Making Lemonade: JocMeister (A) vs. SqzMyLemon (J) BabesLite-B

[DanielAnsell]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Ah, I actually meant the Christmas Island in the CentPac. I garrisoned it heavily in my other game. Built it up to max. And never used it. [:)]

Regarding the Dutch airforce:
They are perm restricted. Don´t think they were in the vanilla game but the are in Babes! So they are stuck in Java! [:)]

Sadly true, and you'd think I'd know that since one of my two current PBEMs is Big Babes C campaign.

As far as Christmas Island, I always like to throw a Marine Defense Battalion there and some combat engineers to build it up for the VP, and to make the Japanese at least make a real effort to take the place. As you say, it is far forward, and close enough to Pearl to stage fighters and dive bombers in rapidly, and maybe even get some cheap kills on transports and escorts. If you have any useful warning, it can even be a good place to stage a surface battle with LBA at hand.

And if he does slip in and grab it, you still haven't lost much.

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: obvert

Yes. I knew all of this already. One reason why my sub campaign has been dismal to say the least. [:)]

While in real life these ports were important, in game they don't have to be at all. Just go around far to the South and get things to OZ that way.

You can go about it in many different ways. Though I don´t think I would want to share how I do it with you! [:D]

ORIGINAL: Carny

Sadly true, and you'd think I'd know that since one of my two current PBEMs is Big Babes C campaign.

As far as Christmas Island, I always like to throw a Marine Defense Battalion there and some combat engineers to build it up for the VP, and to make the Japanese at least make a real effort to take the place. As you say, it is far forward, and close enough to Pearl to stage fighters and dive bombers in rapidly, and maybe even get some cheap kills on transports and escorts. If you have any useful warning, it can even be a good place to stage a surface battle with LBA at hand.

And if he does slip in and grab it, you still haven't lost much.

I will try and do that if Joseph allows me too! But if he wants it I can´t stop him right now. [:)]

He is currently trying to grab Canton Island. I snuck in a defense battalion and some mines there that pretty much ruined his first attempt. If he goes for Christmas after that I can´t stop him right now! I just don´t have any troops to send there! Might be able to do as you say in case he doesn´t bring the KB with him [:)]

[JocMeister]

9th of January

Not much happening. A sub of mine lunches 8 Torps on a lone AK for 1 hit.

In China I managed to jump one of his Ann groups downing 7 for no own losses. The squadron withdraws into hiding after that. He is continuing his relentless push for Sian. I don´t think I will be able to stop him. Map will come up later today.

KB

Location unknown. Last seen at Canton Island heading due East. I expect a visit at Sydney shortly. 1 group of Cats are on there way to OZ to help with NavSearch.

Singers
Joseph have been using a single Oscar Ic group to escort nearly 100 Sallys. He has slowly upped the altitude from 10k to 18k. Guess Flak really works. Thats new! [:)]
Today though, almost 100 Allied fighters will rise to meet them. I hope to overwhelm the 27 Oscars and then get to the bombers. The allied force is made up of Buffs and P40s. Keep your fingers crossed...

Rangoon
First wave of Nells/Betties hit some MBTs in the harbor. Good to know. I will try and set a trap for him catching his Zeroes on escort. They way the airmodel works anything stuck on escort it almost a free kill. Even highly superior pilots in superior planes. I need to take advantage of that! Unless they fixed this in Babes? Anyone knows?

Elsewhere
Queen Elisabeth will arrive shortly on the WC. Mission to transport the first regiment of the Americal Division to Suva in a few days. Don´t want to give Suva away cheaply!

[JocMeister]

Uuuugh!

Whats with me and the strange stuff? This is getting tiresome. [:(]

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=124ar8j&s=6

http://oi47.tinypic.com/15xttn5.jpg

So I now have a complete stack of 800 AV that will be completely cut off within a few turns. I have emailed Joseph asking his opinion.

Really tiresome.

[obvert]

Did something move to block their path? Were they bombed? Are there any factors to explain it or is this just weirdness?

You may do this as well already, but I've found the longer the movement path I set the more room for errors, so sometimes I just set them to 1-2 hex movements, then set them again after they've finished that one.

