Case Blue Olivier(Axis) vs Keunert

[olivier34]

That makes sence. You have even bought trains to evacuate Rostov ! I have not try to blow bridges with my bombers, only one time to cut the rail line that your troops were using to evacuate Rostov. Did this bother you a little ?
Not taking Rostov made me lose 8 prestige pts and the most important made me lose a lot of time before I could finally advance in the Caucase. My 11th army (Von Manstein) was stuck in front of the city. The only assault against a urban hex failed...Holding Rostov was a good one. I decided to leave a lot of troops in front of the city so that you had to keep a lot of troops yourself to hold it. I knew I could not take it in time by a frontal assault even with the "gamble card" that Von Manstein has.
How many prestige points did you get ? (I was hoping that when you get your prestiges pts, you would evacuate the city. Are you rewarded several times, at different dates ?)
I just check the prestige pts. You had 42 of them around the 20th of August and me only 20 ! Why did you spend your prestige pts ? Keeping them gives you more pps per turn.
What are the conditions to receive This event "no step back order" for the soviet ?

[LiquidSky]

If the Axis own any of:

(69,54) Rostov
(75,36) Millerowo
(65,6) Voronezh
(104,36) Stalingrad
(64,78) Krasnador

And the Strategic position is 0.

Then it checks to see if you loss any vp's since the last turn. If so, you lose prestige.

Since the city list is pretty much for certain, it really comes down to your strategic position.

Your strategic position drops if:

Your current vp's are 5 greater (or more) then your average vp loss (in the victory report),
AND you pass a 22% random check.

So it seems to me that sooner or later, the Soviets will suffer a No-Retreat order and suffer for it...

[Keunert]

I got two times prestige from Rostow, the first time 20 points and later about 16 points. Holding to Rostow meant holding you without much losses. I couldn't do this anywhere else. I spend the prestige points by misclicking on the cash in prestige card once.

The 'no step back' order came some time after losing Stalingrad.

[olivier34]

A very good thing to hold Rostov that long. 36 pps, it is huge.

[Vic]

Did you guys feel the Soviets were getting enough reinforcements to hold the axis?
Personally i feel (also in my own experiences) the Soviets could use some extra 20K infantry a month during July,Aug,Sep,Oct. Just to give them that little extra.

Let me know your thoughts please. And thanks again for the great AAR. Its not only fun to read, but it is also useful in fine tuning the game.

Best,
Vic

[rominet]

ORIGINAL: Vic

Did you guys feel the Soviets were getting enough reinforcements to hold the axis?
Personally i feel (also in my own experiences) the Soviets could use some extra 20K infantry a month during July,Aug,Sep,Oct. Just to give them that little extra.

Let me know your thoughts please. And thanks again for the great AAR. Its not only fun to read, but it is also useful in fine tuning the game.

Best,
Vic

IMHO, a total of 80K extra troops for Russia is not enough to give any chance to the russian player to hold after september.
But i think any additional russian replacement should come from september to december and not before.
The Axis may have a chance to break through the russian lines in july and august.
And from a historical point of view, it took many weeks to the Soviet High command to understand that the german offensive in the south was the real one's and not a diversion of a great offensive towards Moscow.
They really began to send a lot of troops in the south from september and not from july.

I think 40K or 50K troops in addition per month from september to november or december should be better.

[Keunert]

it is really hard to say Vic. In retrospect i think it would have been possible for Olivier to break through in the south even if i played better. And by breakthrough i think of Olivier taking Tiblissi and cutting off my entire southern front. if he then moves everything north Olivier would have been able to break through there too. so i tend to agree that soviet reiforcements should be higher from september on.

another problem is the low german loss. Oliver had something around 100'000 men lost. this is too low at this stage of the campaign. i have the feeling that some german commanders just have to many and too good cards at hand. even in the best of circumstances Olivier managed to push me out if cities or forts behind rivers without much losses. that's quite a contrast to DC1: a well positioned unit could really do harm.

[Bonners]

ORIGINAL: rominet

ORIGINAL: Vic

Did you guys feel the Soviets were getting enough reinforcements to hold the axis?
Personally i feel (also in my own experiences) the Soviets could use some extra 20K infantry a month during July,Aug,Sep,Oct. Just to give them that little extra.

Let me know your thoughts please. And thanks again for the great AAR. Its not only fun to read, but it is also useful in fine tuning the game.

