Seminole v S2Tanker - Vol I

[Seminole]

Turn 54
July 8, 1944

While it doesn't show in the turn VP, we did just earn the beachhead bonus.



On Corsica the NZ motorized infantry sweep around the southern end of the island and seize the port on the SE coast.



Withdrawals from Corsica continue. Hoping to hold out for one more week to get everyone out.



In southern Italy the defense is left almost entirely to the infantry at this point.



Behind the Atlantic Wall the panzer reserves are waiting for another opportunity.

[Seminole]

Missing turn 55 info for some reason. Maybe forgot to turn on FRAPS?

Turn 56
July 22, 1944

Campaign in Corsica comes to an end as the Allies compel the surrender of an Italian security unit flown in to provide rear guard, as well as the last FJ regiment that didn't have any MP left the turn prior to evacuate.




The FJ have mostly been withdrawn to join 1st FJ Army in SE France.



The western flank of the Atlantic Wall



The center of the Atlantic Wall



And lastly the right flank of the Atlantic Wall



And here in Denmark we have... was ist das?!



The Denmark occupation had been handled with the softest touch in all of Europe. German military units were positioned only a few miles into Danish territory in exchange for assurances of explicit neutrality and total information sharing.
This paternal benevolence has been met with backstabbing treachery!
Allied aircraft have roam over the skies of northernmost Germany.



In southern Italy the infantry are pulled back as they can expect no armored reinforcement to potentially trap Allied forces.



Heavy recon shows the breadth of the Allied invasion in Denmark.



Reinforcements are rushed to The Neck.



SS Panzers are not far behind.



Literally not sure what turn the Allies invaded. The switching around of air attacks completely succeeded in drawing away my attention from the north, and I wasn't looking at the battle filter closely.

[LiquidSky]

It had to be after July 1st. Since you got vp's for no allied units on the continent then.

[KWG]

Smooth! Good move by S2Tanker.

Germans on guard duty, not as alert as Germans on offense.

There will be a investigation.

Someone will be packing for the Russian Front!

[Mamluke]

Ho very nice move by the allies! there you were prepered for domsday in France then BAM, you get invaded in the place were.... aperently you didn't expect at all!

BTW, do Allie players try to go for Denmark often? if not why?

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: Mamluke

Ho very nice move by the allies! there you were prepered for domsday in France then BAM, you get invaded in the place were.... aperently you didn't expect at all!

BTW, do Allie players try to go for Denmark often? if not why?

I did a botched version in my last Allied AAR. I should have just landed in the north. The advantage is surprise and the ability to grab airbases that put all of Germany under air range. The problem is, even with Copenhagen, there are severe supply problems (and Copenhagen is relatively easy for the Germans to defend).

so my feeling is its a good gambit, but its no substitute for getting stuck into France proper. I think this is the first time I've seen the 'Danish gambit' as the major initial landing

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: Mamluke

Ho very nice move by the allies! there you were prepered for domsday in France then BAM, you get invaded in the place were.... aperently you didn't expect at all!

BTW, do Allie players try to go for Denmark often? if not why?

Another thing is that it's beyond any possible Allied fighter coverage. It should be possible to concentrate the LW up there and isolate the beachheads. Yeah, you get some instant airbases, but they are damaged and bombable.

[Seminole]

Pros: shortest route to Berlin.
Narrowest route to Berlin permits air power concentration on axis of advance
Single garrison zone invasion keeps limits on German response

Cons: narrow route to Berlin allows concentration of defense.
Ports on Baltic I don't think can be supplied even if captured.
Supply lines thus exposed to weather and ability to protect beachhead LOCs from the air.
Looks like only one spot on Denmark can be invaded that is on rail, so I'm not sure how that will effect the ability to feed spearheads and build up downstream depots.
Don't want to risk isolation status without a TF.

Maybe the Allies could plan additional small unit landings to keep building airbases if they secured the neck. Have to be careful you don't setup over consumption with too many airfields.
Not sure if TFs could help march down the beachside to additional real ports. Long way to the first little port, twice as far to the next little port.

