AE Grandmaster

[Cuttlefish]

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

Previously though I also point out that in order to be considered in the top flight he would have to, IMO, play someone other than AndyMac and play as the Allies so that his innate strategic analysis skills and ability to turn that analysis into practical plans in service of his overall goal would be clearly demonstrated.

While Pzb has never played the Allies as far as I know, I will point out that AndyMac was actually Pzb's fourth opponent in his classic WITP game. Pzb not only beat the first three opponents decisively, he broke their will to fight. AndyMac took over somewhere around the midpoint of the war, if I remember correctly.

[John 3rd]

Well said Nemo.

What do you think of some sort of catagory for the Modders/Back Scenes contributors tot he game? Just as the 1st and 2nd Tier players are important to listen to and the Sensei are there explaining and helping, I think you have something for those who don't necessarily play a lot but contribute mightily behind the scenes. An example of this would be the Tracker Guys. How many of us could do what we do without Tracker and their willingness to help?

Thoughts?

[dr.hal]

I thought we got rid of nobility as a result of the revolutionary war!

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

I thought we got rid of nobility as a result of the revolutionary war!

Nah, they just moved to Hollywood.[:)]

Alfred

[Andy Mac]

I don't normally get involved in these threads but as someone who has taken 6 WITP games to 45 and 2 to 46 PBEM and have 3 x AE games going plus at least 10 other PBEM's that made it to 43 before generally my opponents quit.

I think I have a fair read on who is a good player.

PZB is the best I have played. He has made me look ordinary in this game we have going now and I may not be the best allied player but I aint that bad - but no one makes me cover rear areas as carefully and scan sig int as carefully deep raids, KB turning up at the wrong place etc etc.

Its in his use of surface assets that he is especially good - sometimes he is so aggressive it costs him but I would describe him like a Kendo master

p.s. Other opponents of mine were good as well

Pauk springs to mind for understanding the strategy and being a carefull player not wasting his assets
Steve Sanchez was good as well as was Sprior (twice) and Enforcer/Dennis (Enforcer master of the deep raid), Gilles, Sveint, String for the audacious attack

I also have a good game going v Paul but its to early to tell although is tearing me apart in China

There were other opponents as well that never got out of 42.

Re Nemo my main regret was that I couldnt cope with the different type of game so ended it before we really got started - would have loved to play him seriously but I guess main problem was down deep I'm a quasi historical kind of guy - 30 turns v Nemo was a lot of fun though !!!!

[AW1Steve]

Deleted

[Nemo121]

John3rd,
Well it all depends what the goal is... Is this an attempt to recognise everyone who has contributed to CM or, as was initially stated, an attempt to point out individuals who are worth listening to in terms of learning the game and strategy? If it is the latter then there is no point in highlighting those who have contributed to AE's development or mods etc here --- Starting another thread to do so might be a good idea though. My understanding was the aim of the thread was the latter, not the former.

I think that for this to have any value to newbies there needs to be discipline to keep it focused and prevent it becoming a "Let's nominate everyone who is a known character on the forums, surely they've all done or said something useful or important once." Sure there's a time and place for such backslapping BUT if we're trying to single out perhaps a dozen people that newbies can remember and go, "If this guy answers a question of mine then I should probably listen since the community as a whole says he should be listened to " then we need to:
a) limit our nomination to either good players or good teachers ( or both ) and
b) limit the number of people we list so that any list we come up with has meaning. If, out of 100 frequent posters we end up with 30 people nominated then the resulting list won't have any usefulness.

Just because someone isn't on the list doesn't mean they aren't a good player or don't know the game. However I think a focused, short list would be useful to newbies. I initially ignored this thread for a time because I figured it'd go down the route of just nominating people whom others had played as a sort of "My opponent's a grand fellow" thing. It has, to a large extent, avoided that and thus I think it may have the possibility of actually being a useful contribution to the community for newbies. Hence I'm posting now. Of course people are free to disagree and decide on some other course. I'm just saying what I think may be useful for newbies from my experience on this and other fora and what I understand of the dynamics of teaching.

