The Obligatory First Impressions Thread

[JJKettunen]

ORIGINAL: Greyshaft
...I am using a strategy with plenty of historical precedent (eg Stalin in 1941, Napoleon in the 1814 Campaign)...

Just a side note: it was never Stalin's strategy to give ground voluntarily.

[Greyshaft]

ORIGINAL: Keke
Just a side note: it was never Stalin's strategy to give ground voluntarily.

True - I was referring to the flow of the campaign. My point was that the USSR won because the German juggernaut was never given the chance to land a knockout blow. They captured hundreds of thousands of men at Kiev but all of the industry had been moved east of the Urals and in Stalin's mind men were expendable. By the time the Germans reached Moscow they had been reduced to a more manageable force which could be kept out of the Kremlin by a couple of Siberian Huskies.


I am fighting where I can and retreating where I cannot. The difference is that I make a judgement whether a city can be held (even for a turn or two) and commit men accordingly. Stalin, as you said, didn't bother making a judgement - he just ordered that everything be held. I think his original reaction on hearing of the invasion was to order the army to kick the Germans out of the USSR within two weeks. When that plan obviously wasn't working he went into his room for a month and sulked.


So my strategy was to keep nipping at the German flanks with my armor divisions and make his Panzer Corps use their activity points tracking me down rather than marching on Moscow. It's cost a lot of men but by March 1942 I've got the Germans on the run. Note the queue of Axis units waiting to get into the Crimea - they'd be better employed defending Kharkov, but I'm not complaining

[doomtrader]

I'll try to adjust the Crimean bottleneck a little bit.

[Fastheinz]

Took a chance on this and am very happy i did.  Great game and effort!

[Zovs]

Mixed feelings/reviews on this game for me.

Points of interest.

Manual is not really well written. Lots of ambiguities and mistakes throughout the manual , not enough detailed explanation or graphics explaining things clearly. No separate tutorial has been provided (most Matrix games come with them). This alone makes it seem as though the game was rushed to get it out into the public or as a worse case scenario, there was no quality control and or English proofers. I had to read the manual several times in several places to make sense of it, of course I have been spoiled in the sense that I have been playing board war games for over 35 years and PC wargames for about 20 so maybe I am expecting too much.

According to the manual there is some really bizarre game machanics, such as (6.5.4) Land Unit Retreat "Units defending in cities or hexes with forts NEVER retreat." Pretty wonky. Also, (6.5.2) Terrain "Mountains give 100% to the defender! Very Wonkey! However the good news is that this is not true. I have been playing the game all day and have seen several Polish units retreat while in a city.

When the game first loads (both windowed mode and full screen mode) on my system the screen is completely black, but the music is playing. I need to left click the screen, two to three times to get it to go to next video screen). Kind of wonkey.

Also, in Windowed mode you can't scroll the map with the mouse for some reason. Okay it scrolls to the left and up but not to the right and down. Really wonkey for windowed mode. Hum, I set Windowed mode to my normal screen size (1920x1080) and it's not, its short and I can't see all the bottom icons. Wonkey. So really the only way I can play this game is in full screen mode.

Bombers wont bomb ships for some reason, even if placed on a coast or one hex inwards. Also, it only seems that Fighters can only do two things. Recon and occasionally intercept the other side. Other then that they dont seem to do much. I was thinking I might be able to hit enemy air bases but not so.

The Kiel canal is broken. The German ships in the Baltic are stuck their on the grand campaign.

I purchased an airborne division but I can't figure out how to purchase any ATP for it.

The good things about this game are:

You can select the kind of counters/icons or unit images you want to use and the kind of map as well.

The game plays pretty well once you get the hang of it (land game and very limited air game, seems that only tactical bombers are very useful, you can bomb enemy units, all fighters seem to be used for is recon and crossing fingers for the occasional intercept, no CAP or interdiction possible). The air game plays pretty easily (see above) and so does the naval. The Naval is the most document piece in the manual.

All in all its a fun little game. It's kind of irritating that their appears to be several bugs and the game may need a few tweaks to make it a little better. Perhaps with a few updates/patches it will be a really good game.

