Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v smokindave(Sov). 1.05 beta

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

This business with the tank breakdowns eventually catches up with the Sovs, btw.

In 1943 it is entirely possible to lose 1000+ AFVs a turn as the Soviet, due in large part to these breakdowns. Yes, 1000 tanks a turn. When you're moving around 30 odd mobile corps, it adds up.

Perhaps, though when I played Soviets, I was profligate with my tanks, and never felt I was short. When you build or get leased 600 a turn, you can afford alot of losses.

PELTON: Thanks; he has definitely taken lots of losses. When the Red Army is under 4 mil men, that's serious trouble. Add in the Axis Allied troops in Russia, and I outnumber him right now. My Tank losses are severe, though. This is why I am really tapping the breaks on them.

Anyway, back to the war.....

Turn 11

MOre Robinsky: The Reds are in full flight now along most areas of the front. He has suffered terrible losses for sure, though my Panzers are pretty cooked. Now, he is giving up chunks of territory.

This turn, I did do some Panzer moves, though I parked 2 Panzer Corps again. I couldn't help but attack toward the Donbas and Tula, targets that are calling me to do some damage.

The Infantry spent another turn mostly marching, and we only pocketed 3 units. So, this strategy IS limiting Red Army losses for him, but at some point he has to turn around and fight. I think that point is coming around Tula.

AGN: I am a little stuck up here. We have cleared everything up to the Volkhov and Neva lines, but those are brick walls of units. The Neva line in particular is very strong, and not sure I can crack it. We'll find out.

AGC: PZ Gp 3 is pretty spent, but a turn of rest did them some good, as our Mot Divs were up to strength. We surrounded 3 units (as a bonus though 2 are Cavalry), so another turn of light POW haul.

AGS: Most of Pz Gp2 is parked this turn west of Kursk; we are building up for a push on Vornoezh, where I would really like to kill the Sturmovik factories.

B-G made a mistake around the Donbas; he didn't garrison 2 cities with 3 Arm each.

I destroyed 11 Armaments this turn; 2 in Bryansk, and 9 around the Donbas. He didn't have to lose at least 6 of those around the Donbas. B-G hasn't made too many mistakes, but he made one there (and leaving Kursk open last turn)

I learned that lesson the hard way myself: Always leave a Russian unit in every city.

[heliodorus04]

I'm very impressed with your performance on the speed, distance, and damage inflicted measures. I've not come close to this level of performance as Axis.

Also my favorite AAR title to date.

[Peltonx]

By this time I am thinking he should be fighting forward and not running.

This will cost him arm pts.

Fighting forward should not be done until after turn 10ish as Russian player. It cost him allott of extra troops (400,000), which means he is very weak by turn 10-13 the key turns for German player.

Bad moves by Russian player during turns 1-5 really come back to haunt them 10-13. I beleive you can basicly put the game away early. You will atleast have a good chance at a very strong 42 summer offensive. If he screws up during that hes really toast.

Pelton

[janh]

In many aspects this game is quite similar to the original progress, not only if looking at the fighting around Leningrad or the break into the Crimean peninsula.  B-G appears to fight it out with a quite similar strategy, although the situation at Leningrad and near Moscow seems already to have reached a worse state than historically.  Perhaps the high-water mark is going to be even further East, but the situation is so fluid at them moment, anything seems possible. 
I wouldn't be too worried about the losses the Soviets have taken so far -- they are still pretty strong, and if I recall correctly, in November 1941 the Russians had at some point fewer troops in the field than the Germans (without allies), and yet within weeks they stopped the Germans with the help of the weather, and did recover to reasonable numbers in summer 42.
Highly interesting AAR, not only for the sake of watching the game balance between two very advanced players.  Will be extremely interesting to see how the Soviet winter offensive will turn out, and the German 42 summer one, if it appears sensible to try that long shot rather than preserving forces for the later defense.

[Klydon]

The Leningrad area is interesting from the standpoint that you will likely have to use 4 stacks of infantry (attack and then rotate in fresh units and try attacking a weaken defender again) and you just don't have that available along with watching the river and having AGN units south of Lake Ilmen.

The bad part for you is you can likely hold here, but when that river freezes in the winter, you can bet the Russians will be coming hard.

Being in control of two of the ports that feed Leningrad, I wonder about trying to bomb out the last port as well to cut the supply.

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: Klydon

Being in control of two of the ports that feed Leningrad, I wonder about trying to bomb out the last port as well to cut the supply.

I was thinking this as well....anyone ever try it? Does it impact the units in Leningrad?

[heliodorus04]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

ORIGINAL: Klydon

Being in control of two of the ports that feed Leningrad, I wonder about trying to bomb out the last port as well to cut the supply.

I was thinking this as well....anyone ever try it? Does it impact the units in Leningrad?

Good idea, but not one I've tried.

If you guys are not familiar with Pelton's "Leningrad Protocol" regarding SUs, let him or I know and I will discuss it.