[Empire101]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

9th of January


Singers
Joseph have been using a single Oscar Ic group to escort nearly 100 Sallys. He has slowly upped the altitude from 10k to 18k. Guess Flak really works. Thats new! [:)]
Today though, almost 100 Allied fighters will rise to meet them. I hope to overwhelm the 27 Oscars and then get to the bombers. The allied force is made up of Buffs and P40s. Keep your fingers crossed...

That is going to hurt if you catch them. Only 27 escorts?

He has got to have forgotten!![X(]
Good Luck!!

[JocMeister]

Hello Empire and welcome! [:)]

We did indeed rise to meet him and we did well!

Morning Air attack on Singapore , at 50,84

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 54
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 27



Allied aircraft
Buffalo I x 57
P-40E Warhawk x 35


Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21-IIa Sally: 3 destroyed, 24 damaged
Ki-21-IIa Sally: 1 destroyed by flak
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 5 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Buffalo I: 1 destroyed

This is the losses of the day. Joseph wasn´t very happy and on the following day 60 Zeroes swept Singers and according to Joseph they will continue to do so until it has fallen! [:D]

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: obvert

Did something move to block their path? Were they bombed? Are there any factors to explain it or is this just weirdness?

You may do this as well already, but I've found the longer the movement path I set the more room for errors, so sometimes I just set them to 1-2 hex movements, then set them again after they've finished that one.

Nope, I checked "hex ownership thingie" and nothing should interrupt. The hex they were just about to move into are still in Allied control. They were set to move only 1 hex to the West. I went back a few turns and everything is fine until the 3rd of January were a Corps got reset. Then a few HQs got reset the following turns and now the whole stack suddenly got reset to "2" Even units that was not to have moved over to the hex that turn.


On a more general note:

I have seen this happen so much in China its crazy. Its destroying the game when it happens on this scale. 850 AV that will now be cut off. Joseph asked me how I wanted to solve it but I have no good solution. I don´t want to go back to the 2nd since its still no guarantee it wont happen again. And going back to the second means we loose over a week real time. As well as the absolute hassle of redoing everything.

I have no solution. If anyone has any idea on howto solve this I would be happy to hear them. I have asked Joseph the same.

Its a bit tiresome stuff like this isn´t fixed after all this time. Apparently Joseph reported almost the exact same thing a while back but the issue was never solved. He was only told to not use the follow command so he didn´t but the exact same thing happened again.

Sorry if I´m sounding a bit harsh but this is extremely annoying. I´m pretty fed up right now with all the issues. If its not pure bugs its "hidden features" that are so hidden almost no one knows about them.

I just want to play the damned game and not spend hours and hours testing, redoing turns, asking on the forum, searching the forum, fiddeling with backup saves and negotiating with my opponents trying to work around the constant problems.

[Empire101]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Hello Empire and welcome! [:)]

We did indeed rise to meet him and we did well!

Morning Air attack on Singapore , at 50,84

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 54
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 27



Allied aircraft
Buffalo I x 57
P-40E Warhawk x 35


Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21-IIa Sally: 3 destroyed, 24 damaged
Ki-21-IIa Sally: 1 destroyed by flak
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 5 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Buffalo I: 1 destroyed

This is the losses of the day. Joseph wasn´t very happy and on the following day 60 Zeroes swept Singers and according to Joseph they will continue to do so until it has fallen! [:D]

Ouch!! That certainly stung him into action with the Zero's!!

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Its a bit tiresome stuff like this isn´t fixed after all this time. Apparently Joseph reported almost the exact same thing a while back but the issue was never solved. He was only told to not use the follow command so he didn´t but the exact same thing happened again.

Sorry if I´m sounding a bit harsh but this is extremely annoying. I´m pretty fed up right now with all the issues. If its not pure bugs its "hidden features" that are so hidden almost no one knows about them.

I just want to play the damned game and not spend hours and hours testing, redoing turns, asking on the forum, searching the forum, fiddeling with backup saves and negotiating with my opponents trying to work around the constant problems.

+1

I never use follow, just because I don't trust it at all.

I've never had a unit lose movement and reset that I have seen anyway. For you two I would suggest he let you move them (if they actually will move) to wherever you were going to move them and go from there. Not sure if he's keen to do that though.

[Empire101]

ORIGINAL: obvert


I never use follow, just because I don't trust it at all.

Strange, I've never had a problem with it, but then I'm only using it to move 'clumps of units 1-3 hexes, but I always use it on river assaults.

