"Battle for Moscow 1941-1943"

[briantopp]

Excellent suggestion on the heavy art.

Luftwaffe: they did get their butts kicked by about the middle of this scenario. But the loss ratios shouldn't be grossly disproportionate perhaps the units need a proficiency tweak on both sides.

I've implemented much of what you suggest in the prior post re PzIIIs and will post a new build shortly, after a couple more playtest runs.

So how is it working out so far? Did you take Moscow? Did you keep it?

[PRUSSIAN TOM]

I skipped ahead...using the new default settings this is QUITE a nice scenario (PO:Soviets). I think everyone wants to take Moscow by '41. This puppy is making me work for it. Kudos to whohever gave Elmer Tactical advice. It's not CFNA, but is is running a close second (I play it almost as much as CFNA). So far (4 games) Elmer has been one tough cookie. I would not envy anyone playing one of the persons who design scenarios in this one. Right now, The PO (with +1) is giving me hell, and keeping me honest.

Another Good Job. [&o]

[sPzAbt653]

Did you take Moscow?

I just reached Moscow a couple turns ago and last turn attacked into some of the urban hexes. 3rd Pz Grp is moving in from the north and 2nd Pz Grp is moving up from the south (off screen). I've been advancing slow so as to keep the units in good condition. Once the mud goes I think I can clear the area up to the stop line (already there in the north and south) and then set up a defense and some reserves, and then see what Elmer throws at me over the next 120 turns.

I'm not sure but maybe the German 16th Army historically couldn't advance east with the open northern flank/map edge. I'm not sure if the 18th Army could have covered that flank (from Staraya Russa to the stop line). It may give the Axis an advantage to be able to advance without garrisoning that area. If I get a chance to play again, maybe I will impose a restriction on myself by leaving some garrison units up there and see how it plays out.

[briantopp]

Here is the latest build of this scenario -- quite a number of tweaks informed by the discussions above and more playtesting.

[briantopp]

A good point about 16th army (depending on what else was happening to the north) remembering that isn't all of 16th army. A tweak to the "Stop line" could address it maybe.

[sPzAbt653]

... that isn't all of 16th army.

Good enough, I knew you had it thought out but it was something that made me wonder so I had to mention it. Thanks.

[briantopp]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

... that isn't all of 16th army.

Good enough, I knew you had it thought out but it was something that made me wonder so I had to mention it. Thanks.

I hadn't thought it out too too much I confess -- basically following the reference game which puts that bit of 16th army in play. but you're raising a real issue of realism here -- clearly the farther the 16th army gets from the lake the more unlikely the deployment becomes. Going to have to do something about it. Maybe a "16th army stop line?"

[BigDuke66]

Looking at the map from 6th December 1941 indeed something has to be done as it took a lot to cover this flank and the 16. Armee was still back at the the lakes.
Look here I hope that helps:
http://www.w7l1p4dc2.homepage.t-online. ... 2.1941.jpg

[Silvanski]

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

Looking at the map from 6th December 1941 ...
Isn't too big is it?

Awesome map! Where does that come from?

[BigDuke66]

It's this book:
http://www.amazon.de/Zweite-Weltkrieg-K ... 509&sr=1-5

Bought if over Ebay together with the Case White and Weserübung volumes saving 76 euros, and because the Balkan/Greek volume was the most expensive on Ebay(what surprised me) and I didn't get it I took the chance and bought it together with the Case Yellow/Red volume directly on Amazon, I just waited too long to miss the chance to get them you see them wer seldom on Ebay or Amazon I think the last time was maybe 1-2 years ago.

But guess what my bank account says to this Jihad style shopping tour. .

[briantopp]

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

Looking at the map from 6th December 1941 indeed something has to be done as it took a lot to cover this flank and the 16. Armee was still back at the the lakes.
Look here I hope that helps:

Isn't too big is it?

Is this the same map found here?

http://www.archiv-oberaussem.com/wiki_a ... arten.html

[briantopp]

So this build should address this issue with the 16th army. I moved the Axis stop line to a more reasonable position vis-a-vis AGN and I tweaked Soviet orders to give the Axis a good motive to defend the northern part of their line properly.

[Oberst_Klink]

Checked it with this one I posted, seems like 1st week of December 1941.

Klink

[BigDuke66]

I think those could be a copy of the original maps that formed the base for the redrawn maps in the book, as you see it's already heavily used. The maps from the book only cover the basic terrain features like road, rail, swamp, city, etc. but that gives a much better overview.
The base for the book are maps from the Bundesarchiv/Militärarchiv.
But a 1:1 copy from those "real" maps would be great but somehow I doubt to get my hands on them.

[Oberst_Klink]

Imperial War Museum or, well, ja. Das Bundesarchiv in Freiburg oder die MGFA in Koblenz Polarenper and I posted some of the resource links already. The most links I found here: http://www.frank-busse.de/verweise/geschichte.php

Gruss,

Klink, Oberst
STALAG 13

[1_Lzard]

ORIGINAL: briantopp
Here is the latest build of this scenario -- quite a number of tweaks informed by the discussions above and more playtesting.

Brian, are you planning a new 'readme' for this scenario? I see some of the 'numbers' have changed from the 1.37 version, eh?

[BigDuke66]

@Oberst_Klink
Interesting collection, do you know if one could get copies out of these official sources(Freiburg/Koblenz)?

[briantopp]

Yep I need to rewrite all the descriptions etc.

[1_Lzard]

ORIGINAL: briantopp
Yep I need to rewrite all the descriptions etc.

Good deal! [;)]

[samba_liten]

It is possible to get copies from the German archives, but i do not know where the maps are stored, so when i emailed them i just got a list of research assistants to help me locate them for reply. It was too expensive for me to employ someone just to feed my hobby!

You can also get copies from the archives in America, which might end up being cheaper.