I give up!

[wie201]

Thanks Mike for looking into this! I posted some passages from Edward Jablonski in the "Can you say open beta" thread. Reading that (I know it's only one source, but he does site multiple actions) and looking at the results people give, it seems as if the smaller actions (less than 20-25 planes total) under 2.11 are very close to what Jablonski cites. It is the larger actions that seem to need adjusting (and not just the Zero losses).

When Major General George Kenney took over as air commander for the SW Pacific on August 4, 1942, he found that his bomber crews "frequently abandoned missions when Japanese aircraft intercepted them, fearing that a single bullet would detonate either the auxiliary fuel tanks or the bomb load, No one thought to tell them that was not neccessarily true." He also complained that the mechanics did not know the proper maintainance proceedures, leaving many planes out of action (often 50 percent). His increased leadership skills appear to have lead to the results cited in the other thread I mentioned.

Jablonski also writes that the Zero pilots "respected the big bomber (B-17), although many had been worn out by constant use."

[pasternakski]

Originally posted by Mike Wood
Hello...

The issue of Japanese fighter to Allied bomber kill ratios is one upon which we are currently working.

Hope this helps...

Michael Wood
__________________________________________________

I "hope this helps," too, and "hope the result doesn't f*ck everything up again." I like v. 2.11.

Am I the only one who is tired of all the talk and purported analysis that may, or may not, lead to improvements in the game? Is it only this much-maligned contributor who hopes that he (and his PBEM friends) can finally play a full campaign game without worrying about what the changes wrought by the most current patch will do? I have adjusted to so many changes that I had to strip down and look in the mirror last night to make sure that I was still the same stud I always was ...

If I am off base here, sorry, I'll shut up. Just wondered if anybody else out there feels the same way.

[Chiteng]

Empirisism takes time. These guys seem to be doing the best they can. That is 'my' opinion. They are alot more responsive
than EA I can tell you.

[USSMaine]

Ummmmmmm - I've had BTR since shortly after it came out and I don't know about you but when my planes sweep they sure take losses strafing enemy bases..... BoB was another story....

[Chiteng]

Try playing the Germans and placing all elements of JG-26
on one airbase. Now you can place as many flak as you wish
on that airbase. Sooner or later, usually in really bad weather,
one squadron of spitfires will lollygag on it, completely ignore
the flak and make hash out of your elite vets. There is no defense
in the game. In reality there were locations that were strictly
avoided because of heavy flak. But not in the game.
(for the purposes of strafing that is)

[SoulBlazer]

Paster, I do hope you realize how hard Matrix is working. I do wish you'd stop whining so much -- you and DP. You have been very helpfull in providing info to Matrix, but realize this is a WORK in progress. The game is fully playable now as it is -- I'm not stopping my PBEM's no matter what happens, and yes, I have both sides. I don't want to tell you to shut up -- that's too harsh and you don't deserve that. Just realize what is going on. I think 2.11 was the best patch yet (and yes, I've had acceptable losses as Japan.)

Let's give some support for Matrix here and what they are trying to do, and what we are asking of them, guys!

[USSMaine]

There is a number of guns issue that most continuing players are aware of - if the total number of guns (and ballons) is greater than 255 I think it wraps around into negative integer space - that may be what you are seeing. I know in my PBEM game going on for 12 months real time as the Axis I haven't seen many sweeps since spring (probably 3-4 months into the game). Early version especially before 1.04 had problems but they've been mostly worked out - at least to the satisfaction for many players.

Also having finished 2 campaigns against the AI, one as Allies and one as Axis I don't think the game is perfect but it does a lot of things really, really well and there is nothing like it out there that fills the gap in my opinion.

And I can sympathize with your frustation at having a ton of planes lost on the ground. Been there done that ......

[pasternakski]

Originally posted by SoulBlazer
Paster, I do hope you realize how hard Matrix is working. I do wish you'd stop whining so much -- you and DP. You have been very helpfull in providing info to Matrix, but realize this is a WORK in progress. The game is fully playable now as it is -- I'm not stopping my PBEM's no matter what happens, and yes, I have both sides. I don't want to tell you to shut up -- that's too harsh and you don't deserve that. Just realize what is going on. I think 2.11 was the best patch yet (and yes, I've had acceptable losses as Japan.)

Let's give some support for Matrix here and what they are trying to do, and what we are asking of them, guys!

I don't disagree with a single thing you have to say - except that whining is something I do not do. If you can find an example, I wish you would point it out to me.

I am not criticizing Matrix. Anyone who has read my posts understands that. Matrix is not the problem, if you catch my drift.

[SoulBlazer]

I'm afraid I don't.....I've always been on the daft side. I guess that's why I went into history and libraries. Not much in the way of creative thinking.

Let's also realize it may take a month or more before we see another patch.

[David Heath]

Originally posted by cap_and_gown


I agree. I think the contemplated change may just allow the bombers to get off scott free. They may abort, but there is nothing to stop them from coming back and doing another fighter sweep all over. Reducing their accuracy some would allow the fighters to press their attacks a little bit longer.

I should note, that if the accuracy rating was involved in the change, then this would not effect on going games. Only new games would benefit from this change.

This will not happen... Mike and myself have been working to make sure that does not happen.

