What a day in the city of Ottawa

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: AbwehrX

Are political topics of this nature allowed now?

Indeed. It seems so. [:(]

[GaryChildress]

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

Willful ignorance is stupid. Islam TEACHES that only Islam is allowed as Government and religion. It teaches that killing unbelievers is to be done, it teaches that lying to unbelievers is acceptable. It's holy book teaches war and murder of unbelievers and the end result is the death or conversion of all non Muslims. Currently thgere are two schools of thought on how that will come to pass. One is to out breed us and win by assimilating our cultures through immigration and conversion by numbers, The other is that holy war must be waged to destroy all unbelievers.

Failure to understand your enemies and the threats they pose is a fatal flaw and weakness.

This goes to far. [:(]

I am sad to say that I think this thread should be locked!

I don't know. I haven't seen Twotribes post again. Maybe he's given up the nonsense and figured out on his own why prejudice is a bad thing and why we should punish individuals who are responsible for crimes and not whole groups. Hopefully he's learned something from this thread. [:)]

[Aurelian]

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

Willful ignorance is stupid. Islam TEACHES that only Islam is allowed as Government and religion. It teaches that killing unbelievers is to be done, it teaches that lying to unbelievers is acceptable. It's holy book teaches war and murder of unbelievers and the end result is the death or conversion of all non Muslims. Currently thgere are two schools of thought on how that will come to pass. One is to out breed us and win by assimilating our cultures through immigration and conversion by numbers, The other is that holy war must be waged to destroy all unbelievers.

Failure to understand your enemies and the threats they pose is a fatal flaw and weakness.

This goes to far. [:(]

I am sad to say that I think this thread should be locked!

I don't know. I haven't seen Twotribes post again. Maybe he's given up the nonsense and figured out on his own why prejudice is a bad thing and why we should punish individuals who are responsible for crimes and not whole groups. Hopefully he's learned something from this thread. [:)]

It would take an extraordinary event for a bigot to abandon bigotry. And even then, that rarely happens.

[Twotribes]

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

ORIGINAL: Orm



This goes to far. [:(]

I am sad to say that I think this thread should be locked!

I don't know. I haven't seen Twotribes post again. Maybe he's given up the nonsense and figured out on his own why prejudice is a bad thing and why we should punish individuals who are responsible for crimes and not whole groups. Hopefully he's learned something from this thread. [:)]

It would take an extraordinary event for a bigot to abandon bigotry. And even then, that rarely happens.

So now a person that recognizes evil and danger for what it is is a bigot ehh? MILLIONS of Muslims support terrorism, Millions more quietly allow it to continue. Thousands arm themselves and kill in Allah's name. Care to provide us with an explanation for that behavior? Couldn't possibly be because the Holy Koran TEACHES murder mayhem and death to unbelievers right?

[gradenko2k]

So now a person that recognizes evil and danger for what it is is a bigot ehh? MILLIONS of Muslims support terrorism, Millions more quietly allow it to continue. Thousands arm themselves and kill in Allah's name. Care to provide us with an explanation for that behavior? Couldn't possibly be because the Holy Koran TEACHES murder mayhem and death to unbelievers right?

You assume that the people who are arming themselves and engaging in murder and violence would not do so absent of Islam, or even just absent of Islam's more radical teachings.

The grievances that these people have exist in spite of religion, not because of it. It's not as if Buddhism or Taoism or Atheism or Christianity is any sort of balm against the socioeconomic pressure endured by a region that's been as exploited as the Middle East.

[Twotribes]

ORIGINAL: gradenko_2000

So now a person that recognizes evil and danger for what it is is a bigot ehh? MILLIONS of Muslims support terrorism, Millions more quietly allow it to continue. Thousands arm themselves and kill in Allah's name. Care to provide us with an explanation for that behavior? Couldn't possibly be because the Holy Koran TEACHES murder mayhem and death to unbelievers right?

You assume that the people who are arming themselves and engaging in murder and violence would not do so absent of Islam, or even just absent of Islam's more radical teachings.

The grievances that these people have exist in spite of religion, not because of it. It's not as if Buddhism or Taoism or Atheism or Christianity is any sort of balm against the socioeconomic pressure endured by a region that's been as exploited as the Middle East.

So explain why European Muslims born raised taught and trained in places like France and Britain and of course western Muslims like Canada join execute and do terrorism? Why if they have not been "oppressed" do they do it?

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

ORIGINAL: Orm



This goes to far. [:(]

I am sad to say that I think this thread should be locked!

I don't know. I haven't seen Twotribes post again. Maybe he's given up the nonsense and figured out on his own why prejudice is a bad thing and why we should punish individuals who are responsible for crimes and not whole groups. Hopefully he's learned something from this thread. [:)]

It would take an extraordinary event for a bigot to abandon bigotry. And even then, that rarely happens.

