more RC. If you move one full tank corps by rail, it uses almost all of your RC. That's why i don't usually rail them at all.ORIGINAL: Panama
Does anyone else think that there's a problem with rail movement for either side? Too many rail lines? Too high of a rail capacity?
- morleron1225
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RE: FITE MOD 2010
ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
How would one change the production rate of, by way of example, Soviet infantry squads from (again, just by way of example) 1100 per turn to 750 per turn and you want to do it if a specific target hex is occupied by player 2?
For that example units could be used, but there are no Soviet unit slots available in FitE. Maybe for TOAW IV, replacement begin and end dates could be tied to turn and event, as unit arrivals are. Maybe that is on the Wishlist already.
Glantz's Colossus books are good. I also like Seaton's Russo-German War.
I understand how to change production rates by designing a new unit with different equipment types that would have different production rates. I also know that such an approach isn't possible with FITE and TOAW as they currently function. That's why, in an earlier comment I'd mentioned that. I was under the impression that perhaps I'd missed something with the current scenario editor that would avoid that problem. Wouldn't you know, the one time I was hoping that I was wrong, I wasn't.[&:] In any case, I'm with you on hoping that TOAW IV will avoid this problem by not setting arbitrary limits to force sizes, equipment lists, etc.
Thanks for the tip on the books. I'll definitely get them on order asap.
Free men do not ask permission to bear arms.
GnuPG public key available at: pgp.mit.edu
GnuPG public key available at: pgp.mit.edu
RE: FITE MOD 2010
How would one change the production rate of, by way of example, Soviet infantry squads from (again, just by way of example) 1100 per turn to 750 per turn and you want to do it if a specific target hex is occupied by player 2?
Set the target hex to incur a pestilence effect on the Soviet player. Pestilence only effects infantry equipment, removing a portion of it every turn.
- larryfulkerson
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RE: FITE MOD 2010
How would one change the production rate of, by way of example, Soviet infantry squads from (again, just by way of example) 1100 per turn to 750 per turn and you want to do it if a specific target hex is occupied by player 2?
So um....does the pestilence effect Affect only those that move that turn or everybody regaurdless of whether or not they move?ORIGINAL: Fungwu
Set the target hex to incur a pestilence effect on the Soviet player. Pestilence only effects infantry equipment, removing a portion of it every turn.
We've all heard how computers can beat humans at anything computational but I've yet to meet a computer that can beat me at kick boxing.
RE: FITE MOD 2010
The Force Pestilence Level
This value represents a force’s vulnerability to disease losses, and is limited to the range 0 to 50. It sets a percentage of equipment lost by every unit in the force on every turn. Infantry, horse transport and cavalry equipment is lost at this rate, while all other types of equipment are lost at half the rate.
Half of infantry, cavalry, and horse transport equipment lost by units in supplied locations is sent to the replacement pool. All non-infantry, non-cavalry, non-horse transport equipment lost by units in supplied locations is sent to the replacement pool. All other pestilence losses are permanent. This value should rarely be set above 5%, and in most cases should be lower. The default is 0%. This value may be set from the OOB editor Edit > Modify Current Force menu, or by use of the Force Pestilence Pestilence 1, or Pestilence 2) event effects.
This value represents a force’s vulnerability to disease losses, and is limited to the range 0 to 50. It sets a percentage of equipment lost by every unit in the force on every turn. Infantry, horse transport and cavalry equipment is lost at this rate, while all other types of equipment are lost at half the rate.
Half of infantry, cavalry, and horse transport equipment lost by units in supplied locations is sent to the replacement pool. All non-infantry, non-cavalry, non-horse transport equipment lost by units in supplied locations is sent to the replacement pool. All other pestilence losses are permanent. This value should rarely be set above 5%, and in most cases should be lower. The default is 0%. This value may be set from the OOB editor Edit > Modify Current Force menu, or by use of the Force Pestilence Pestilence 1, or Pestilence 2) event effects.
RE: FITE MOD 2010
Pestilence should not simply be a disease loss. Broken bones, vehicle accidents, fights, food poisoning, miss fires, ruined weapon, vehicle breakdown, people run over by tanks, desertion, awol, still in the latrine. It should cover a host of things for why a piece of equipment or a soldier is no longer available at the front lines fit for duty.
I think the effect on personel is a bit harsh. On non human objects it looks to work fairly well. Broke down, fixed, back to the equipment pool. People go to the hospital and recover at more than 50% I would think. Maybe this is another thing the scenario designer should be allowed to configure and adjust during the course of a scenario. Separate it into personel pestilance and equipment 'pestilance'.
