East Front Game

[T-28A]

Hi guys,

ORIGINAL: Arjuna
Re East Front game. Pavel has been very busy with his work for the last few months and has had little if any time to devote to it.

I have not much to add to what Dave said, except that I'm planning to return to active development in a month or two.
Not that screenies are the same as the real game, but... in case you might be interested, here's one from the Kamensk scenario set. It is the starting hours of the Kamensk grand campaign, where ad-hoc Gruppe Baer (commanded by Oberst Karl Baer) alarmed and takes a defensive posture against incoming vanguards of 23rd Tank Corps not seen here (commanded by MajGen/TkTrps Efim Pushkin).


Best regards

[wodin]

Oh you great big tease you..

Does this mean the main core game has been done including doctrines or is this just using the COBFTB engine?

Loving the map detail showing streets etc etc...

So are actual individual factories modelled etc? This would be cool for say a Stalingrad Scenario..

[T-28A]

Hi wodin,

It's BFTB for now.

[wodin]

OK fair enough.

[Phoenix100]

Looks like a lovely map.

[stardark]

Looking forward to this! [&o]

[wosung]

Hu? *Urlauber-Kompanie* (soldier on leave) on the screenshoot?

Sounds like top-notch detailed OOB.

Will be interesting to fight with mid-war German *Alarmeinheiten* against Soviet Guard units.

Best regards

[T-28A]

ORIGINAL: wosung
Hu? *Urlauber-Kompanie* (soldier on leave) on the screenshoot?

Exactly [:)] Most of the units on the screen from Gruppe Baer were adhoc companies like this one (but of different quality, though), except few reserve (training) companies and railroad engineers.

[hjc]

Fantastic to see progress on this. Thanks for the bone!

[T-28A]

Ok, let us start a New Year with a pair of new screenshots.

The scenario represents the final chapter of Kamensk campaign, that starts two hours before the dawn, January 21st, 1943. The bulk of XXXXVIII.Panzerkorps opposes the bulk of 3rd Guards Army, in the scenario representing the German counterattack, aimed to cut off Soviet troops wedged into the north-western city districts, and establish the defensive line along the southern bank of Donetz.

As you can see from the screenshot, German forces are a tremendous patchwork of various unit types and formations. Looking attentively at the OoB, you can see how mixed their troops are, even at battalion level, as they were entering the campaign piecemeal.
Units from four distinct formations (7th Panzer, 302nd and 304th Infantry Divisions, and Gruppe Baer) are caught on the screenshot, and there is also the Kampfgruppe from the 6th Panzer Division (KG Quentin), not caught on the screenshot, too.
I expect it will take some time for German player to study the OoB and understand the initial setup before un-pausing the game

[T-28A]

As the Soviet commander, you will also have some tough time, albeit for different reasons.
By January 21st, your core striking formation, the Group Rumjantsev (joint forces of two brigades, 39th Tank and 56th Motor Rifle), is already tired and halved in size, all your reserves are already committed and you lack ammo and fuel, while Germans seem to keep bringing fresh units with every hour, sealing all the gaps and blocking your tanks' advance in the narrow streets of Kamensk. If you keep up attacking, as you did in past days, it is very likely that you will lose this battle of attrition.
Your historical counterpart, 23rd Tank Corps CO General Pushkin, anticipating the possible German counterattack, ordered his troops the defensive posture on 11-00, January 21st. You, as the Soviet player, have five hours more than that, use them to plan your defenses more carefully, - or launch the last all-out attack to improve your positions.
This scenario is expected to be quite tough for Soviet side, especially because the only river crossing capable to carry tanks is about 10 km away. So, while your infantry can always retreat across the Donetz by ice, to live and fight another day, your tanks and their crews have the only choice of winning or dying.

[Bil H]

ORIGINAL: Rtwfreak

Are you ever going to improve the graphics of the units? I'd really like to see something like in Panzer General style instead of top down nato counters or those other bland counters.

While I hate the idea of a more stylized Panzer Genereal type icon, I actually think that there is MUCH room for improvement to the counters and have actually tried a couple of times throughout the years to get them updated so they at least look like they were designed in the 21st century.