I have spent about 8 hours playing through to turn 6. I took out Poland in 3 turns which seems okay.

So my first impressions are okay, but a few minor irritating features for the price of this game, luckily I got the 30% discount since I previously owned TOW, which I never really played all that much. This one has a lot more potential.

I tried to mod some of the graphics but when loaded they were really all wonkey so not sure why.

[Razz1]

ORIGINAL: dlazov66

Mixed feelings/reviews on this game for me.

Points of interest.

Manual is not really well written. Lots of ambiguities and mistakes throughout the manual , not enough detailed explanation or graphics explaining things clearly. No separate tutorial has been provided (most Matrix games come with them). This alone makes it seem as though the game was rushed to get it out into the public or as a worse case scenario, there was no quality control and or English proofers. I had to read the manual several times in several places to make sense of it, of course I have been spoiled in the sense that I have been playing board war games for over 35 years and PC wargames for about 20 so maybe I am expecting too much.

According to the manual there is some really bizarre game machanics, such as (6.5.4) Land Unit Retreat "Units defending in cities or hexes with forts NEVER retreat." Pretty wonky. Also, (6.5.2) Terrain "Mountains give 100% to the defender! Very Wonkey! However the good news is that this is not true. I have been playing the game all day and have seen several Polish units retreat while in a city.

When the game first loads (both windowed mode and full screen mode) on my system the screen is completely black, but the music is playing. I need to left click the screen, two to three times to get it to go to next video screen). Kind of wonkey.

Also, in Windowed mode you can't scroll the map with the mouse for some reason. Okay it scrolls to the left and up but not to the right and down. Really wonkey for windowed mode. Hum, I set Windowed mode to my normal screen size (1920x1080) and it's not, its short and I can't see all the bottom icons. Wonkey. So really the only way I can play this game is in full screen mode.

Bombers wont bomb ships for some reason, even if placed on a coast or one hex inwards. Also, it only seems that Fighters can only do two things. Recon and occasionally intercept the other side. Other then that they dont seem to do much. I was thinking I might be able to hit enemy air bases but not so.

The Kiel canal is broken. The German ships in the Baltic are stuck their on the grand campaign.

I purchased an airborne division but I can't figure out how to purchase any ATP for it.

The good things about this game are:

You can select the kind of counters/icons or unit images you want to use and the kind of map as well.

The game plays pretty well once you get the hang of it (land game and very limited air game, seems that only tactical bombers are very useful, you can bomb enemy units, all fighters seem to be used for is recon and crossing fingers for the occasional intercept, no CAP or interdiction possible). The air game plays pretty easily (see above) and so does the naval. The Naval is the most document piece in the manual.

All in all its a fun little game. It's kind of irritating that their appears to be several bugs and the game may need a few tweaks to make it a little better. Perhaps with a few updates/patches it will be a really good game.

I have spent about 8 hours playing through to turn 6. I took out Poland in 3 turns which seems okay.

So my first impressions are okay, but a few minor irritating features for the price of this game, luckily I got the 30% discount since I previously owned TOW, which I never really played all that much. This one has a lot more potential.

I tried to mod some of the graphics but when loaded they were really all wonkey so not sure why.

What's wrong with playing in Fullscreen mode?

You have to click on the sea zone to bomb it. You can see which zones you can hit as they are highlighted.
You also have to be in range. 5 hexes.

Fighters work great. See the Red hexes? Those are the one you can attack. So yes you can bomb the enemy's airports.

I believe the Kiel canal is not broken. It is WAD otherwise USA British Russian can use it.

You have to control it. Same as in other straits. Have to control both sides.
Don't worry, you can wait until you capture Denmark.

Next time you questions or concerns can you please kindly ask?

The development team is very small.

When your boss says release or else forget it.....
That what happens in all games now a days. Nothing new.

I believe I answered most of your bugs, as they are not bugs, just a lack of knowledge on how the game is played.

The only concern is windows mode.

Tutorial? There is one in the game. There have been compliments on it. What do you mean by separate? It is separate from the game. The tutorial shows you the game mechanics. It was a development decision not to put all the basics in the manual as people don't read them any more. They load the game and play or load the game and play the tutorial now a days. ** However, I agree. I read manuals. Writing of the manual was a translation and political issue as the originator of the document would have had everything re-written, then they would have understood it differently due to translation problems.