I think the effect on personel is a bit harsh. On non human objects it looks to work fairly well. Broke down, fixed, back to the equipment pool. People go to the hospital and recover at more than 50% I would think. Maybe this is another thing the scenario designer should be allowed to configure and adjust during the course of a scenario. Separate it into personel pestilance and equipment 'pestilance'.
RE: FITE MOD 2010
I would put the reinforcements priority for the units that the Red Army will disband (Mech corps) to none. That way, if the Sovjet player moves them, they will lose they punch.
The German tank productions seems way to low, unless I'm missing something.
Historical:
Ausf G 1940/41 600
Ausf H 1940/41 308
Ausf J (early) 1941/42 1549
Ausf J (late) 1941/42 1067
Ausf L 1942 653
Ausf M 1942/43 250
Ausf N 1942/43 700
In game:
Pz-IIIG 166 + 282
Pz-IIIH 741 +224
Pz-IIIJ 984
Now of course not all produced tanks got to the East front, but most did.
And the sovjet reinforcement rate needs to be adjusted, while still forcing the German player to advance.
The German tank productions seems way to low, unless I'm missing something.
Historical:
Ausf G 1940/41 600
Ausf H 1940/41 308
Ausf J (early) 1941/42 1549
Ausf J (late) 1941/42 1067
Ausf L 1942 653
Ausf M 1942/43 250
Ausf N 1942/43 700
In game:
Pz-IIIG 166 + 282
Pz-IIIH 741 +224
Pz-IIIJ 984
Now of course not all produced tanks got to the East front, but most did.
And the sovjet reinforcement rate needs to be adjusted, while still forcing the German player to advance.
RE: FITE MOD 2010
ORIGINAL: Karri
Panama, have you tested this "force Soviet to fly" theory of yours?
One of the problems with the Red AF is that they can't fly. So often there are many of them in reorg. The entire time they are grounded they are piling up replacements, supply and readiness. So presto, many come out of reorg at once and the Axis is overwhelmed by the sudden appearance of Soviet air power.
Still, I think you are right Karri. The Soviet AF is too powerful and needs to be cut down to size in some fashion. Simply flying does not seem to be the cure since the game itself keeps too many air units on the ground.
RE: FITE MOD 2010
I'm on turn 40 now, and the Axis are once again being shot out of the sky(with about 2 soviets shot down for each german plane). I guess I'll try giving the Axis a bigger positive shock next.
- LLv34_Snefens
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RE: FITE MOD 2010
ORIGINAL: madner
In game:
Pz-IIIG 166 + 282
Pz-IIIH 741 +224
Pz-IIIJ 984
In the scenario Early J is grouped together with the H model, hence the higher than historical ammount of that mark.
Late J includes late J, L and M. The N model is included in the Stu41 numbers.
In game is actually
Pz-IIIG: 282 Assigned + 166 On hand = 448 (74% of production)
Pz-IIIH: 741 Assigned + 224 produced = 965 (51% of production)
Pz-IIIJ: 757 Reinforcements + 992 produced = 1749 (88% of production)
Stefan O. Kristensen
RE: FITE MOD 2010
I can see how German figures would be a problem since they had more than one place to send things. Are there any accurate sources that show what went where?
- larryfulkerson
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RE: FITE MOD 2010
ORIGINAL: Panama
I can see how German figures would be a problem since they had more than one place to send things. Are there any accurate sources that show what went where?
I would be very surprised to learn that there are any sources that show what went where. But we can dream. I'm crossing my fingers.
We've all heard how computers can beat humans at anything computational but I've yet to meet a computer that can beat me at kick boxing.
RE: FITE MOD 2010
I recall reading somewhere that in 44-45 pretty much all tanks/assault guns were sent to Eastern Front. No idea where I read it.
- morleron1225
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RE: FITE MOD 2010
I did some nosing around on the 'Net last night and came up with a couple of sites that had overall production numbers but nothing regarding delivery locations. I suppose that some numbers could be derived from division histories so far as on-hand and replacement numbers are concerned. Just collecting all of those numbers would be a major project to say nothing of then figuring out how to determine which vehicles went to the Eastern Front. For instance, how do you handle deliveries to divisions that had been pulled out of Russia and sent to France to rehabilitate. Should any tanks that were delivered to that divison while in France be counted as East Front deliveries as that's where they were actually used? I'm thinking here of outfits such as Gross Deutschland, LSSAH, and others that were cycled to and from Western Europe several times during the course of the war. I think I'm going to get a headache just thinking about this one. [;)]
Free men do not ask permission to bear arms.
GnuPG public key available at: pgp.mit.edu
GnuPG public key available at: pgp.mit.edu
RE: FITE MOD 2010
One thing I've learned is to never think you'll get anything right in this theater. If you get it close enough you're doing great. [;)]