Public Beta v1.08.08 now available

[Mehring]

Not necessarily. I think Russian 43+ air support may need toning down a bit but ground elements probably need toning up, particularly vs AFV. I do not turtle, ever, and my summer 43 German OoB is just now beginning to fall below 4.5 million + Axis minors vs 7.3 million Russians. I think both would be lower had my opponent attacked more but nowhere near enough lower. The losses are just too low all round. Looking at combat losses in .08, they generally look better for the Russians (higher), particularly early war, but that will only lead to even more inflated Axis armies. The Russians will derive no benefit from AP free unit shells if they have no manpower to fill them.

Maybe the problem is that players don't like the historical reality of playing divisions at a fraction of their full strength.

[Tejszd]

Glad to see continued support WitE and do not see an issue with beta versions having changes for people to test.

If you do not want to be impacted by changes in the code that maybe have more impact to balance than desired/planned wait for a non beta patch which will have had much more testing than the developers/testers could do on their own since a beta was released....

[Michael T]

I voted against the morale changes. 50 morale in June 41 is nuts. The new morale has put me off playing as IMO the game has swung way in favor of the Reds again. It was almost there I thought with 07. Hence my interest in playing again. But .08 makes it a Soviet cakewalk again. Anyone who thinks otherwise just can't play Soviet.

I am in alignment with Chaos. Put morale back to 07 and find the bug that is displacing HQ's etc in 43+. Please.

[morvael]

This is one of the few bugs that I heard about but wasn't able to replicate even once. I think it happens only with server games.

[Michael T]

It's like a ticking time bomb just waiting to hit Soviets in 43+

[:(]

FWIW I think its related to the AI and truck shortages.

[821Bobo]

ORIGINAL: morvael

This is one of the few bugs that I heard about but wasn't able to replicate even once. I think it happens only with server games.

It would be nice if you can catch this one. It ruined probably my best game. [:(]


morvael
Looking at the current Axis morale is there any particular reason why Slovakia has the worst morale? I am probably biased towards Slovakia but performance of the Fast division(and that's basically all what we had on the Eastern front) in 41-42 does not justify 45.

[Denniss]

What is this bug? Anyone with details or even a save?

Slovakians were good soldiers but a number of them (even commanders) were not really willing to fight Hitler's war and they are reported to suffer from high desertion rate.

[morvael]

This bug is about AI messing with HQs in server games. This must happen somewhere during logistics phase where the AI reorganizes HQs to its liking, thinking it's in control. But I wasn't able to find location of this in code, this would require to play a debug multiplayer game to find out when and why does it happen. Probably I need to do just that. Any volunteers?

[morvael]

Previously Slovakia was in higher tier with Hungary, Italy and Rumania were the lowest. I think I can bump Slovakia to Hungary's level without problem. After all their impact on the game is very small, their air force disappears after a few turns as does HQ and one unit. And the other converts to security division.

[Michael T]

Link to HQ bug tech report. Others have suffered a similar bug more recently.

tm.asp?m=3254415

[821Bobo]

ORIGINAL: Denniss

Slovakians were good soldiers but a number of them (even commanders) were not really willing to fight Hitler's war and they are reported to suffer from high desertion rate.

The desertion was actually very low. It started to be problem from 43. I can't imagine unreliable unit would be part of Panzer Korps that was a spearhead in German advance in 42.

[SigUp]

ORIGINAL: morvael

This bug is about AI messing with HQs in server games. This must happen somewhere during logistics phase where the AI reorganizes HQs to its liking, thinking it's in control. But I wasn't able to find location of this in code, this would require to play a debug multiplayer game to find out when and why does it happen. Probably I need to do just that. Any volunteers?

I think loki recently ran into this problem and he's doing PBEM.

[morvael]

I hope he has the saves and can share them.

[Mehring]

ORIGINAL: morvael

This bug is about AI messing with HQs in server games. This must happen somewhere during logistics phase where the AI reorganizes HQs to its liking, thinking it's in control. But I wasn't able to find location of this in code, this would require to play a debug multiplayer game to find out when and why does it happen. Probably I need to do just that. Any volunteers?

Given the likelihood that the bug won't appear and the time you could spend waiting for it to do so, wouldn't it be better to just put out a call for anyone experiencing the problem to report the bug before they save on the server as per the previous request?

[morvael]

We'll wait if loki100 can confirm this happened to him in a PBEM. If this would be in a PBEM not server game, that would be a big surprise, but it will allow to fix it quickly. If not maybe two volunteers will be able to play a fast server game so we could replicate this. If this would happen again then I would need to repeat such game on my account, so that I would have debug access to the game. Ideal case would be for me to have access to two accounts so I could debug for both sides.

[chaos45]

Slovakians- Until the Stalingrad disaster were actually regarded as good troops by the Germans from all I have read.

After Stalingrad and a disaster that befell the Fast Divisions on the retreat- it was encircled took heavy losses/lost almost all its heavy equipment but alot of men escaped. Slovakian morale was an issue and it was relegated to second line work.

Its another one of those cases where the unit really only had a ToE/morale change because it lost all of it equipment in early 1943, due to what should be a game event.

They should be rated as one of the more competent axis allied armies until 1943, if not slightly higher- 50-55 morale would be my guess as a baseline until 1943 then plummeting when they realized the Germans were going to lose. Maybe 40 morale after 1943, as they really did become combat in-effective after 1943.

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: morvael

We'll wait if loki100 can confirm this happened to him in a PBEM. If this would be in a PBEM not server game, that would be a big surprise, but it will allow to fix it quickly. If not maybe two volunteers will be able to play a fast server game so we could replicate this. If this would happen again then I would need to repeat such game on my account, so that I would have debug access to the game. Ideal case would be for me to have access to two accounts so I could debug for both sides.

problem is I don't save the turns as it arrives, I usually save over the original as I make my turn so what I end up with the end of turn positions - which doesn't help. So its impossible to say if it was me being careless or something moving HQs. I'll keep an eye on it, but if it did happen it seems to have been a one-off and connected with shifting to .08.08

[Wuffer]

ORIGINAL: malyhin1517

This applies not only beta-versions of the game! I know what means beta version! Specifically, version 1.08.08, the return of all units destroyed after 11/41 - it's wrong from a historical point of view! And still too large losses suffered by German aircraft in 1941!

Valueable and useful observations.
Seriously, you have a valid argument - maybe some of the more significant changes should have made optional so that they don't disturb ongoing matches. ..
Finding the right balance in a chaotic, non linear and assymmetric system is quite tricky.

[morvael]

Some people still play PBEM using 1.07. I think it's possible to continue game using older version if both parties agree. And you can always make a copy of game folder with specific version to retain it for some games you don't want "disturbed", while exploring new version's features using main copy. So it's a win-win situation.

[morvael]

If someone has all the previous patches (pompack?), and can somehow share them with me (maybe via Dropbox), I could put them on my Dropbox, as I have 1TB of space there. We would then make a sticky post of links to all versions and people could then install any patch they like and play using that version.