[dpstafford]

Originally posted by SoulBlazer
Let's also realize it may take a month or more before we see another patch.

Do you speak for Matrix on this? If it takes a month to correct this arguably "show stopper" bug, and by that I mean US level bombers wiping out whole IJN squadrons in air-to-air combat, then the game is effectively dead.

[SoulBlazer]

And it's not doing that in my PBEM games, on both sides. Speak for yourself. No one is forcing you to use the newest patch or even play the game.

[David Heath]

Hi Everyone

I am going to say this plain and simple, you can't have it both ways. We always said we do our best to fix the bugs. We then went on to say we wanted to add features that you the players wanted. I think we can safely say we done that. We are currently on the forums fixing and making adjustments quickly. We are not making you wait 3-4 months for a patch. I am starting to think maybe we spend way to much time on the fourms.

I will DEFEND the UV playtesters to the end.... they have done a great job. Anyone who thinks we are not going to have a few bugs or issues are really out of touch.

I admit that every now and then a bug catches us and we jump to correct this. My last point is to the PBEM players WHO THE HECK TOLD YOU RUN OUT AND UPGRADE. Sorry for shouting but come on.... If you got a PBEM games going keep both UV EXE remember the installer takes the old EXE and renames it with .BAK at the end. All anyone need to do is to rename the files to say UncommonValorOld.exe and complete their current PBEM games. This would allow you to test the new version and once you feel safe move over.

I do not understand for second why anyone would be upset that we are trying to make the game better with such simple ways to make everyone happy.


David

[SoulBlazer]

Thank you David, for saying in a more more effective way what I've been trying to say all along.

[dpstafford]

Originally posted by SoulBlazer
And it's not doing that in my PBEM games, on both sides. Speak for yourself. No one is forcing you to use the newest patch or even play the game.

Speaking for myself, two of my PBEM opponents quit our games over bug/patch related problems. A third, Hanno Meier, has suspended our game pending a fix. So, if any of you guys out there who think the 2.11 game is OK, and would like to play the Japanese against me in Scenario #17, bring it on. I need the opponents.

[DSandberg]

Originally posted by David Heath
I am going to say this plain and simple, you can't have it both ways. We always said we do our best to fix the bugs. We then went on to say we wanted to add features that you the players wanted. I think we can safely say we done that.

Oh yeah, I think that is a very, very safe assumption.

As far as I am concerned, once the fix for "bomber sweeps" becomes available, I'll be of the opinion that UV is as polished and finished of a product as I've ever seen. You should be proud of yourselves.

There are always going to be a few users for whom the cup is half-empty. As a fellow developer I know that as well as anyone. I hope you won't succumb to letting those few people dictate how you feel about your efforts on this program.

- David

[dpstafford]

Originally posted by David Heath
I do not understand for second why anyone would be upset that we are trying to make the game better with such simple ways to make everyone happy.

Interesting. Yours is the first support group that I have ever seen that has essentially said, that their patches are potentially so bad that you shouldn't install them. Perhaps the update process should include a fresh disclaimer with each download.

I don't feel that is a reasonable for you to ask me to go back to a version that had all the minesweepers hit mines so I can avoid the version where all the zeros get shot down attacking bombers.
To begin negociating with a potential opponent for SIDE, SCENARIO and VERSION?!?

[USSMaine]

I for one have more than gotten my money's worth out of UV and it just keeps getting better. As with all great things sometimes the road is a little bumpy but then that's half the adventure !

I can certainly appreciate the difficulties in getting everything just right to make everybody happy. As a former software and data developer I don't envy the Matrix staff ! I truly appreciate their great work and continued efforts.

Keep up the great work Matrix!!

[Yamamoto]

Originally posted by dpstafford

Interesting. Yours is the first support group that I have ever seen that has essentially said, that their patches are potentially so bad that you shouldn't install them. Perhaps the update process should include a fresh disclaimer with each download.

Let's try and keep this in perspective, shall we? This is a game. I work for a company that makes medical devices. We recently had a stop-shipment order because of a bug found in the software. The bug produced erronious results that could have FATAL consequences. We're not talking about crashing your system. We're talking about killing a real human person. (The bug was fixed and a patch issued within 48 hours, by the way but we're still going to get raked over to coals by the FDA).

One problem I am having with the newest patch is that it seems to lock up my computer when I exit the game. Its very irritating but at least it won't kill me.

Yamamoto

[David Heath]

Originally posted by dpstafford

Interesting. Yours is the first support group that I have ever seen that has essentially said, that their patches are potentially so bad that you shouldn't install them. Perhaps the update process should include a fresh disclaimer with each download.

I don't feel that is a reasonable for you to ask me to go back to a version that had all the minesweepers hit mines so I can avoid the version where all the zeros get shot down attacking bombers.
To begin negociating with a potential opponent for SIDE, SCENARIO and VERSION?!?

With the way you twisted my words around you must be a lawyer. :rolleyes: I never said our patches are so bad don't install. What I said was if you a playing PBEM game and you want to make sure there are no ill effects because of a new patch DO NOT play the new patch with current on going PBEM games. Once you feel the patch is good upgrade fully then.

If you do not feel its reasonable then there is nothing we can do for you. You just have to wait the next patch or stop playing PBEM games.

David