Have you read the strategy guide yet?

Thanks for the feedback. I feel sorry about the window problem.

[Magpius]

Post your mod attempts into the mod forum, and we'll work out what went odd.
transparency issue with .pngs or the .csv files perhaps.

[Zovs]

ORIGINAL: Razz

What's wrong with playing in Fullscreen mode?

Nothing, really, just wanted to post what I am finding.

You have to click on the sea zone to bomb it. You can see which zones you can hit as they are highlighted.
You also have to be in range. 5 hexes.

I'll try double checking I am pretty sure I had some bombers within 5 hexes but nothing turned red.

Fighters work great. See the Red hexes? Those are the one you can attack. So yes you can bomb the enemy's airports.

Nope, none of the fighter when I select them display any red hex outlines to attack anything. All they can be used for is recon and hopefully interception.

I believe the Kiel canal is not broken. It is WAD otherwise USA British Russian can use it.

You have to control it. Same as in other straits. Have to control both sides.
Don't worry, you can wait until you capture Denmark.

So your saying even if I control Kiel and Hamburg I also have to control Denmark to use it?

Okay, kind of weird but okay.

Next time you questions or concerns can you please kindly ask?

The development team is very small.

Sure, but I was just voicing my opinion and frustration.

When your boss says release or else forget it.....
That what happens in all games now a days. Nothing new.

Not really, I have worked on a few games and the developers can push back if they feel they are not ready. Nothing wrong there.

I believe I answered most of your bugs, as they are not bugs, just a lack of knowledge on how the game is played.

If the manual was better written then maybe no lack of knowledge?

The only concern is windows mode.

?

Tutorial? There is one in the game. There have been compliments on it. What do you mean by separate? It is separate from the game. The tutorial shows you the game mechanics. It was a development decision not to put all the basics in the manual as people don't read them any more. They load the game and play or load the game and play the tutorial now a days. ** However, I agree. I read manuals. Writing of the manual was a translation and political issue as the originator of the document would have had everything re-written, then they would have understood it differently due to translation problems.

The in-game tutorial is pretty basic, I guess I was looking more for a strategy guide.

Have you read the strategy guide yet?

You mean the 10 page word doc? I don't really call that a strategy guide, more like a hint.

No, both the tutorial and the strategy guide I was hoping to see was like something I wrote for the GG WitE guide/tutorial/strategy guide.

Thanks for the feedback. I feel sorry about the window problem.

[Zovs]

Agent S,

I'll try using a different editor and see what happens.

I got the CSV / text files modified to use the font I want. Any clues to all the other items in the text files?

No editor manual either?

[Zovs]

Thanks to Razz other posts on how to bomb air units and other land units I figured it out.

I am using different graphic mods and am new to the game so my bad.

This game does grown on you, but at times parts of it can be frustrating.

[demyansk]

I was wondering with all the user made maps on Norm Koger's Art of war how is this game compared to TOAW3?  I ams till getting through panzer Corps and rarely play War in the East so I am waiting on this one until it gets a little more polished.

[macroeconomics]

I never played TOAW3, but I played TOAW and TOAW2 extensively. Unit detail is not as high in ToF as it is in TOAW, as individual weapon systems are not modeled. I think supply is handled better in ToF, although with TOAW being an operational game is naturally not as big of a focus area for that title.

The biggest difference I felt between ToF and TOAW1/2 is the AI (other than the obvious strategic vs. tactical/operational focus). In TOAW1/2 the AI is scripted at the unit level. It made the AI extremely vulnerable to broad pincer movements as the AI's units continued advancing along their individual paths despite the player developing a deep penetration strategic threat. The AI is ToF is surprisingly robust when playing one of the defensive countries (UK, France, USSR in first half of the war). Even the the naval AI for Great Britain avoids the typical pitfalls we've all seen in other big WW2 games. It concentrates when you concentrate your fleet. It doesn't allow you to relentlessly pick off single ship fleets. It knows how to raid your convoy lines.

