1.07.12 supply bug?

[morvael]

In private beta I would have the ability to upload new .exe and you could be playing fixed version in 5 minutes. When things go public I have to use the official channels and it may take some time before the fix reaches you. It's a minor problem if Pavel can post a hotfix, if it requires a new installer build from Matrix then it may take days(?).

Fixing was easy, delivery is now the problem

[Erik Rutins]

Morvael, FYI we can provide saves for server games if we know which game to check, for future reference.

[morvael]

Ok, this time I managed to recreate the problem myself. Whom am I to PM if I need to pull a save?

[Flaviusx]

Gee whiz, Dominic, that was fast. That supply bug could've been a head scratcher for weeks...

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: morvael
Ok, this time I managed to recreate the problem myself. Whom am I to PM if I need to pull a save?

Joel and I can both get a save file for you as needed.

Regards,

- Erik

[morvael]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Gee whiz, Dominic, that was fast. That supply bug could've been a head scratcher for weeks...

This is now my own code, so I'm not easily lost in it.

[Oberst_Klink]

ORIGINAL: morvael

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Gee whiz, Dominic, that was fast. That supply bug could've been a head scratcher for weeks...

This is now my own code, so I'm not easily lost in it.

So, there's a bug and I thought Pelton was just 'moaning'; encountered the same bloody issue at an actual PBEM; stuck with AG North; all ports cleared and Tallinn not even counting as supply source... will there be a hotfix of some sort?

Klink, Oberst

[morvael]

You can always provide a save or some screenshots. If in your case it's about port supply then it may be some other problem.

[Peltonx]

morvael to be honest your the only person that is not an ass hat when I find a bug.

I tested witw for less then 30 mins and found several bugs, but I guess I just don't fit in with the crew and found the hole exp to be a waste of my time.

I just wait until it comes out and find some day one.

I have played this game 30+ times and the opening 100+ I know when something is not right and morvael your the only one who looks into it first.

All the others are ass hats and assume I am wrong before even looking into the data.

and Bozo there is something wrong or WAD (but new) with them combat odds.

[&o]morveal[&o][&o][&o]

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink

ORIGINAL: morvael

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Gee whiz, Dominic, that was fast. That supply bug could've been a head scratcher for weeks...

This is now my own code, so I'm not easily lost in it.

So, there's a bug and I thought Pelton was just 'moaning'; encountered the same bloody issue at an actual PBEM; stuck with AG North; all ports cleared and Tallinn not even counting as supply source... will there be a hotfix of some sort?

Klink, Oberst

I have been right allot the last yr and 2by3 and most everyone wrong

Just the simple fact of the matter

[:)]

[Bozo_the_Clown]

morvael to be honest your the only person that is not an ass hat when I find a bug.

All the others are ass hats and assume I am wrong before even looking into the data.

and Bozo there is something wrong or WAD (but new) with them combat odds.

This is just plain rude. You are lashing out at people for no reason. Just rude and offensive.

I think I know what's going on in this forum. 2x3 and Slitherine are using you as a free beta tester. That's why you get away with stuff like this over and over again.

And why didn't you report the moral bug of 1.07.08 you took advantage of in at least 3 games? You surely didn't miss that one with all your 1000s of hours of game play.

[morvael]

ORIGINAL: Pelton

and Bozo there is something wrong or WAD (but new) with them combat odds.

Yes, there are changes to combat - as you know - infantry firing more, grenades working, HEAT working, correct types allowing use/protection of heavy/light AT guns etc. What's most important is that final combat CV is perfectly in line with initial combat CV (when attacker wins the attacker's final CV is usually shown as higher than initial because of the attacker's x2 bonus that the defender doesn't have; defender CV is lower as he failed some rolls at given range and the ratio was enough to call it a day). With access to the save I could have checked expected combat CV values to see if they were really pushing the limits of luck or very close, but I don't thing anything is fundamentally wrong. This is the updated model working as it should. I would expect Soviets with 4:1 men ratio, 4:1 gun ratio and 2:1 tank ratio (and especially 4:1 element ratio) to win a combat. The rest is of course in the retreat losses, and this wasn't changed.

[morvael]

Unfortunately in this combat model CV is very random so it is almost unconnected from the sustained losses when determining final result. Therefore, even though in combat Germans were killing 4x the number Russians were killing, with some bad/good rolls on both sides at one of dozen ranges at which combat is fought, the attacker had enough CV to force a retreat.