However there are much bigger fish to fry with this engine than the counters so I would rather Dave and Paul spend their time tweaking the high value items that are on Dave's never ending Honey-do list.

Bil

[Phoenix100]

Looks fascinating. Thanks T-28a. Will it be out this year? I assume not. Next year?

[T-28A]

ORIGINAL: phoenix
Looks fascinating. Thanks T-28a. Will it be out this year? I assume not. Next year?

This year would be excellent, but I believe it is definitely overoptimistic, so next is the most feasible (I'm talking about myself here, other guys have their own plans and estimates, especially engine-wise).
Anyway, it's a pity it is not done already, as winter 2012/2013 was/is 70th anniversary of the events...

[wodin]

I suppose the scenarios are still running on the BFTB engine? If so I doubt we will see EF game until summer of 2014.

[Bil H]

ORIGINAL: wodin

I suppose the scenarios are still running on the BFTB engine? If so I doubt we will see EF game until summer of 2014.

I think it's wrong to label this the BFTB engine.. it is the Command Ops engine. It is the same engine that was used for RDOA, COTA, HTTR, and BFTB.. though it was tweaked and evolved some with each release the base was the same. I doubt you will see major differences for the East Front game or even for LOTB (although if I have my way LOTB could diverge more than any of the others have).

That doesn't mean the game can't handle different theaters because I think it can do that just fine. Including the East Front.

I believe the main hold up for this game is Estabs, maps, and scenario creation. Dave's part is easy. [:D]

Bil

[wodin]

What I'm saying Bil is it's still CO BFTB engine i.e not the updated one we will be getting in EF with new features in (no dismounted Inf, no Doctrines etc)..I'm sure evyone knows what I mean plus it's quicker than typing Command Ops..lazy.

Just re reading what you said Bil...I remember Dave saying the engine needed Russian combat doctrines to do the east front right..and also to get dismounted Inf in..so has this changed now? Doesn't the game need Russian doctrines anymore? I'm really confused. If it's just a case of making OOB's and Scenarios surely it would come out as a major expansion rather than a new game in the series? If it's possible to create any theater (which Dave said at one point EF game would need new combat doctrine for the Russians) why would it take to next year to do the OOB's and make scenarios? Surely that could be done in a year or abit more?

What I'm trying to ask is have things changed now and the EF game wont have new features tailored for the theater or other general new features (if not thats some surprising news indeed)?

[RockinHarry]

With regard to "doctrines", is anything like "overrun", "breakthrough attack", or "sneak attack" considered, particularly for pure armored type formations (tank, or tank + halftracks)?

Currently one needs to completely push aside enemy infantry units in heavy combat, even if the infantry completely lacks any anti armor capabilities.

I don´t mean to let an attacking armored force take measures to find a path around an enemy unit, the more if time is vital and the enemy is sitting at the only good road around. So in these cases an aggressive, bold armor commander would "simply" overrun (or bypass straight THROUGH) this enemy unit and let the cleaning works to some following up units, composed mostly of infantry.

It´s a speciality practiced at high times of Blitzkrieg (1939-42...for germans), but also later for the allies, particularly the russians in the last half of the war.

At the same time, the defending (more or less helpless) infantry, would have to let pass the enemy armor without taking up an effortless fight and instead keep heads down and hold the line to deal with any enemy infantry, that might follow up later.

[wodin]

Not sure if thats what Dave means. I know he wanted to look at the Russians with regards to formations and mass attacks etc. Not sure he means specific new attack orders though.

[Blackstreet]

I have a question about the new game: will more players be able to participate in Multiplayer mode?

I ask because there are many people out there playing strategic games either using Kriegsspiel type rules, or not, but in any case, playing MP with many players on each side, giving different players different commands (and sometimes, different levels of command), and it seems that the Command Ops series is almost designed for this to make a perfect MP experience with many players on each side. For example, Scourge of War, another grand strategy game, has a very healthy MP community, playing games every evening often with over 10 players per side!

In fact, I would have thought that this is what any MoD contracts would be after in the CO series.

If you were going to do it properly, you'd have a setting for giving players limited intelligence of their own units too.

Just some thoughts.