Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J)

[Xargun]

ORIGINAL: witpqs
Note to self: use the Oxford comma.

You and this shipping company..

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/lack-o ... &ocid=iehp

[anarchyintheuk]

ORIGINAL: Xargun

ORIGINAL: witpqs
Note to self: use the Oxford comma.

You and this shipping company..

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/lack-o ... &ocid=iehp

Oxford commas are a non-necessary evil. Like the story says, if there's ambiguity rewrite the sentence.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

ORIGINAL: Xargun

ORIGINAL: witpqs
Note to self: use the Oxford comma.

You and this shipping company..

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/lack-o ... &ocid=iehp

Oxford commas are a non-necessary evil. Like the story says, if there's ambiguity rewrite the sentence.

Yeah, but they are the same braniacs who started the article with this sentence.

A class-action lawsuit about overtime pay for truck drivers hinged entirely on a debate that has bitterly divided friends, families and foes: The dreaded — or totally necessary — Oxford comma, perhaps the most polarizing of punctuation marks.

So do they mean to say it divided friends against families and foes? Good to know families and foes are united against friends.

The re-write is easily accomplished by adding the single comma they despise.

I do agree the comma is unnecessary; make the meaning clear by some other means as you wish. But it is efficient if not pretty. Of course the example they used shows that clarity is also unnecessary. Just substitute a lawsuit! [:D]

[Sardaukar]

I think we have completely hijacked this AAR...[:D]

[ny59giants]

Blazing Saddles - one of the best western movies of all time!! [&o]

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

I think we have completely hijacked this AAR...[:D]

Love it! [:)]

Airplane and Blazing Saddles are two of my all-time favs.

Here's another piece of the new slang survey. Apparently the previous three were too easy for Loka. We may be the same generation, but ... "on fleek?"

[obvert]

[font="Times New Roman"]Opening Moves[/font]

---

So I've had the first turn for a few days and I've been re-discovering the Allied side. I haven't played this scenario before, and although its based on Scen 1, the DBB version is definitely different. I love how many little ships of all types there are.

My thinking has revealed around three basic ideas to start off.

1. SRA:

While I want to slow the Japanese progress here, I also want to avoid losing half the RN cruisers here. Last time around I was a bit cavalier. I thin there will be opportunities if I'm patient, so I'll try not to jump on the first shot I have. I' not going to do anything too unorthodox, and no festungs. I do want to take some time also to watch Lowpe's air patterns. Having not played him before it'll take a while to start seeing what he likes (and doesn't like) to do.

2. CHINA:

This theatre is a pain for most Allied players, but I still believe that even with good IJ play, the Chinese can be a pain in the rear. If he's done his research he'll know I will run to x3 ground and get stuck in. I've decided this time around to sacrifice more of the smaller Corps to block rails and generally create some chaos while also preparing to die and leave more supply for the bigger units to use. I'll not do much with the Chinese AF soon, but the AVG should make and appearance or two here.

I will supply China through the air via Ledo ASAP. I'll move all free transports here to start.

3. Post SRA; invasion Bonus:

Where will he go after the SRA is secured? This is the burning question for me. He's seen the results of a passive, inept opening and an aggressive, organised game in his last. I would doubt he'd give the West Coast another shot, but who knows? Maybe he's got it solved now? [:)]

Odds;

20-1 - Soviets

(I can't imagine he'll go for the ultimate goal here, but you never know. A solid China defence will make it harder, so my goals there are to hold firm).

10-1 - West Coast Full

(It would take some real guts to do it again so soon. I've got the message at least, and forts have started everywhere. Just saw that Salt Lake is worth something like 25k VPs!! [X(] That will get a regiment if he does come).

8-1 - India Full

(Crossing the LOD here and going for Karachi would be epic. May other Allied game faced an India invasion, so I know how tense it could be. I don't think he'll risk it knowing that my guard will be up, and I have new ideas of how to slow this down).

7-1 - West Coast Partial

(He could come to harvest VPs but avoid triggering reinforcements. I still doubt this will be part of the plan).

6-1 - Australia Full

(Crossing the LOD here and harvesting lots of industry and resources could be a productive 42 for the IJ. There isn't much to slow them down, but reinforcements are good, and it's almost impossible to completely blockade OZ).

5-1 - Historic Perimeter plus

(This is more likely, with an addition of West OZ and further Pacific conquests plus some more of the Aleutians. This would not be an AV threat, but could conserve the fuel and supply his economy needs to be effective late).

4-1 - India Partial

(Just taking Calcutta, Madras and the mountains could help his economy and kill a lot of Allied troops, also reducing the Commonwealth pools. A good option, and he does have experience there in his last game).

3-1 - Australia Partial

(This is a concern and one of the best openings for Japan as I see it. Take the West, the NE, and bomb the crap out of the resource centres, industry and any shipping found in the ports. Very low risk. Good payout. Not to expensive).

Will he go for AV? I doubt it. Lowpe seems too concerned with the healthy running of the economy and he has PDU-ON plus Symon's air fixes to the Jack, George and Ki-100. So if the Allies don't do something in late 42 into early 43, it could get painful in the air.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

ORIGINAL: Xargun

ORIGINAL: witpqs
Note to self: use the Oxford comma.

You and this shipping company..

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/lack-o ... &ocid=iehp

Oxford commas are a non-necessary evil. Like the story says, if there's ambiguity rewrite the sentence.