[Michael T]

Bugs aside morvael, have you or anyone else considered how the *fixes* will impact the rule tweaking toward play balance over the past 3 years which were based on the bugged logistical system.

I mean on the face of it the logistics fixes will hamper Axis rates of advance in 41, subsequently Red Army loss rate declines, so Red Army gets even stronger sooner than earlier versions. End result: Game swings even further toward the Soviets than it already is.

Is some kind of weakening of the Reds going to be needed now in 41?

BTW this makes the runaway even more lucrative an option for Ivan.

[morvael]

Changes are so numerous that it's hard to tell. Some fixes work in German favour, some in Soviet. Soviet truck use should be higher in 41-42, including higher truck losses, which means Red Army 2.0 will have even more trouble to move at speed. German units with attached SUs will have more fuel so they will be faster than before. On the other hand overall supplies may be lower. Panzerfausts will work miracles in late war (AI vs AI Vistula To Berlin Soviet AFV losses went from 1900 to 8500, lowered to 6500 by introducing 50-100% variable HEAT penetration instead of constant 100% penetration), high quality German squads will be able to kill more with their LMGs and grenades (though the Soviets will make more use of their PPSh). The planned changes to production should save Axis Minors from starving in 43+.

When I make changes I never think about specific side, I just look at the general logic behind the code. But the players themselves will have to find out exact balance shift, doing 30-40 AI vs AI tests doesn't reveal that as good as many, many players matches.

[Michael T]

Well I appreciate the effort as I am sure everyone does. However one of the reasons I had to have a break from the game was the constant changing of rules etc. I thought .13 might be near the final patch. But it appears we might be entering another phase of tweaking to get it right. Not that it matters to the WITE world but personally I will be holding off on starting another game until the butterfly effects of these changes are known or compensated for. I have done my time in the trenches for bug hunts. I really just want to play a finalised product now.

Thank you morvael [:)]

[Joel Billings]

To me, the biggest changes in the last several versions are the morale changes, which I believe go against the Soviets in the first 2 years (making a German 42 offensive much more dangerous) and helps the German retain morale in the later years. This could be huge and might justify players using the mild first winter. However, the game is so different depending on your skill level and whether you are playing 2-player or against the AI that it's really impossible to say exactly how all of the changes will impact play. All I can say is that with WitE you have to be one that enjoys the trip as much as the destination. For all the nerfing of the Germans we've been accused of, I sure see a lot of AARs where the German players are doing just fine (of course I'd love to see some matches between expert players to see how the game is coming out now).

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Bozo_the_Clown

morvael to be honest your the only person that is not an ass hat when I find a bug.

All the others are ass hats and assume I am wrong before even looking into the data.

and Bozo there is something wrong or WAD (but new) with them combat odds.

This is just plain rude. You are lashing out at people for no reason. Just rude and offensive.

I think I know what's going on in this forum. 2x3 and Slitherine are using you as a free beta tester. That's why you get away with stuff like this over and over again.

And why didn't you report the moral bug of 1.07.08 you took advantage of in at least 3 games? You surely didn't miss that one with all your 1000s of hours of game play.

1. I did not know about it.
2. Why did the people that new about the guards morale bug report that?

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: morvael

Unfortunately in this combat model CV is very random so it is almost unconnected from the sustained losses when determining final result. Therefore, even though in combat Germans were killing 4x the number Russians were killing, with some bad/good rolls on both sides at one of dozen ranges at which combat is fought, the attacker had enough CV to force a retreat.

I messed with the combat more H v H

I think it is working as designed, losses on both sides are higher with more SHC routes.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Michael T

Bugs aside morvael, have you or anyone else considered how the *fixes* will impact the rule tweaking toward play balance over the past 3 years which were based on the bugged logistical system.

I mean on the face of it the logistics fixes will hamper Axis rates of advance in 41, subsequently Red Army loss rate declines, so Red Army gets even stronger sooner than earlier versions. End result: Game swings even further toward the Soviets than it already is.

Is some kind of weakening of the Reds going to be needed now in 41?

BTW this makes the runaway even more lucrative an option for Ivan.

MT the fuel is less, but not really to bad. You will do fine. Instead of TKO's in 41 they come in 1942.

Moscow is a key, but morale and high combat losses can also = victory in 1942.

I believe that Taking Moscow is not a must as it was before, that my personal opinion based on my very short testing.