[Seminole]

Turn 57

July 29, 1944

General of the Infantry Hermann Von Hanneken wakes up with his stomach in knots. Battle reports are filtering into HQ and the results are bleak.
On the western coast the 20th LW Div is falling back under repeated blows.





One bright spot is the performance of the 3/719th Inf Div.
After fighting off successive assaults from 2 US Inf Divs, a Cav Grp, as well as a British Para Bde they finally gave ground.







The 6th SA Arm Div muscles through some infantry regiments and seizes the airfield at Niebüll.
This marks the first enemy boots on German soil.





With the knowledge of reinforcements on the way von Hanneken sends his infantry regiments back north to make contact with the enemy while freshly unloaded panzers race to the front and assist in isolating the invaders.



Taking a brief look back south, the Allies have surged northward to the Adriatic coast, with French motorized infantry division sent alone NW toward Foggia. Although falling back in general, it is decided to take the opportunity to cut off their supplies and a motorized brigade of German infantry slip behind the French and locate some Canadians.
Allied supplies are stretched by this jump forward, and the German paras are dug in like ticks in The Heel ports. Their resistance is important to breaking any Allied momentum in the south while the focus is placed on the northern invasion.



Back in the north the I & II SS Panzer Corps waste no time in counterattacking.



The American paras are routed and the SA 6th Arm Div is isolated in Niebüll while the US 6th Arm Div is also cut off on the eastern coast with the loss of Abrena.
Additional arriving panzers begin to take up defensive positions.



The SA 6th Arm Div is routed by the SS Panzers.



But the US 6th Arm Div is able to hang on.



The 1st FJ Army begins to arrive on the Baltic coast. Plans are already being drawn up to defend Copenhagen, and possibly open a 'second front' behind the invaders via air drops into northern Denmark...

[Seminole]

Turn 58

The Allies counterattack, trying regain momentum.

Again the LW Inf regiments give ground initially.




The SS show a bit more resolve.




The South Africans, having regrouped, push back the 3/20th LW infantry regiment and retake Niebüll, but they can get no further after crashing into the SS panzers.




On the eastern coast the US 6th Arm Div fights strikes south.



With the reinforcements from last week unloaded, the counterattack is dialed up in earnest.
On the western coast the BR Guards Arm Div joins the SA 6th Arm Div as well as infantry formations that we would rather go around.
Germans focus shifts to the eastern Danish coast where exhausted paratroopers try to maintain the lines of communication for US 6th Arm Div.



The retreat of the paras isolates the 6th US Arm Div and it is routed in turn.



General der Panzertruppe Leo Geyr von Schweppenburg and his cohorts heed well the advice of Stonewall Jackson: "...when you strike and overcome him, never let up the pursuit so long as your men have strength to follow; for an army routed, if hotly pursued, becomes panic-stricken, and can then be destroyed by half their number."





Dietrich turns the I SS Panzer Corps onto the BR Guards Arm Div and forces them back into a tighter pocket.



von Schweppenburg now puts the well rested 12th SS Panzer Div in pursuit.





Finally the last paras rout and the entire eastern Danish Allied flank is wide open.



More panzers pour into the breach overrun Allied encampments.



9th SS Pzr Div, the heroes of the Battle of Foggia, are once again called upon to storm the enemy beaches.
While the panzers mow down Seabees 1st FJ conducts several air and sea lifts to reinforce the advance and create resistance on the Allies eastern flank.



The rapid advance of the 9th SS Pzr Div, and overrunning of Allied airbases, results in a lot of lost air frames for the WA.



Ground losses thus far:



note: this is with no surrenders, but 3-1 losses in combat.
It's almost as if there is more to the game than crunching numbers...

End of turn situation on the Danish front:



I was so excited with my success in Denmark I forgot to capture any screenies of the happenings down south.

[whoofe]

love the Denmark gambit. he is so far behind on VPs might as well take the gamble. I think if he does it a few turns earlier when you weren't expecting the beachhead bonus, perhaps he gets away with it?