If that's bigotry then count me as a bigot. I don't expect Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, or Christians to be flying jets into our skyscrapers.

What kind of event would it take for a useful idiot to abandon his idiocy? (Apparently 9/11 wasn't enough).

You're engaging in pure semantics. Ok, if what ISIS is practicing isn't Islam then come up with some other name for whatever these Islamic fascists are hawking - then that's what the war on terror is about. They are at war with us and aim to impose their vile beliefs on us by force - or exterminate us. And they will be happy to spend a millennium doing so, if that's what it takes.

If we value our descendants' future we have to come up with a strategy that will defeat them, and pretending that these are merely criminal acts is loony.

[warspite1]

.

[gradenko2k]

So explain why European Muslims born raised taught and trained in places like France and Britain and of course western Muslims like Canada join execute and do terrorism? Why if they have not been "oppressed" do they do it?

There are in fact people who are willing to fight for causes that would not otherwise directly affect them.

[Chijohnaok2]

ORIGINAL: gradenko_2000

So explain why European Muslims born raised taught and trained in places like France and Britain and of course western Muslims like Canada join execute and do terrorism? Why if they have not been "oppressed" do they do it?

There are in fact people who are willing to fight for causes that would not otherwise directly affect them.

OK.

So then what is their motivation?
If its not because they were "oppressed" or were subject to economic pressure, and its not (as if some have claimed) a motivation by Islam, then what it their motivation to travel to Syria or Iraq and fight on the side of a group (ISIS) whose aims are to impose their strict (sharia) beliefs on others?

When one fights for a cause, its normally because they have something in common with, or share in the beliefs of the cause that they are fighting for.

[danlongman]

What upsets me sometimes is people who were born to Jewish or Christian
families in Western Europe or North America make judgements of others
based on the lofty moral state that they were born into through no actions
or their own. This kind of unthinking tribalism is the root of a lot of
evil. When I see the comments of the right wing christian type bigots
in my society I get the feeling that these are the very same kind of people who embrace
the jihad in Mulsim countries. Violent intolerance is a religion all it's
own and it can hide inside any other religion. People forget that their religion
and their culture are overwhelming derived from who their parents were and where they
were born. It is not some gift of superior thinking or intellect that others
lack by nature. Some of our friends here in North Am would be perfectly content
in taking part, at least verbally, in the jihad if the sandal was on the other foot.
I know a lot of people first hand who would have gleefully joined Hitler in his
crusade against communism if they had been born in Germany instead of USA!
(They had neat uniforms, armbands and cool tanks!!!!!!)
Where you were born does not automatically make you and yours superior or inferior people.
There are many different ways to slaughter or oppress innocents to further your political aim.
Take a look at my sig. My birth here has clearly lofted Canada to a much higher plain of
morals and intellectual righteousness. How could it be otherwise?

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: chijohnaok

ORIGINAL: gradenko_2000

So explain why European Muslims born raised taught and trained in places like France and Britain and of course western Muslims like Canada join execute and do terrorism? Why if they have not been "oppressed" do they do it?

There are in fact people who are willing to fight for causes that would not otherwise directly affect them.

OK.

So then what is their motivation?
If its not because they were "oppressed" or were subject to economic pressure, and its not (as if some have claimed) a motivation by Islam, then what it their motivation to travel to Syria or Iraq and fight on the side of a group (ISIS) whose aims are to impose their strict (sharia) beliefs on others?

When one fights for a cause, its normally because they have something in common with, or share in the beliefs of the cause that they are fighting for.

.

[gradenko2k]

OK.

So then what is their motivation?
If its not because they were "oppressed" or were subject to economic pressure, and its not (as if some have claimed) a motivation by Islam, then what it their motivation to travel to Syria or Iraq and fight on the side of a group (ISIS) whose aims are to impose their strict (sharia) beliefs on others?

When one fights for a cause, its normally because they have something in common with, or share in the beliefs of the cause that they are fighting for.

You said it yourself - they share a belief in the cause being fought for. You do not need to be personally oppressed to want to help others whom you believe are being oppressed themselves.

[Chijohnaok2]

ORIGINAL: danlongman

What upsets me sometimes is people who were born to Jewish or Christian
families in Western Europe or North America make judgements of others
based on the lofty moral state that they were born into through no actions
or their own. This kind of unthinking tribalism is the root of a lot of
evil. When I see the comments of the right wing christian type bigots
in my society I get the feeling that these are the very same kind of people who embrace
the jihad in Mulsim countries. Violent intolerance is a religion all it's
own and it can hide inside any other religion. People forget that their religion
and their culture are overwhelming derived from who their parents were and where they
were born. It is not some gift of superior thinking or intellect that others
lack by nature. Some of our friends here in North Am would be perfectly content
in taking part, at least verbally, in the jihad if the sandal was on the other foot.
I know a lot of people first hand who would have gleefully joined Hitler in his
crusade against communism if they had been born in Germany instead of USA!
(They had neat uniforms, armbands and cool tanks!!!!!!)
Where you were born does not automatically make you and yours superior or inferior people.
There are many different ways to slaughter or oppress innocents to further your political aim.
Take a look at my sig. My birth here has clearly lofted Canada to a much higher plain of
morals and intellectual righteousness. How could it be otherwise?

