Best IJN ASW assets?

[Misconduct]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

how many people won money figuring this thread would be hijacked almost instantaneously into an IJN ASW is overpowered rant?

I won a new pair of briefs, does that count? I played both sides of the board and see no evidence of overpowering, one can conclude I must simply be stupid to not see it.

[frank1970]

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Good to know more of the math, JWE. For my current game I suspected something along those lines re the ratings, so I edged the Type 2 DC down a bit on Accuracy, to an 8. I probably should have toned down the E's launcher count instead. Next time I will, and leave the DDs' Type 2s alone.

You probably would like, as much as any of us, to get into the sensor code and re-model it to make it the huge game-changer it really was and is. I know, from forums for past sub games by Sonalysts, that sonar modeling is a math Everest, and radar not much different. If ever there's a WITP2 I hope that can be funded in the design specs.

Thanks for the knowledge.

To add a bit more to the debate: according to the "US Submarine Design" series, USN fleet boats were ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE quieter than I-boats, and at least an order of magnitude quieter than the quietest U-boats... (i didn't see comparisons to British boats...)

This alone gave the USN a tremendous advantage in sub warfare (including sub vs sub, i would think).

As this fact isn't widely appreciated, i am pretty sure it is not in the WITP game design.

Could you please add the weblink?
I can hardly imagine, that a XXI sub should be so much worse than a Balao etc.

[herwin]

ORIGINAL: Frank

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Good to know more of the math, JWE. For my current game I suspected something along those lines re the ratings, so I edged the Type 2 DC down a bit on Accuracy, to an 8. I probably should have toned down the E's launcher count instead. Next time I will, and leave the DDs' Type 2s alone.

You probably would like, as much as any of us, to get into the sensor code and re-model it to make it the huge game-changer it really was and is. I know, from forums for past sub games by Sonalysts, that sonar modeling is a math Everest, and radar not much different. If ever there's a WITP2 I hope that can be funded in the design specs.

Thanks for the knowledge.

To add a bit more to the debate: according to the "US Submarine Design" series, USN fleet boats were ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE quieter than I-boats, and at least an order of magnitude quieter than the quietest U-boats... (i didn't see comparisons to British boats...)

This alone gave the USN a tremendous advantage in sub warfare (including sub vs sub, i would think).

As this fact isn't widely appreciated, i am pretty sure it is not in the WITP game design.

Could you please add the weblink?
I can hardly imagine, that a XXI sub should be so much worse than a Balao etc.

A lot of the noise is in the design details (and the training of the crew). If you put a lot of men into a U- or I-boat, you don't have as much room to isolate the machinery, and you have a high probability of someone wedging their toolkit between some machinery and the hull to store it out of the way.

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: Misconduct

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

how many people won money figuring this thread would be hijacked almost instantaneously into an IJN ASW is overpowered rant?

I won a new pair of briefs, does that count? I played both sides of the board and see no evidence of overpowering, one can conclude I must simply be stupid to not see it.

Given how well the Allied AI subs are doing within the first 3 months of my current game, one could argue that they are overpowered...note I said AI. Being that I play on the hardest level, I'm not at all surprised that the AI is more agressive and more successful than historical, because it is the AI with the hard level bonuses...so over-powered...I think not.

And for that matter, I expect that an Allied player 1) knows his torpedoes suck 2) know the Dutch, British and S-Boats don't suck and 3) know I will be agressively hunting subs will do what is smart and use the working boats in areas where I have less ASW capability and not suffer the losses the AI would, or that was historically possible.

Conversely an Allied player that knows 1) I am aggressively hunting subs 2) his torpedoes suck and 3) his older/less capable boats are the only ones that can hit anything at first and still sends his good boats into Japanese home waters....well he gets what he deserves.

This is the reason I play with some house rules that state how many air groups of what type can be set on ASW...it limits me just as much as my opponent, and keeps it somewhat sane, with out completely crippling either of us.

[frank1970]

ORIGINAL: herwin

ORIGINAL: Frank

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso


To add a bit more to the debate: according to the "US Submarine Design" series, USN fleet boats were ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE quieter than I-boats, and at least an order of magnitude quieter than the quietest U-boats... (i didn't see comparisons to British boats...)

This alone gave the USN a tremendous advantage in sub warfare (including sub vs sub, i would think).

As this fact isn't widely appreciated, i am pretty sure it is not in the WITP game design.

Could you please add the weblink?
I can hardly imagine, that a XXI sub should be so much worse than a Balao etc.

A lot of the noise is in the design details (and the training of the crew). If you put a lot of men into a U- or I-boat, you don't have as much room to isolate the machinery, and you have a high probability of someone wedging their toolkit between some machinery and the hull to store it out of the way.

Sorry, but I am quite sure, that the German Navy was more than capable to train her crews. I know from my great uncle, that the Uboat he was on trained a very long time in the Baltic before they went for the atlantic.

[mariandavid]

I rather like the idea of an effective IJN ASW capability late in the war. Make the following quite valid assumptions - the IJN finally prioritises ASW (Willmott's new book gives much detail on this), while at the same time a more astute player/AI has ensured that the escorts are being trained and not thrown away in useless supply runs from 1943 on; the introduction of both radar-equipped and 'light swamping' aircraft forces the USN to shift to submerged attack [[comment - don't erupt into national pride - which they were not very good at, being trained at log, not periscope shooting]] coupled with improved (or invented!) asdic and bearing changing hydrophones etc. All this converts into good ASW results - note that USN subs though highly effective were large and clumsy targets in certain conditions - fast submerge but large lateral asdic targets.