ToF is not fully polished. But in single player mode, the AI is such a big leap over other WW2 titles of this scale that it almost makes you forget that you aren't playing a human. It's that good. Right now. In version 1.00.

[sabre1]

So, should I "wait" for that obligatory first patch? So many games and so little time. [;)]

I'm already comitted to a game with that suspicious looking dwarf Martok.

This game is on my to buy list, but just curious when that first patch is coming.

[Numdydar]

Mid Jan is what is expected for the first patch.

[freeboy]

agreed with macro, seriously good ai... not human good but good..
and my first foray into server games.. they do make it easier.. suprise to me

[RandomAttack]

Had the game a few days now, have played most of the campaigns through at least several turns, and have been avidly following comments on the forum. Also a ToW owner. There already are a multitude of fixes identified for the first patch and the devs have been great about answering questions. All my own editorial opinion of course!

Bottom Line: Currently a GOOD game, with the potential to be a GREAT game.

The Good:
- Love the graphics & maps (lots of options!)
- The scale is just right IMO.
- Lots of gameplay mechanics/criteria are easily moddable.
- While no one is EVER happy with an AI, I think it's adequate.

The Not-So-Good:
- As in ToW, the devs seem to delight in lots of hidden mechanics, "surprise" events, etc. I personally find this cutesy and distracting, and it results in my questioning virtually EVERYTHING that happens... Why can't my massive fleet "detect" and "engage" an enemy fleet in a sea zone the size of a bathtub?? Why is my TacAir taking big losses when hitting "0.6" strength infantry unit (no, it wasn't intercepted)?? Stuff like this drives me a little nuts and ruins the immersion.
- For many events it really isn't clear what the impact of your choices are. I would like to see this totally transparent. If violating "treaty X" has a 50% chance of causing war with "country Y", TELL me that so I can make an informed decision. As it is, you are too often left with no idea at all what the chances are (and I shouldn't have to go pour over the event files to try and figure it out).
- While there is a LOT of data available in various report screens, I find it hard to glean the nuggets of info that are truly relevant. Ultimately, I want to push counters-- not sort through tons of data and try and discern why this or that did or did not happen as expected. That's what my Staff is for! [:'(] The data IS there-- whether you can transform it into "information" and draw the proper conclusions is another matter.

Many "bugs" have already been identified and will be fixed soon, and many of the "features" that I personally dislike appear easily moddable. But I think I will wait until after the first patch before I try modding anything. I don't regret buying ToF, and count my time playing it as well spent getting comfortable with the basic system "pre-patch".

And as "Peggy" says in that credit card commercial, looking at the blinking telephone lights: "So prettty..."

[Razz1]

Events do tell what happens. Hover your mouse over the option.
They are based upon historical turning points that happened in WW2.
If you know history there are no surprises like Aliens from outer space.

[RandomAttack]

My space alien comment was in the OTHER thread. [:)]

I'm quite aware of the history, but that doesn't mean I know which "version" is modeled here-- especially when we're talking hypotheticals. Take the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact when Germany conquers Poland. If I choose "Abrogate" it merely says "USSR may declare War". But what are the chances?? 1%? 50%? 99%? I could make a very good argument that the chances were no better than 25%, while others could equally insist it was a virtual certainty. But what did the DEVELOPERS decide it was, for THIS game? And why is it not just stated so I don't have to guess what THEY were thinking? As it stands, I have absolutely NOTHING to go on to indicate the level of risk. I really don't care to argue about WHAT they picked as a probablility-- I just want to know up front what it was so I can make an informed decision.

[Razz1]

Umm.. maybe they want us to guess.

Let's see if your request can be made.

There is a good debate as to why they don't want players to know.

I believe the MR pact tells you what will happen if you hover the mouse over it.

[colberki]

I was very upset after buying Time of Wrath - I found it quite a useless game but I just bought Time of Fury at full price as I cant find the original email with my key. I hope I wont regret it. [8|] Reviews of the game are rather mixed - let's see if the next few patches address all issues and improvements needed.

The ability to re-skin to old SPI looks persuaded me to take a chance![:D]