HITMAN202 versus THEPRO's Sean is welcomed ... Sillyflower is allowed.

[cpt flam]

I think that you must look the moral of your bombers.
You will have probably to go by the reserve to recover, otherwise things will be worst.
If you have some problems you can even go from bombers to FB (actually Me110).
I made it with night bombers [;)]

[sillyflower]

ORIGINAL: HITMAN202



Sillyflower, hindsight is 20/20. But I will remind you that our contest (this is no longer just a game to me, my opponenets) is far from being decided. I'm not saying I'll win (or even have a good chance of a draw ...Pelton and I are discussing his consultation fees)
but a few hundred extra destroyed air-frames means diddly-squat.

Correct on all counts. You need to buy Pelton's mod: the one he used against MT [;)]

[sillyflower]

ORIGINAL: vandev

Reserve activation can be very dangerous for the soviet in 41. As axis you must stop the single division hasty attack and instead target higher odds deliberate assaults. The key to this is you must have enough pioneers and artillery to support your attacks. I take 50% of army group south artillery and almost all engineer's as an example and give them to army group center. If you grind the soviet without proper su commitment, then you will suffer accordingly.

vandev

what it is doing is greatly reducing the number of attacks Hitperson can make in the north and centre, and a couple of holds against big attacks can make a big difference as happened to AGC in T12. I don't think Hitperson has used even deliberate single div attacks in these areas for several turns. Of course, reserve use can be counterproductive for the soviet in '41 (or the German in '43 onwards) if not done well enough. That applies to every tactic. This AAR will show how well/badly I'm using it.

Tip for soviet players: don't neglect refit for reserves. Get low strength units (including all unready ones if you can)or ones with low morale,especially those which have higher experience than morale, out of the way to refit in the rear.

[HITMAN202]

Since a conversation about the air war was started by Sillyflower (beginning with an unfair and mean spirited comparision of my management of the Luftwaffe with the Japanese's use of the kamikaze ... well to me he was heading in that direction) I'm going to throw out some of my thoughts on it.

You don't see players talking a lot about the air war because most feel like it's 1) very complicated (just looking at the Air Doctrine Screen is intimidating), 2) so many counters (and I have never played the Soviets) with, in many cases, their inclusion in the game is for historical accurracy (ie. they have no impact on the game itself) and 3) you already got so much to learn.

When I first started the game I read a lot of Q-Ball's comments (he's now a WITP devotee) and he often admitted ignorance to the air war. In fact Sillyflower, who has no small opinion of his expertise in WITE, the supreme commander of the Sovlet's in this AAR, admits to letting Blephegor conduct the air war.

My approach to the Axis air war has been based on Ketza's writings (heresies ???? and he has yet come to my defense) and a view most have for their undergarments (diapers in my line of work Sillyflower) .... you use them until they're worn out.

[sillyflower]

Airwar is relatively simple in execution though can requires disproportionate micro management relative its importance. Belphegor (sic; why are you still obsessed with eyelids?) is much more organised than I am with it.

Probably the only exception to the above is how a few skilled Germans use/abuse(delete to choice) it purely as an airborne petrol supply network in '41.

Learning one has to allocate individual pilots in WITPAE has put me off that game for life. Hardly a job for the theatre commander.

I make no criticism whatever of your post T1 use of LW nor do I regard your T1 as anything more than a failed experiment.

[HITMAN202]

TURN 13.....TURN 13....TURN 13

Each game tends to take on a character of its own starting turn 10 or so and so mine with THEPROS. (The character is not in reference to THEPROS supreme commander, Sillyflower, nor, Blephepor, to my ineptness in responding to your patient guidance in figuring out the problem in our E-mails this weekend.)

Back to the air war. Here's the status of my fighter force ...the LW has bled but these dudes are impressive on TURN 13.







Their experience is at 90 average and morale 97. Their numbers are at near maximum.



Question ... At what fatigue level should you rest a air unit ???