Briefly, if you bring half the pioneer SUs in the entire Wehrmacht to Leningrad, plus all the Stugs and 6-8 of the "Heavy" artillery SUs into 18th Army, you can really create a Schwerpunkt that wins every fight it starts.

I did it and I was beating CV 25-35 stacks in level 3 forts with 1 deliberate attack, first try. The trick was to have 2 pioneers and 1 stug SU in each infantry division, along with heavy artillery at both the Corps and Army level (Army HQs have to be close for this).

Each turn, my fighters would try to back off the line 1 hex, and refit, while non-fighters would hold the hexes they occupied.

[PeeDeeAitch]

In my first game against JAMIAM I bombed ports and isolated Leningrad. Though my choice was Osinovets as the airbases for CAP was further away. I was able to take the City by the end of mud.

Now, in 1.05, the losses from CAP will be far higher, but it is still doable. However, I suspect as a smart player BG will have an airbase inside of the Leningrad pocket and should be able to get bridgehead supply there - so have a lot of fighters in the region at least so the CAP losses are his as he tries to fly in supplies (or gives up and lets you bomb ports).

[von altair]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Because Armament points are dear; at game-start, I had a pool of 600,000 for Germany. That is now down to 179,000, and falling each turn, so I will run out shortly. I would rather keep Rifles in the line than artillery at this point. When production increases after winter, I'll turn Artillery back-on.

Krhm, may I ask how do you setup artillery only to 50% TOE? I know how to do it with whole division. Is there
some nasty shortcut to make it happen with every divisions at once or do you have to do it for every single piece?

[heliodorus04]

Krhm, may I ask how do you setup artillery only to 50% TOE? I know how to do it with whole division. Is there
some nasty shortcut to make it happen with every divisions at once or do you have to do it for every single piece?

Yes, there is a shortcut.

Give me a few minutes to open the game so I can take a screen shot, and I'll post it in the main forum (not war room) with some clever title, like Reducing TOEs in one fell swoop.

It's up.
tm.asp?m=2916289&mpage=1&key=&#2916300

[Balou]

Q-Ball,
Great AAR, as always.
Do I miss something looking at the Neva-line? Sov side: all this to deny activation of the Finns ? Ger side: what are your Pz Divs good for? Your low on Pzs and this is no Pz-country up there. Or do you still hope to link up with the Finns before mud? Any other reason to have 4th PzA up there ?

[MechFO]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

ORIGINAL: cherryfunk

I'm curious, why reduce artillery to 50% TOE?

Because Armament points are dear; at game-start, I had a pool of 600,000 for Germany. That is now down to 179,000, and falling each turn, so I will run out shortly. I would rather keep Rifles in the line than artillery at this point. When production increases after winter, I'll turn Artillery back-on.

This seems to be where your ARM points are going...

tm.asp?m=2916064

[Q-Ball]

Turn 12: 9/4/41

Sticking my Neck Out: B-G really took advantage of my exposed Panzer Spearheads this turn. I expected to have problems near Stalino, where I stretched to take-out some industry. But he also caused me trouble West of Tula, by cutting off most of Pz Gp 3.

B-G makes many many bombing runs on a unit before attacking, and sends lots of units on hasty attack first to cause disruption. Good tactics, that's how you do it as the Red Army.

General Situation: For the most part, B-G is either holding favorable defensive terrain, or retreating. As a result, the number of units I am pocketing has fallen off a cliff.

The last two turns, I have bagged a grand total of 2 units. This after taking over 150 Divisions the first 9 turns. I think B-G became seriously concerned about Red Army strength, as it briefly touched 3.5 mil. It's bounced back to 3.67 mil over the last couple turns.

My tank situation has not improved much; I have 1894. I slowed the rate of decline a bit by resting Panzers but these counterattacks are not helping.

The only units I am still killing are Fort Zones. B-G has really built alot; I have killed 57 so far. I don't know why he allows them to die rather than picking them up to save men and guns. When I played Soviets, I always disbanded them. (That was before these new fort rules though).

I have built 6 fort zones so far in prep for winter, and will accelerate as I get closer to my stop line.

AGN:

Not sure I will take Leningrad. We are giving it the ol' try. This turn, we did get enough over the Volkhov to clear that barrier, though swamps beckon to the East.

If I reach the Svir it will be without alot of turns left before Mud, and hardly any to dig-in. The industry is all long-gone, but I would like to kill all the troops in Leningrad, as well as close the Red Army recruiting stations therein.

AGC: Bletchley Geek did a nice job cutting-off 3rd Panzer. That cost me a turn, and probably any shot at Tula, which is already 1/2 empty. At this point, I just want him to be forced to move it.

Down by Kursk, we re-took it, and I expect OREL to fall shortly.

AGS: Kharkov falls without a fight. Strange! I guess B-G felt it was in danger of being pocketed. 17 Vehicles were still there.