I believe that people should be judged by their actions.

A person/group may advocate for their beliefs.
Do they do so peacefully or violently?

How many Christians/westerns run around beheading people, suicide bomb others, use force to impose their set of beliefs on the lives of others, and will use violence against or kill those who refuse to submit?

Now ask the same questions of those running around beheading people, suicide bombing others, use force to impose their set of beliefs on the lives of others, and will use violence against or kill those who refuse to submit to their goal to impose Islam on others?

Read the newspapers.
Listen to the news.

Use statistics to evaluate who is doing what.

Judge others by their actions.

[GaryChildress]

ORIGINAL: gradenko_2000

OK.

So then what is their motivation?
If its not because they were "oppressed" or were subject to economic pressure, and its not (as if some have claimed) a motivation by Islam, then what it their motivation to travel to Syria or Iraq and fight on the side of a group (ISIS) whose aims are to impose their strict (sharia) beliefs on others?

When one fights for a cause, its normally because they have something in common with, or share in the beliefs of the cause that they are fighting for.

You said it yourself - they share a belief in the cause being fought for. You do not need to be personally oppressed to want to help others whom you believe are being oppressed themselves.

Honestly, I think this pretty much says it all. I don't pretend to be a guru on geo-politics but as has been pointed out almost every war has had volunteers from other lands that believe in a cause. The German Army, including the Waffen SS had an enormous number of volunteers from many places in the world. If anyone doesn't believe me you can read about it here:

http://www.feldgrau.com/main1.php?ID=7

The international brigades in the Spanish Civil War were another example (and I'm not equating them with the Waffen SS, only pointing out the truth of the matter). If anyone needs me to provide a website with that information I will do so.

[danlongman]

[/quote]

OK.

So then what is their motivation?
If its not because they were "oppressed" or were subject to economic pressure, and its not (as if some have claimed) a motivation by Islam, then what it their motivation to travel to Syria or Iraq and fight on the side of a group (ISIS) whose aims are to impose their strict (sharia) beliefs on others?

When one fights for a cause, its normally because they have something in common with, or share in the beliefs of the cause that they are fighting for.
[/quote]

Maybe they watched Fox News and felt threatened. Maybe they visited a forum like this
and saw oppression or intolerance. I don't know what makes other people work and I try not
to presume malice where ignorance will do. Some people, it seems, prefer hostile ignorance
to understanding. If a culture or a part of a culture encourages this then trouble will result.
How many Iraqis or Syrians have met a violent end this last decade or so? Because some unreliable
figures have been used there are some who refer the answer to this question to be irrelevent.
It is not zero and is in fact larger by an order of magnitude than the number of persons
killed by jihadists in the West. This does not justify jihad but should put it in perspective
unless you think they are inferior people whose lives are intrinsically worth less than
your own by virtue of where they live.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: chijohnaok

How many Christians/westerns run around beheading people, suicide bomb others, use force to impose their set of beliefs on the lives of others, and will use violence against or kill those who refuse to submit?

warspite1

I actually think you are asking that seriously....

I'm getting the %^&* out of this increasingly bizarre thread. I apologise to Matrix for getting involved in such a politically sensitive thread.

[gradenko2k]

How many Christians/westerns run around beheading people, suicide bomb others, use force to impose their set of beliefs on the lives of others, and will use violence against or kill those who refuse to submit?

Literally the only thing missing from your list that Christians have not done in contemporary times are the beheadings, and I'm still probably wrong on that, too.

[Aurelian]

Army of God (USA) anyone?
 
http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_army_of_god.html
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_of_God_(United_States)

[Twotribes]

ORIGINAL: gradenko_2000

OK.

So then what is their motivation?
If its not because they were "oppressed" or were subject to economic pressure, and its not (as if some have claimed) a motivation by Islam, then what it their motivation to travel to Syria or Iraq and fight on the side of a group (ISIS) whose aims are to impose their strict (sharia) beliefs on others?

When one fights for a cause, its normally because they have something in common with, or share in the beliefs of the cause that they are fighting for.

You said it yourself - they share a belief in the cause being fought for. You do not need to be personally oppressed to want to help others whom you believe are being oppressed themselves.

In other words the Religion, thanks for admitting it.