[HITMAN202]

The Finnish sector I've been purposely silent about. Sillyflower did some legerdemain prior to turn 4 that led to me isolating zippo divisions. I've never experienced that before. Also he established the "standard" northern defensive line. I have hit it a number of times (and have had a number of helds) and eventually displaced the southern most hex in the D-line. Why ??? Like all good commanders, you got to do something (even if it's bad.)





This turn I displaced the northern most hex. So we will see what happens.

[HITMAN202]

AGN....AGN....AGN

Attacks across the Neva can be bloody, so I had 18 units available to do the job (including the studs I,II,and XXIII Corp) and a handful of others, but was surprised. I only faced a weak level 3 fort and easily carried the hex





The second attack west of the captured hex barely lost 1.9-1 and if it had fallen could have made a deliberate attack on Nestivets. I did a foolish hasty (looking for snake-eyes.)

[HITMAN202]

The rest AGN

[HITMAN202]

AGC in three screen shots (will eventually upgrade to better pics ie bigger).

[HITMAN202]

[HITMAN202]

I failed to show the fort strength in the middle screen in AGC, but most are level 2. I'm surprised that their strenth is down.

I finally started what I should done beginning on the 7th or 8th turn .... concentrate all the Pz on one edge of the fort network and chew off little pieces (isolate.) I'll be bumping into the Oka soon, but at least I'm doing the right thing. A good lesson for me in future games (SLY [:D][:D]

[HITMAN202]

AGS.....AGS.....AGS

THEPROS are still retreating, but I made an aggressive move that will pose problems if they stand fast at Stalino. I think that they will continue to fall back towards Rostov.

[HITMAN202]

[HITMAN202]

And THEPROS are abandoning the Crimea

[HITMAN202]

And the Numbers





So turn 13... here's my thoughts.

1) Finland... next theatre

2) AGN... Leningrad will fall with around 100,000 dudes or so. The Finns will hold on the Volkov during the blizzard. Done with the help of 4 Pz divisions from AGC. I think the transfer was wise, because I doubt Leningrad would have fallen . Why ??? Since the 5th turn their presence helped (in my estimation) take an average of 1 and 1/2 additional hexes a turn. So over 8 turns (5th-12 th turns), 12 hexes were captured that would otherwise have become stronger forts, more difficult to take, more holds, giving THEPROS more motivation to hold it, and so on.

To face the blizzard without the Finnish help in AGN would be a potential disaster. I think that was the key factor in Pelton-MT AAR, for Pelton to retreat so far back in '41 (so far Pelton-MT gets my vote for the 2013 WITE Academy Award for best drama/comedy)


3) AGC... I'll be about 5 or so hexes from Moscow. Have time to build some D-line for late blizzard. I'm thinking about starting to build a fort network, with some fortifications, 18 or so hexes back. I'm playing to run like a rabbit come blizzard. I prefer running to having Sillyflower smile as he isolates division after division. Any thoughts.


4) AGS....It's going to get interesting the next few turns. I have a good Pz force and good position that will probably force THEPROS to reterat and give me a lot of space in AGS; space to play with come blizzard.


Casualties 380,000 for me. 1,950,000 for the Soviets (about 130 killed divisions). Not a good ratio. But this turn I have isolated Soviets in all three army groups for the first time over that last 8 turns. Not great but helps the morale. [:)][:)][:)]

So turn 13... I'm ok ... my grades ??? 1) Finnish D- (I didn't do anything bad, just good play by THEPROS) 2) AGN .. B or B+, still stuff to do, 3) AGC a C or C- (wish I had started to chew on the edge of the Moscow fort network sooner, and 4) AGS could get interesting, maybe a B ??? But the reality is if I'm facing this tuff of a D in the fall '41, I'm not going to do a lot in '42 and the Soviets get stronger and stronger...[X(][X(][X(][X(]

[hugh04]

The best blizzard defense is dead soviets in the fall. Your highest priority at the moment should be destroying soviet manpower. In my most recent game I had to make a decision on turn 13/14. That decision was whether to really try and take moscow. My opponent, who is atleast as good as yours, had a defense between rzchev and kaluga that looks like the one you are facing. My conclusion was that a direct attack was not going to do enough damage so I shifted to widen out the front and go for pockets and taking space that i could give back in blizzard.

