Get rid of fuel

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: J HG T

Me neither. Also, I ALWAYS add several extra fuel-tanks to EVERY design, depending on tech, distances and purpose of the ship. This solves almost all fuel-related problems for me.

That and having adequate energy collectors for idle times. You have to put forth some effort in the game.

[cmdrnarrain]

"Me neither. Also, I ALWAYS add several extra fuel-tanks to EVERY design, depending on tech, distances and purpose of the ship. This solves almost all fuel-related problems for me.

That and having adequate energy collectors for idle times. You have to put forth some effort in the game."  

Isn't that the point?!?  I don't want to mircomanage fuel e.g. automatically putting extra fuel cells, collectors on every ship.
 
[font="times new roman"]If the games requires you to automatically do something to resolve an issue to make it playable then the issue probably needs to be fixed. [/font]
 
Right now the first thing I do is redesign my starting exploration ships to be able to explore the whole map.  I don't have to mircomanage my exploration ships, but what is the point of fuel for them?  

[PDiFolco]

I don't like much the fuel system ! Not that I have something against it on principles, but I think that it 's something half-done.
I mean, ok, it's fine to simulate fuel and the need to refill it, but normally it'll be at least as important to have the crew on leave, make maintenance at bases, and resupply food, water, and weapons, than fuel !
Now we have ships able to to stay in space for years with only  need to refuel, eventually from RS ships, which give them ridiculous long range, and have this fuel aspect to micromanage, but the rest is absent...As mm everything would be a pita, I'd rather go with abstract resupply of everything via "range circles" .

[WoodMan]

When they stop at bases to refuel a few days go by, I always assume this is where they get food/water/crew from.

[BigWolfChris]

ORIGINAL: cmdrnarrain
Isn't that the point?!?  I don't want to mircomanage fuel e.g. automatically putting extra fuel cells, collectors on every ship.

[font="times new roman"]If the games requires you to automatically do something to resolve an issue to make it playable then the issue probably needs to be fixed. [/font]

Ok, but surely, by that logic we should also remove defences too? Since we have to micromanage weapon loadouts to get through tougher defences

[cmdrnarrain]

Twisting the point doesn't make for a sound agrument.

[EisenHammer]

Wouldn't your ship stop moving when it runs out of fuel? How about when your ships run out of fuel it can't move anymore, that would be more realistic. Now you have to do some real serious planning to get something done.

My real problem with DW is that it needs some kind of a ship range or a map that's twice as big as it is now.
Right now its just too easy to move across the galaxy at the start of the game.

[BigWolfChris]

ORIGINAL: cmdrnarrain

Twisting the point doesn't make for a sound agrument.

I was attempting to understand your logic

[caerr]

ORIGINAL: EisenHammer
My real problem with DW is that it needs some kind of a ship range or a map that's twice as big as it is now.
Right now its just too easy to move across the galaxy at the start of the game.

The easiest solution as far as I know would be customizable galaxy size at startup. You can customize star amount but the map size seems to stays the same. I'm not really bothered by fuel ranges (or fuel in general, I think it's fine) but I'd like to play a map where traveling between clusters takes a bit more time, and strategically placed supply stations come into greater importance.

I can sorta do that if play a small galaxy, and to counter the low number of stars I can make more of them habitable.

[Queeg]

ORIGINAL: cmdrnarrain

I have no idea what half of you are talking about as it has no relationship to my original post.   

I think maybe some of us were confused by the "get rid of fuel" thing.

I recall there being a setting somewhere (in Policies perhaps?) where you can set the level at which ships start worrying about fuel. I think the default is 50%. You might try reducing it.