I am shocked by the low strat bombing VP number. not even averaging 4 per turn.

did he realize since his VPs were in such a poor state that instead he is bombing other targets to weaken particular industries that don't give immediate VP reward but may pay off over the long run, like armor or vehicle perhaps? or did you do something special with your air defenses that has cost the strat bombing so much its no longer effective?

[Seminole]

love the Denmark gambit. he is so far behind on VPs might as well take the gamble. I think if he does it a few turns earlier when you weren't expecting the beachhead bonus, perhaps he gets away with it?

I think what was really hurting him was his troop ship losses making it difficult to reinforce rapidly. Not detecting the invasion immediately honestly played into my hands as he over extended himself and was thereby open to fatal riposte.

I think he could have, with TF support, made a relatively impregnable beachhead in that location, but what I wonder about it is how well it can be supplied, and how well it could feed an advance and the local airfields necessary for success, especially given the distance to England once the weather turns bad.

As it worked out I think he did start to have supply problems (or maybe morale from op tempo?), as the turns I started counterattacking he wasn't putting up ground interdiction numbers like I first saw when I finally noticed the invasion.

I am shocked by the low strat bombing VP number. not even averaging 4 per turn.

Less about my defensive abilities than his handle on the air war at this point overall, I feel.
Lots of turns where Allied level bombers were not doing much good trying to generate ground/railway interdiction, etc.
B-17s should stick to strategic targets.

He's done much better in the rematch as I think he's getting a better handle on the game mechanics:

[whoofe]

ORIGINAL: Seminole

love the Denmark gambit. he is so far behind on VPs might as well take the gamble. I think if he does it a few turns earlier when you weren't expecting the beachhead bonus, perhaps he gets away with it?

I think what was really hurting him was his troop ship losses making it difficult to reinforce rapidly. Not detecting the invasion immediately honestly played into my hands as he over extended himself and was thereby open to fatal riposte.

I think he could have, with TF support, made a relatively impregnable beachhead in that location, but what I wonder about it is how well it can be supplied, and how well it could feed an advance and the local airfields necessary for success, especially given the distance to England once the weather turns bad.

As it worked out I think he did start to have supply problems (or maybe morale from op tempo?), as the turns I started counterattacking he wasn't putting up ground interdiction numbers like I first saw when I finally noticed the invasion.

I am shocked by the low strat bombing VP number. not even averaging 4 per turn.

Less about my defensive abilities than his handle on the air war at this point overall, I feel.
Lots of turns where Allied level bombers were not doing much good trying to generate ground/railway interdiction, etc.
B-17s should stick to strategic targets.

He's done much better in the rematch as I think he's getting a better handle on the game mechanics:

those numbers are nice indeed, up until the last 10 turns at least. guessing he changed to invasion preparation bombing at that point?

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: whoofe

those numbers are nice indeed, up until the last 10 turns at least. guessing he changed to invasion preparation bombing at that point?

I'd suspect its the 1944 multiplier, that in effect halves your per turn gain. Remember the VP score is not just off what you've damaged that turn but off what is not repaired from all your bombing (plus the at start damage).

If you've run up a decent score, pulling the heavy bombers to work over the French ports/railyards around the main landings shouldn't see much of a loss in the per-turn VP (apart from for v-weapons as they are quick to repair and operate on a binary basis rather than related to the level of damage)

[Seminole]

I'd suspect its the 1944 multiplier, that in effect halves your per turn gain. Remember the VP score is not just off what you've damaged that turn but off what is not repaired from all your bombing (plus the at start damage).

Correct that the multiplier reduction is responsible for the shift.
I could have done a better job reducing damage by assigning more repair crews manually, but I've been spending my AP a little differently as it is an EF box game (the rematch shown above, not this one).

[KWG]

Seminole


"note: this is with no surrenders, but 3-1 losses in combat.
It's almost as if there is more to the game than crunching numbers... "

as in... equipment vs equipment....deciding if to attack... results vs loss numbers...?