I expected 1st Panzer to be cut-off, and they were. We freed them, and also continued to advance in all directions. We cut the rail line to Mariupol, dooming the 1 Arm Factory there.

CRIMEA: I was surprised that B-G fell back. I had decided I was not committing more than a German Corps plus Romanians down there, and they are making progress. I have a legit shot at Kerch, where there are 2 ARM, and maybe wintering down there.

IIRC, the Crimea is NOT Blizzard zone, right? So I should want to stay rather than fall back on the Perekop? I didn't intend to do this, but if it's available, I guess why not.

Sevastopol appears strongly held though

Industry Update: So far, I have killed 40 ARM and 17 VEHICLES. I am not keeping track of HI. Another ARM is trapped at Mariupol, and I have a shot at the 2 at Kerch. Stalino has 5 Vehicles still which are doomed. Beyond that, I think everything is out of realistic reach, barring a mistake on B-G's part.

[M60A3TTS]

How do recon flights improve combat odds?

edit: nm, I found it in the manual.

[Peltonx]

You can take Leningrad NP.

Load up 18th with ALLOT of hvy art. Put Model incharge of 1st Corps and add 1 division. Put your next best inf commander in charge of another corps.

Move a bunch of dive bombers into the area.

You need 1 panzer corps for follow up, full MP's so HQ up and sit until needed.

Attack across river, bomb hexes before attack a few times as per BG tactic. This attack works about everytime.

Also load up 1st then other corps with piles of eng's.

I done it more then once and so has a few poeple that have asked for my advice. No need to take ports.

Arm number is ok and you have his army at a ok number. Your tank numbers are still ok, stopping will not help, but the new patch should now.

I made 59 47mm units. This means I wasted a ton of arm pts on unless units when I should have been making TANKS.

I am very sure you been doing same thing why atleast my tank numbers are low 2300 and my units have not been fighting for weeks just chasing F acroos plains.

Anyways set-up things the way I said and you cross the river NP. Leningrad is yours now. Even if his CV=X.

Pelton

[Peltonx]

Your railheads are slow advancing also, why I double up. You should be withen HQ range at this point and your not by looks. If you were he be toast.

[Q-Ball]

QUICK UPDATE on T-13:

I have to hit the sack, so need to finish it tomorrow, but big development on T-13

After an HQ Buildup, our spearheads near Tula were faced with a drive toward an empty city. North of Vyazma, the Soviet lines appeared pretty clear, all the way to Moscow, confirmed by piles of recon (I think I must have flown 100 missions or so up there, including at least 30 on Moscow itself)

I was able to open a narrow corridor to Moscow. There was a single unit in W Moscow, but that's it. So, we were able to reach Moscow itself, and occupy the Kremlin. As I was doing it, I thought I would either have a narrow string of units over 10 hexes to Moscow, or it would have to be a suicide mission.

So, 12th Panzer is in the Moscow hex, but it's a one-way trip. I pulled everyone else back, deliberately sacrificing this one division. I'll post a map when I finish the rest of the turn, but tough decision. I'm not sure I would have done that, but after I moved into the hex, I just didn't think I could support it without risking more Panzers. Very tough, because 12th Panzer has 90 Morale which is how they got there in the first place.

We did take out 9 Arm, 5 Vehicles, the IL-4 and Pe-2 factories there, and a couple other items. I should have written it down before moving in, but I'll re-load the turn when I am done and count the damage.

Hopefully that's worth a dead Panzer unit. I hope so......

I am also going to follow Pelton's advice, and halt the drive on the Svir, load up 18th Army with all the Pioneers and Heavy Guns I can find, and assault Leningrad directly. With my other flank on the Volkhov, I can leave a very thin screen there, without risk of counterattack.

[Peltonx]

Nice deathride into Moscow. Make sure if you have not trash the manpower there also. I find so many Russian players make the simple mistake of not garrisioning citys. Its so easy to stop raids and yet they never garrision towns.

Thats 50 which is probably borderline enough. Plus with the fact you have been beating up his army and also trashing allot of manpower pts I would say you have upper hand now.

You will just have to avoid a bad blizzard and you should be looking at a very good 42 summer.

The units to keep at high morale during winter will be mech units, they require next to nothing in tanks and have allot of fire power and MP's. After 41 they do all hvy lifting.

Nice job.

The assault on Leningrad will probably take a few turns, the Pioneers should drop fort levels every assault, which will drop his CV's. I thk vs Kamil it took 3 assaults before the last one worked, this was longest it took most times 2nd or 3rd assault works.

Pelton

[Tarhunnas]

We cut the rail line to Mariupol, dooming the 1 Arm Factory there.

I think they can be evaced without rail line, as it is a port. Used to be possible a few versions back anyway (which I think is OK).

[Peltonx]

Yes and I agree also they should beable to be withdrawn by ship. Its much easyer to fill a ship with stuff then 200 rail cars.