If we simply apply it to everyone then we lose all ability to distinguish who is worth listening to for newbies - which was the original goal of the thread.


As to tracker: I think it is a great tool but I also think it leads people to over-analyse the minutiae of the game at the expense of their fingerspitzengefeuhl. I have liked tracker but I don't actually use it and I think that because I don't use it I'm forced to adopt plans which are operationally and tactically quite simple, albeit fitting into a relatively complex strategic schema. I think it is a great tool but I think people's use of it can lead them to not develop skills which are actually more crucial strategically and long-term in the game. As with everything you need to use it as a tool to aid play without actually letting it mask weaknesses which you then don't correct - chief amongst which is over-complication. Since it presents so much data and helps one crunch that data I think that that can lead to the belief that all that data is necessary. With that said the actual HI usage page is, when playing as Japan, incredibly useful.I've frequently asked Damian to run that for me so I can figure out just what I'm using where.


Cuttlefish, AndyMac,
Aye, your points are well taken. By my criteria he wouldn't merit a nomination to the first tier quite yet. He'd merit a nomination to the second. You, of course, are both welcome to disagree and nominate him to the first tier should you so wish. That's one reason why no one person should decide who goes where. I think he would qualify as a grandmaster but, personally, I don't think he has proven to be of the first tier yet - I happen to think only two individuals on the forum have any call to being in the first tier so saying he isn't, yet, IMO one of those two but IS in the top 8 is hardly a condemnation.

Your opinions differ, which is fine, so feel free to nominate him to the top tier if you wish.

[John 3rd]

Thanks Nemo. I concur with that. My thinking was on how new players get 'sent' in directions such as "Watch His Play" or "Check with ___ before you you do this" or "If you need help with the Economy ask ______." I think one can draw up a solid list of 1st and 2nd Tier Playders as well as Sensei pretty easily and serve to help new players out. This is the reason I've been involved with the Thread. We are getting new players all the time and we've lost a lot of our old grognards who have been here since the beginning. New players need people to talk to. Heck--OLDER players need someone to talk to! [:D]

[Nemo121]

I think the Grandmaster group has been well enough nominated to be filled. Anyone want to volunteer to tabulate the nominations thus far? I could do it but since I've been nominated it would be a bit unseemly to do so.

The Sensei group could probably do with commencing nominations now, unless someone has an objection.
I suggest that the criteria be:
1. Demonstrated in-game ability and/or demonstrated knowledge of game mechanics and/or demonstrated knowledge of how game rules interact to produce in-game outcomes PLUS
2. An ability to explain that to players PLUS
3. A willingness to provide that information to all who reasonably ask for explanations ( with exceptions for not being omniscient and seeing every post obviously ). No point highlighting someone as a "go to person" if they mightn't answer the newbies.

Under those three criteria I would nominate:
1. Alfred, 2. LoBaron, 3. Canoerebel, 4 Sardaukar.

I think Alfred answers a lot of questions very well. I think LoBaron has done a major service in explain air mechanics and co-ordination etc and Canoerebel has a history of explaining things well also. Lastly I think Sardaukar's Newbie AAR is a very good idea and a good innovation.

I'd be happy to tabulate nominations for Sensei unless someone objects.

[John 3rd]

I would add a 4th point to your criteria. The ability to teach in such a way as to engender questioning and learning. There needs to be an ability to actual teach without alienating. My .02...

I'd nominate Michael (NY GIants59). He is gifted at being able to explain things in such a way as make them so understandable without a person feeling like a total and complete idiot. Several players (not to mention myself) have been forwarded by me to him when it comes down to it.

[Cribtop]

+1 on Michael a/k/a nygiants59. He helped me out tremendously.

[John 3rd]

Canoerebel as a player or Sensei? I learn more towards Sensai.