I do always check where they are moving to after I've put the orders in, and if there is a problem, I will alter accordingly.

[moore4807]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

On a more general note:

Sorry if I´m sounding a bit harsh but this is extremely annoying. I´m pretty fed up right now with all the issues. If its not pure bugs its "hidden features" that are so hidden almost no one knows about them.

I just want to play the damned game and not spend hours and hours testing, redoing turns, asking on the forum, searching the forum, fiddeling with backup saves and negotiating with my opponents trying to work around the constant problems.

Jocmeister,

I have seen some of the issues you refer to in my game, specifically the routing of some units. I choose to look at it this way - macromanaging over 1 million "men" in this game how can we possibly expect everything to go right? IRL subordinates "screw up" with regularity, so why shouldn't this be mirrored in a game? I had a TF routed to the east out of the Phillipines only to discover they went east for two days then turned south for a turn and started back west again, with the TF being sunk promptly by the Japanese TF I ordered them away from! Frustrating - but IRL Command never would have seen this happen and would have to just considered them overdue - missing/sunk.

I'm not as worried about snafu's since I figure that the opponent has troubles too, just like me. If I remember correctly "Vinegar Joe" Stillwell tried to quit his C-B-I post many times because the Chinese wouldnt fight the way he ordered them to. The Nationalist Chinese would attend meetings, agree to everything said, then do as they damn well pleased once they were back in the field. I see this is how the Chinese LCU's act when I give them orders too!

IRL I worked/managed at a 24/7 call center, with just over 100 people. If I told you that even with written rules available on a computer screen in front of them, a supervisor detailed to handle issues, and the call center screen formatted to route calls within a minute, we had an average of 5 discipline actions a month - because people could not follow direction or remember thier training! If you apply that 5% principle to the game, then 10,000 "men" would be doing whatever they pleased at all levels of command! Seems like anarchy would reign, but its also a 95% compliance rate too! Which way do you look at it?
Just my $.02

Best of luck - nice AAR too

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: moore4807

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

On a more general note:

Sorry if I´m sounding a bit harsh but this is extremely annoying. I´m pretty fed up right now with all the issues. If its not pure bugs its "hidden features" that are so hidden almost no one knows about them.

I just want to play the damned game and not spend hours and hours testing, redoing turns, asking on the forum, searching the forum, fiddeling with backup saves and negotiating with my opponents trying to work around the constant problems.

Jocmeister,

I have seen some of the issues you refer to in my game, specifically the routing of some units. I choose to look at it this way - macromanaging over 1 million "men" in this game how can we possibly expect everything to go right? IRL subordinates "screw up" with regularity, so why shouldn't this be mirrored in a game? I had a TF routed to the east out of the Phillipines only to discover they went east for two days then turned south for a turn and started back west again, with the TF being sunk promptly by the Japanese TF I ordered them away from! Frustrating - but IRL Command never would have seen this happen and would have to just considered them overdue - missing/sunk.

I'm not as worried about snafu's since I figure that the opponent has troubles too, just like me. If I remember correctly "Vinegar Joe" Stillwell tried to quit his C-B-I post many times because the Chinese wouldnt fight the way he ordered them to. The Nationalist Chinese would attend meetings, agree to everything said, then do as they damn well pleased once they were back in the field. I see this is how the Chinese LCU's act when I give them orders too!

IRL I worked/managed at a 24/7 call center, with just over 100 people. If I told you that even with written rules available on a computer screen in front of them, a supervisor detailed to handle issues, and the call center screen formatted to route calls within a minute, we had an average of 5 discipline actions a month - because people could not follow direction or remember thier training! If you apply that 5% principle to the game, then 10,000 "men" would be doing whatever they pleased at all levels of command! Seems like anarchy would reign, but its also a 95% compliance rate too! Which way do you look at it?
Just my $.02

Best of luck - nice AAR too

Great perspective. I completely get this, on a general level. But if my stack went East when they were supposed to go West, or if they moved in retreat for three days and then had all of their movement erased by a game engine AI decision, this could be catastrophic. It could mean that you lose Burma or China, for instance, a year before you have to lose it, because your stack gets routed and you can never stop the bleeding.