Spock...Explain.

[whoofe]

ORIGINAL: loki100

ORIGINAL: whoofe

those numbers are nice indeed, up until the last 10 turns at least. guessing he changed to invasion preparation bombing at that point?

I'd suspect its the 1944 multiplier, that in effect halves your per turn gain. Remember the VP score is not just off what you've damaged that turn but off what is not repaired from all your bombing (plus the at start damage).

If you've run up a decent score, pulling the heavy bombers to work over the French ports/railyards around the main landings shouldn't see much of a loss in the per-turn VP (apart from for v-weapons as they are quick to repair and operate on a binary basis rather than related to the level of damage)

ahh yes, I had forgotten about that. thx

[Seminole]

as in... equipment vs equipment....deciding if to attack... results vs loss numbers...?
Spock...Explain.

Mystify, mislead, surprise!
I don't just anchor on some spot like a sea wall and wait for the tide to wear me down.
I also don't like to plow in if I can invent a way around.
I seek in almost all instances the initiative. To compel the fight to occur on ground of my choosing.
If I sense I'm facing McClellan I don't play him as though he were in fact Sherman. My strategies are not rote.
I try to spook, to bait, and to induce and create opportunities.
I aim to divide my enemy with false visions of opportunity, and where possible to use his own momentum (or as importantly, perception of it) to have the fight on my terms.

I see some people do what amounts to 'tug of war', whereas I'm always striving for dog fights, where I can obtain more decisive results.
If you opponent is a McClellan that can be difficult, but I find those types make poor headway regardless always looking for their own shadow.

If your goal is to simply line up mano a mano in the '44 WitE campaign and watch the Soviets grind on you, it won't be a good time. But if you instead try to preserve and exploit your advantages it can be amazing fun.

I want to see some of the creativity I've witnessed people display on the attack on the defensive as well.
This 'clockwork' business of X turns to game end, Y hexes to Berlin isn't my cup of tea. It's defeatist! [8D]

[Seminole]

Turn 59

A quick peek at the losses screen upon opening the turn indicates the ferocity and futility of the Allies bid to escape the inevitable in Denmark.



In an curious twist of fate the Nisei regiment was only significant Allied formation to be eliminated last week



The para units and 6th US Arm Div that were routed the prior week appear to have been wiped off the map as a byproduct of isolation from supplies. Not really sure the game mechanic in play here.



The units on hand finish the mop up, bagging at least:
508th US Para Rgt
517th US Para Rgt
82nd US Airborne Div
1st BR Airborne Div
4th BR Commando Bde
3rd US Cav Grp
Guards BR Arm Div
6th SA Arm Div
79th US Inf Div
88th US Inf Div
90th US Inf Div



Allied POWs now exceed 300k, greater than all Axis losses combined.



Only problem with my success is that it means an instant return of the garrison requirements, and there is simply no way to get sufficient forces back on rails, moved, and unloaded to avoid a penalty.



When it became apparent that the forces on hand could handle the Danish incursion the additional armored reinforcements were redirected back south. It was decided there was sufficient opportunity to take advantage of the Allies stretched supply lines on the Italian plains. 1st FJ Army units were also sent to bolster The Heel port forts, and begin prep for possible air drops.

Units from both sides find themselves cut off in the ensuing melee, but my paras have the advantage of sitting on large stockpiles in high level forts, so they are essentially unaffected.



The Luftwaffe again make an appearance, and wind up the interdiction levels the Allies must contend with to disentangle their units.



CV of forces in S. Italy:

[KWG]

Thanks for the very good explanation!

Overwhelming response to the Denmark Invasion by the Germans, showing that ground vs ground the Allies must have the full power of their Air Forces to offset the Germans equipment, leadership and home-field advantage. And make maximum use of support units.
A Allied Infantry Division can be made to field as much armor as a German Panzer Division.

This AAR and the Pelton vs S2Tanker AAR seem to indicate that S2Tanker may be trying to develop a "pull them apart" invasion strategy.