[LoBaron]

ORIGINAL: cmdrnarrain

[font="times new roman"]I have no idea what half of you are talking about as it has no relationship to my original post.   [/font]
[font="times new roman"][/font] 
[font="times new roman"][font="times new roman"]I have no problem with fuel in the economy.  I haven't had a problem with the automated part of my fuel management, just the micromanagement of fuel on manual controlled ships.  To help clear the air; below are some situations which annoy the hell out of me,[/font][/font]
[font="times new roman"][/font] 
[font="times new roman"][font="times new roman"]1.  Assign a warship to guard a debris field.   Enemy construction ship jumps in... assign warship to attack.  Second construction ship jumps in.  Warship destroys first construction ship and then jumps to refuel with plenty of fuel still on board to have destroyed the second constructor. [/font][/font]
[font="times new roman"][font="times new roman"][/font][/font] 
[font="times new roman"][font="times new roman"][font="times new roman"]2.  Assign warship to kill a kraken swarm.  Warship jumps in kills one and then jumps out to refuel.[/font][/font][/font]
[font="times new roman"][font="times new roman"][/font][/font] 
[font="times new roman"][font="times new roman"]3. Assign to a constructor to jump into a system which I don't have any other ships in and the Ancient Guardian has built several bases to see what is available.  The constructor jumps in and then immediately jumps out to refuel.[/font][/font]
[font="times new roman"][/font] 
[font="times new roman"][font="times new roman"][font="times new roman"]etc, etc.[/font][/font][/font]
[font="times new roman"][font="times new roman"][/font][/font] 
[font="times new roman"]I won't even touch the problems with trying to have a fleet with multiple ship class as it is almost impossible to run. [/font]
[font="times new roman"][/font] 
[font="times new roman"]My solution to this micromanagement pain in the ass is to have fuel bubbles.   If you are in the bubble you have fuel period and anything outside of the bubble you don't have to worry about because you can't travel to.  Think MO2's range.  I really think it would help the AI out by forcing it to concentrate and prevent you from completing the original storyline in only a few years.  It would also prevent you from grabbing all of the choice spots early and require you to build supply lines e.g. remember outposts? [/font]

I understood you perfectly well, thats exactly why I said you should not criticise a feature before you understand it.

Perhaps I was not clear enough on the implications of your proposal which you seem to be missing:

Fuel IS a part of the economic system, theres no "I can live with fuel, but only in the economy" option because it only
gets consumed by devices with a reactor.
What makes it interesting and one of the best features, is that the consumption is as often player driven as AI driven, so does not increase with a
steady pace like most other raw materials, but gets used with a large gulp and you have to enable your economy to
compensate/prepare for it.
Thats part of the fun. And part of the planning ahead.

The whole ship design is centered on reactors consuming fuel to produce energy. Without that a major part of the ship design would
lose its basic concept which is a mission related balance between fuel capacity and fuel consumption, and based on that, energy
generation and its distribution to the ships´systems.

Half of the research tree is centered on providing better means of fuel storage, more efficient use of fuel relative to energy output and
alternative means of providing energy, or more efficient use of that energy.

So: By removing fuel from its current purpose you would not only adress your "issue" but wreck part of the economy, research, and ship design
as they are intended as a game concept.

I thought that was obvious but seems I was wrong. [;)]


As for the rest of your post, you seem to be a micromanager. I understand that well because usually I am too.
But in this game micromanagement down to a certain level is simply the wrong approach.

Every single point you make is either related to micromanaging something you should not - or don´t have to, failing to provide
logistics for the operations you deem neccesary, using ship designs on missions they were not designed for, or operating
at ranges from your bases which are not suited for you current technology level for extended time periods.

[cmdrnarrain]

Actually, as has been posted several times fuel really isn't a problem in the economy for just about all of the players.
 
I disagree with just about everything you just said,
 
1. Fuel storage isn't a really problem as the addition of acouple of tanks allows you to travel the entire map
2. Better reactors is for more power to shoot those high end guns
 
Not having to refuel wouldn't wreck anything but your agrument.
 
I don't know but killing kraken swarms around a debris field seems like something I need to mircomanage.  Also chasing away other construstors from debris field is the main reason for me to start a war.

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: cmdrnarrain

Twisting the point doesn't make for a sound agrument.

There isn't a sound argument to begin with.