[PzB74]

It was with some concern I came over this threat [;)]
First of all, thanks to all of you that honor me with your nominations - I'm not worthy [&o]

As mentioned, because of lack of hours in the day I'm not the omnipresent Guru on this forum like Mogami used to be.
I still think if any, Mogami is the true Grandad Grandmaster of WitP!

Remember I played PacWar (Pacific War) with Mogami eons ago, he was always around and answered questions and comments.
I think this kind of capacity should be appreciated more than a players win - loss ratio on the battlefields of the South Pacific.

So many great players in this forum but sometimes I do feel that AndyMac is getting an unfair hearing; having played PacWar - UV - WitP and AE from the Jap side for a decade
it's not easy for Andy to fight a Scen 2 game against me and a strengthened Jap Empire. Andy is a master of the land battles as well as with his LBA. I like to play with my ships, so there we have it!-)

PS! I do have played Allied side LoBaron.
Played it as much as Jap side in UV but since a grand campaign takes forever I had to pick a "main" side and ended up with Japan as I like the challenge.
The Allied campaigns I played in WitP ended prematurely as my opponents went to Afghanistan and Iraq...real war called.

[Nemo121]

John,

I dion't see why someone cannot be both. In fact I think it is quite likely that several people would be represented on both lists.

As to adding the fourth criteria. I wouldn't be in favour of that for a very simple reason. I think it would exclude people who are motivated to teach and have been found to be helpful in explaining things to others but who might pitch their explanations at a particular level.

E.g. Someone who pitches their explanations at a newbie level - Sardaukar for example - does provide a very useful service and idoes, IMO, warrant a nomination as Sensei. On the other hand his explanations will be of little use to more advanced players.

The situation is even worse when you are talking about someone pitching explanations of advanced concepts. This isn't a paid lecturing job so some element of pitching the points made at a particular level and accepting that it may be a year or two of play before others have enough basic and intermediate knowledge to begin really using those points in-game must, IMO, be accepted. I don't buy into the thing that all lessons can appeal equally to all levels of students at all times. I think that's just far too PC and unrealistic. Sure you have to bring weaker students along but at some point you have to recognise that to understand certain points you need to understand certain fundamentals and thus some "streaming" is important. If that wasn't the case then you'd just be able to lump all 4 years of a degree course in together and let them go to whatever lectures they wanted whenever they wanted so long as they went to them all in the four years. That, obviously, isn't feasible or even commonsensical.

So, I think that fourth criteria is not a great idea on the basis that it would create what I can only assume is this unintended consequence.


PzB,
Aye, I think that when one player is very good at certain things it often serves to make the other's play look "bad" when, really, that is merely a reflection of how good the other player's play is. Of course the converse can also occur. I think the former is happening in your game vs AndyMac while the latter is, possibly, happening in Greyjoy's game.

[Andy Mac]

Oh I made a few corkers of strategic mistakes as well but I have nothing if not tenacity to come back !!!!.

'buck fever' off of DEI being one and the flyby of Line Islands being the 2nd that spring to mind.

I would surmise that very few players would have seen a surprise invasion by 4+ allied divs in mid 43 backed by the full USN that captures a working airbase on day 1 and is entrenched ashore as an opportunity to spank the allies........

Ignore my mistakes in that campaign and just think about the audacity of a counter invasion in the teeth of what I had brough for that campaign. The willingness to roll the dice when its warranted is the key - yes I had some bad luck but very few Japanese players would have played that as aggressively most would have pulled back and tried to shorten their lines.

Andy

[Cap Mandrake]

I propose some type of handicapping system as one would for horse racing or yacht racing.

For eg., how about "Best AE Grandmaster without having read the manual"


or maybe

"Most Improved"

[Canoerebel]

And Miss Congeniality?

[John 3rd]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

And Miss Congeniality?

Should we nominate our wives for that?

[Canoerebel]

I was gonna nominate Paul Miller....

[:'(]

[Canoerebel]

On second thought, please don't allow me to hijack what can be a useful thread. I apologize and hope the rest of you guys can refrain from the temptation to participate in the hijacking.