On a real life level this could surely happen, but it would be for different reasons. You as commander would get a different message. 'Landslide closed the road.' 'The KMT troops decided to hold in position to avoid loses and protect the local warlord's territory.' The game is set up as an abstract of real life. If the abstract fails to work properly, it doesn't get as close to real life situations. In this case, if his troops had moved for three days, and gotten to a certain place, they couldn't teleport back to where they started. Their movement might be stopped, but it wouldn't go backward due to the game's abstract method for showing movement gone wrong.

Jocke, I haven't noticed you open a thread in the main forum or the war room on this topic. I think you should, just to hear some discussion about it. Were you using follow? What state of readiness were the troops in, 'move,' 'combat' or 'reserve?' These things might have some relevance that someone could shed light on.

[moore4807]

Obvert,

I missed the teleporting of units, of course that is a bug and would need to be corrected. Case in point 2 Chinese INF units in a hex, both units sent to protect a nearby city, Unit #1 gets underway in two turns over road hex, Unit #2 still sitting there after 4 days, no reason seen. Check Leader scores Unit #1 leader 47 land score / Unit #2 leader a 35 land score - inspiration is low too. I pay PP to change him and it still is another 3 days before they get underway, meanwhile the Japanese have taken the city and Unit#1 is annihilated for being in wrong op mode. Frustrating? YES but Unit #2 is saved though through incompetence! Real life possibility - sure!


Still I have a hard time complaining when so many volunteer hours have been put into these mods, I don't think JocMeister is wrong either, I would be frustrated if I saw teleportation happen too... good suggestion about posting in the War room.

[JocMeister]

Good discussion! [:)]

And moore, Welcome!

I see how you are thinking and its a good way to deal with some of the minor gripes with the game. I actually use that way of thinking from time to time when things screw up for whatever reason. But sometimes "issues" like this are just too big to live with. As obvert points out this is a pretty dire situation as the stack earlier made a weird retreat. It retreated NE instead of NW/W to safety. So I was already a bit annoyed with the game to say the least! [;)]

Anyway, this stack could decide the fate of Sian. It might just be cut off later on but leaving this as it is would certainly spell doom for Sian. Loosing Sian mean loosing Lanchow and loosing Lanchow means game over in China. Game over in China this early is a pretty big deal. It should take about 6 months before China collapse. Not six weeks! [:)]

As I also wrote I have been spending a loooot of time dealing with "issues/bugs/features" lately and I just want to play the damned game. Its even more frustrating that this is a bug/issue/feature that has been known for a VERY long time. But the only one doing any kind of support/fixing right now is michelm. He is doing this in his spare time and for free. I´m sure he would have sorted this out if it was an easy fix. So I guess we will just have to learn to live with it. And usually when stuff like this happens and you are blessed with excellent opponent that I am it can be sorted out. But its very, very hard to "fix" this outside the game without upsetting a lot of other stuff. [:)]

I made a short post in the tech forum. Hopefully michelm can save the day. Otherwise I´ll just surrender China or something! [:D]

[JocMeister]

Still on hold. Looks like we won´t get any help with this.

I sent Joseph an email proposing we "freeze" the area around that stack and try to get it to move to the intended hex without interruption. Don´t know what he thinks but its the only thing I can come up with.

[JocMeister]

Game is moving forward again!

We have a complete "freeze" in China right now. Nothing moves or flies except the "stuck" stack. Hopefully it will transition normally to the next hex this time. I´m starting to suspect that this is somehow related to units getting bombed by air causing the OP mode to change from move to combat. I have nothing to prove this theseus but a hunch. I´ll keep my eyes open for it from now on though.

Not much to report though besides KB showing up west of Noumuea. I had a TF with a PC and two APs that didn´t make it out in time. Nothing else in any danger though. I´ll try to do a proper update during the weekend!

Stay tuned! [:)]

[ny59giants]

Are you steadily repairing HI and then some LI at Chungking?? I do about 5 days worth per month until its done so not to wreck my supply situation and allow replacement squads to be added to units resting there.

[JocMeister]

Micheal, You are a never ending supply of information! [:D]

No I havn´t repaired any HI. I though that it ate too much supply? I will start doing so right away.

[ny59giants]

As long as you get a steady supply of fuel to Chungking, I would steadily repair my HI. I would go for the LI last. You have plenty of Resources. Do is slow, but steady.

I just got spanked by those Corsairs in late Nov 43. My Franks and Georges were LRCAP a base. The losses were not pretty. [X(] The Corsair has a speed just over 400. That helps!!