You really need to close to the sea of azov in AGS. If you cannot bounce the soviets out of Stalino and pocket alot of troops there while anchoring your flank on the sea, winter will see you pushed back to the southern dnieper. Not neccesarily bad but something to consider. I would consider sending your turn 13 panzer reiforcements here. May be too late to shift power from any extra panzers in the north to stalino. You really need to inflict another 1 million soviet casualties by the end of turn 17. Plan on and carry out a snow offensive as well. I see a slight advantage for the soviets here, but you can make up for it with a good finish to the summer.

vandev

[HITMAN202]

A million more casualties ??? Tell that to THEPROS. I've been aggressive from the opening bell (boxing) and haven't been close to landing a real good punch. The German player has to isolate units to get over the 3 mill mark and in my case, there hasn't been a lot of isolation opportunities. My aim is to get to 2.5-2.7 casualties by blizzard and to grab as much space as possible. Your opponent is at least as good as THEPROS ???? Not if you have inflicted as many casualties as you imply.

Playing top-notch opponenets is the best way to learn WITE. THEPROS are a class act (duo, tag team,... no the ODDCOUPLE !!!) and I'm fortunate that they are eager to give insightful advice. How can you not like a guy (Sillyflower) who has such a good eye for female anatomy (those are world class legs and posterior) and attraction for women who have a gusto for stamen (I don't think she's looking for a lost set of Keys). He's a sly fox, isn't he. [;)][;)][;)]

[hugh04]

Thr Pro's seem to be playing a very good strategic game. Massing in front of moscow, stalino and leningrad and very light elsewhere. The axis now has to confront this fact. One thing you have said is that you have not had the opportunity to isolate units. Either because of retreats or very strong line at leningrad. It is cleary hard (impossible) to isolate soviets in any meaningful way if they are willing to retreat 4 or so hexes every turn. However they will fight for leningrad, the approaches to moscow and anywhere they decide too. What you need to try and do is isolate 3 or 4 hexes as you are assualting a prepared line. If the soviet is stacking 3 high, 4 hexes equals 12 divisions and possible 150 thousand men. Forget the grand pocket, go for smaller but dense pockets. This means combining the infantry grinding fight to take one frontline hex with armor advancing doing stacked deliberate attacks into the second line. Infantry and armor working togething (both doing deliberate assualts) can up your casualty count. You must manage your su's to have the needed artillery and engineer's. Its not easy, but it can work. At least work alittle.

vandev

[HITMAN202]

I agree with your thoughts, but against THEPROS it doesn't work most of the time. They kill (displace) enveloping units with alacracity (in both senses of the word.) The Mp's needed for Pz units to pass thru 2-3 zones of control (the forts are usually adjacent) leads to only 1-2 units able to complete the isolation. They are adjacent (almost always) to 2 or 3 hexes. THEPROs muster counter attacks from these hexes with 70-80,000 quality troops, including units triggered by Reserve Activation. It's a blood bath with these units routed by 3-1,4-1,5-1 attacks.

On the 6 th or 7 th turn I isolated 2 strong infantry with two motorized div with 93 and 90 morale. They were forced to retreated following a almost 4-1 attack by 5 divisions and the resultant Soviet position was stronger defensively than at the start of the turn !!! No bull. These suckers are good (I've got to be derogatory, it's the only way I can hurt them, and even then they probably relish my insults !!!). The Reserve Activation they have refined is so impressive I've reported them to the authorities for assault and battery. I'm being ignored.

So I've mastered (and I think it has frustrated Sillyflower) tactics to not so exposed them. Even still, two or three turns ago Belphegor (I'm learning how to spell the name, Sean.. your colleague has mercilessly insulted my innocent oversight too many times) displaced two Pz div and their HQ; putting them out of action for two turns.

I agree with the tactic you described vandev, but it produces too much pain; even with it's occasional success.

Now I may be overlooking a better tactic, but I don't think so.

I appreciate your advice. It offers a different perspective.