Best,
Vic

IMHO, a total of 80K extra troops for Russia is not enough to give any chance to the russian player to hold after september.
But i think any additional russian replacement should come from september to december and not before.
The Axis may have a chance to break through the russian lines in july and august.
And from a historical point of view, it took many weeks to the Soviet High command to understand that the german offensive in the south was the real one's and not a diversion of a great offensive towards Moscow.
They really began to send a lot of troops in the south from september and not from july.

I think 40K or 50K troops in addition per month from september to november or december should be better.

This sounds about right to me as well. I dont reckon the Soviet replacements should be too high in the early part of the game, but the build up should be higher later on. Maybe tweak it a bit for the next update? As above, earliest would be late August, but probably early September for extra Soviet replacements.

As a counterpoint I may put up a few stats from my first game against a human opponent. Admittedly he is more experienced than me, but about 6 turns in and the Soviet forces are still stable in number and I havent got a breakthrough on any part of the front. In fact, I'm expecting to open my next turn to see a severely depleted motorized division, his airforce has kicked my butt and I've also managed to lose my fleets (although that was admittedly a deliberate gamble on my part). So the game can go differently in the early turns if the Soviet player has a bit more experience than the Axis player.

When I get home tonight I'll put a bit of a potted AAR up of the first few turns along with some overall stats, just to show that it can go badly wrong for the Axis player early on.

[olivier34]

Except Rostov (and Stalingrad could have been such a very difficult place to take), all the cities that I have taken were first surrounded. Others were vacated by Keunert (Maybe the soviet player could sacrifice some men to force the axis player to use his arty and launch an assault to the city, That would have increase the german losses).
About the balance of the game the soviet reinforcement should follow the historic one (Rominet seems to have the numbers. More reinforcement in September...) but something that need to be analyse is the german oil reserves. I thought I would have to freeze part of my front because of a lack of oil. It did not happen...Why ? I have use my air units a lot, moved my tanks and troops every turn...
Another thing, the pps that a general can have. The amount should maybe have a maximum value (around 20 for instance). Von Manstein was abble to play his "freedom of action card" three times in a row. The results are devastating. We are in october, Keunert may launch another offensive against the 6A. ALL the german generals have around 25 pps...

[Keunert]

that's quite an advantage for the germans, their generals tend to have a higher command points production.

i figured that when i keep troops in the city, you will have them sit there until they are completely out of supply and will fall without much of a fight. if i cannot support a hex with supply there will be no losses for the attacker if he does it right.

another soviet disadvantage is the reinforcement placement. if your front crumbles and you place new troops to close gaps it would be great to have the ability to chose HQ before placing. if you reassign them your lose readiness, pp and command points. quite a disadvantage for the defender. and on retreat you quite often get messy situations. (Vic already said he will look into this.)

my guess is that it doesn't need that much to improve the soviet situation.

[olivier34]

Just enter into Baku...seems that the game is over.[:(]..This scenario needs certainly to be more balance but I have had a great time playing it [:)]. Thanks Keunert !
But I am also a little sad... I would have enjoy to see the red army take the initiative and in 43 take his revenge.

[LiquidSky]

I would have liked to see that as well. I havent played far enough in a campaign yet to guage whether the Russians need more troops or not. I suspect they need more supply, although my opponent is quite fanatical at trying to save Russian units from destruction, so has more russian units on the map to feed.

Did the Autumn mud slow the axis down any? Did winter effect the German attack?

[olivier34]

I have not encounter so many rainy turns in September. The first snow did not bother much, I had not to conduct difficult attacks at this time. Could have been a problem because the snow increase the entrenchment value. But the snow was not in the plains except north of the DON.

[LiquidSky]

I am thinking of adding an event that effects German AP's (the way Russians lose AP's to command failure) during heavy precipitation turns. It can be as random so sometimes units won't be effected at all, and others may be heavily effected. Maybe even during snow as well. I just have to come up with a random percentage chance per HQ, and a range of AP loss....as it is right now, the Russians lose between 20-70 AP's when they suffer a loss.

[Keunert]

i just send the turn, so far no auto win. maybe it needs you to stay an entire turn in the city.

[olivier34]

Just opened the turn...game over...one of the oil field was starting to produce for the axis. I will do a screenshot of that. Two cossacks rgts had join too. We invite General Liziukov to join us as well.
Liquidsky, the heavy precipitation turns are enough difficult, don't you think ?
Maybe we could see sometimes two or three turns in a row with heavy precipitation (not in July or August).

[Keunert]

yes it's over, thanks a lot Olivier for an entertaining game!
you played very well!