I'm sorry but... "I find this aspect of the game annoying and demand it be removed" is not a sound argument. I find space monsters to be totally unbelievable and irritating, yet I'm not in here demanding that Elliot remove that aspect of the game...some people completely enjoy fighting the monsters, just like I completely enjoy the fuel system and the additional challenges it presents.

You can not please everyone all the time, it is statistically impossible.

[Pipewrench]

cmdrnarrain

with your first point,

constructors are not military ships otherwise they would start wars. You might of attacked one but unless you directly tell your military to attack it will not. When at war all bets are off.

to your second point, the warship looks at odds and if it feels it is going to lose, and i mean bad, it retreats.Pirates excluded, unless of course it was low on fuel?.

3rd point, so you want your constructor to build in another empires system and ruin relations? I think that is WAD.

[LoBaron]

ORIGINAL: cmdrnarrain
I disagree with just about everything you just said,

A fact that thankfully stands a rather low chance to impact any patch developement process, so I am pretty sure can live with it. [;)]

[cmdrnarrain]

 
I make no such demands on fuel.  It is a lot less annoying then it has been in the past, but still annoying.  I'm just pointing out a fact.
 
[font="times new roman"]If I were to make a demand it would be to stop having my empire rebel every time I decide to blow-up a planet or nuke one into the dark ages.  That is a game stopper, fuel is just annoying, but I think supply bubbles would have a host of additional benefits, especially in concentrating the AI in a smaller area instead building empires which are indefensible.[/font]
[font="times new roman"][/font] 
[font="times new roman"]You can turn space monsters off.  Those that remain, well... just think of them as bio-organic ships left to defend relics of past empires instead of as "space monsters".  Oops, I slipped into same sad agruments most of you had made why the current fuel system is so great.  I apologize.  [/font]
 
Pipewrench - ?WAD? sorry my net lingo is at an all time low.  
 
[font="times new roman"]Note: my snotty comments are solely directed at my fellow posters,  It lightens my day and not at the developers of this great game.  I just find it annoying when my ships don't do what I ask them to do and I believe it is because of the fuel system.  [/font]

[Tacit_Exit]

Fuel is cool.

That is all.

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: cmdrnarrain

 
I make no such demands on fuel.  It is a lot less annoying then it has been in the past, but still annoying.  I'm just pointing out a fact.

[font="times new roman"]If I were to make a demand it would be to stop having my empire rebel every time I decide to blow-up a planet or nuke one into the dark ages.  That is a game stopper, fuel is just annoying, but I think supply bubbles would have a host of additional benefits, especially in concentrating the AI in a smaller area instead building empires which are indefensible.[/font]
[font="times new roman"][/font] 
[font="times new roman"]You can turn space monsters off.  Those that remain, well... just think of them as bio-organic ships left to defend relics of past empires instead of as "space monsters".  Oops, I slipped into same sad agruments most of you had made why the current fuel system is so great.  I apologize.  [/font]

Pipewrench - ?WAD? sorry my net lingo is at an all time low.  

[font="times new roman"]Note: my snotty comments are solely directed at my fellow posters,  It lightens my day and not at the developers of this great game.  I just find it annoying when my ships don't do what I ask them to do and I believe it is because of the fuel system.  [/font]

So, your just a garden variety troll...nice. [8|]

[cmdrnarrain]

Acctually, I return snork for snork.  Name calling is trolling.  I don't believe I have called anyone names.  Did you?

[Lord_Astraios]

You mean the Norse Troll or the Internet Troll???

Back to topic...  LEts propose this,  and let the developers decide,  at start where the sliders are at,  have a slider in which it says:
1 - None,  NO fuel needed
2 - Easy, ships only use 50% less fuel than normal. Hybrid ships.
3 - Normal,  Standard as we all play it now.
4 - Fuel Hogger,  ships MPG is 3 miles per gallon,  your polluting the galaxy!

Or ,  i havent played the whole game appart from seeing all the galaxy already in my running game, but i havent researched everything so i dont know if this tech is there,  but get a last level tech to be a reactor that uses a lot less fuel.