Or just use your commas correctly. Concision and clarity are key. Rewriting a sentence to eliminate the question of whether you have to use an Oxford comma typically means more words being used, which goes against the concision principle.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

I think we have completely hijacked this AAR...[:D]

Love it! [:)]

Airplane and Blazing Saddles are two of my all-time favs.

Here's another piece of the new slang survey. Apparently the previous three were too easy for Loka. We may be the same generation, but ... "on fleek?"

OK, they got me sort of on the last one, but I can guess from context clues. Guessing: B/A/B

I don't know why stanning would mean you're a superfan. I at least know the origins of all of the others so far. That's my guess, though.

For the record, I think "on fleek" is awful and I don't think people who were themselves on fleek actually used it. It was/is a wannabe fad, in other words. Because you sound stupid when you say it.

[Drakanel]

What has happened to this thread? o.o

[ny59giants]

China - I usually have to leap frog BFs from way up north to get those fighters down to Chungking area. At least to Lanchow area. I send a handful of AA units from Ledo across the mountains to Kunming and beyond. It takes a while, but it will make his bombers fly higher and be less effective. AVG groups upgrade to P-39s and/or P-40s so those H81 planes can go to Chinese airgroups.

India - At least 2 SBD groups go here via Cape Town. The Swordfish and Vildebeest are great, but these guys will keep him honest. The two PBY groups in Philippines eventually end up here as the small 6 plane Catalina groups are too small to cover all that water. I like to send the B-17D from Philippines here as well. They can actually hit Sian area from Ledo. Or from Changsha to Shanghai (or Takao).

American CVs - I place an 18 plane Marine fighter group on each ASAP. After the Jan 1st USN fighter re-sizing, you will have 45 fighter planes on each. Survivability is the word here!!

Good hunting, sir!!

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

China - I usually have to leap frog BFs from way up north to get those fighters down to Chungking area. At least to Lanchow area. I send a handful of AA units from Ledo across the mountains to Kunming and beyond. It takes a while, but it will make his bombers fly higher and be less effective. AVG groups upgrade to P-39s and/or P-40s so those H81 planes can go to Chinese airgroups.

India - At least 2 SBD groups go here via Cape Town. The Swordfish and Vildebeest are great, but these guys will keep him honest. The two PBY groups in Philippines eventually end up here as the small 6 plane Catalina groups are too small to cover all that water. I like to send the B-17D from Philippines here as well. They can actually hit Sian area from Ledo. Or from Changsha to Shanghai (or Takao).

American CVs - I place an 18 plane Marine fighter group on each ASAP. After the Jan 1st USN fighter re-sizing, you will have 45 fighter planes on each. Survivability is the word here!!

Good hunting, sir!!

Thanks for the tips. I'm definitely going to be using off-map a lot, and mainly through Cape Town. I like the flexibility there of being able to send to India, DEI or OZ in the first months. I've already assigned some 2E USAAF units, some fighters and some AA and CD guns to travel and I'll then assess where they might be best placed.

Like sending the SBD groups. Not much they're going to do in the Pacific for the next six months so why not?

I plan to withdraw a bunch of Chinese air groups and consolidate into functional units, and I may take the option to use some P-39s here in the AVG and distribute the H81. I won't send in AA though as it uses too much supply. I'll be killing off some Chinese units intentionally to limit supply needs and also trying to fly some in over the hump. Bombing from Ledo will be an option, but it's also a very vulnerable position once he has Burma.

This time I'll build forts VERY selectively in China. The x3 territory is enough most places, and bases can be bombed out of supply, rendering forts there less effective anyway.

[Macclan5]

Subscribed... [:D]

[obvert]

I'll try to also get as many Chinese air units as I can to india rather than keeping them in China.

The secure area should allow them to train while not using Chinese supply.

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: obvert

I'll try to also get as many Chinese air units as I can to india rather than keeping them in China.

The secure area should allow them to train while not using Chinese supply.

I do the same. It also puts them at bases with sufficient supply to allow for reinforcements and upgrades

[Lecivius]

ORIGINAL: Xargun

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Mind you, whenever they ask me something and I want to confuse them, I just say

"That a negative on that trajectory Ben (or Sammy)"

That only works until you educate them on the classic movies from the 80's... Something I'm slowly doing with my son as he gets older. Current target is Indiana Jones movies.. then probably Young Guns. Spaceballs, Princess Bride, Star Wars and Monty Python's Holy Grail already indoctrinated.

What about Da Boys?!!??

[Bif1961]

The Three Stooges were nominated for an Oscar for one of their shorts "Men in Black." Calling Doctor Howard, Doctor Fine, Doctor Howard.

[obvert]

[font="Times New Roman"]December 7, 1941[/font]

---

GAME ON!!

[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]PACIFIC: [/font]Lowpe goes for a historic opening. His strike at Pearl is a good one. Pennsylvania suffers a magazine explosion. There are a lot of 800kg bomb hits. A lot of multiple torpedo and bomb hits so I fear these BBs will be out for quite a while. Or wrecked completely after a day 2 follow-on strike. We'll see.

He made one interesting choice I've not seen a lot before. A few groups of Vals strat bombed the city. Interested to see what happened. This is a sure sign the West Coast will not be a second tier target later. So I can cross that off the list and send any free troops and air groups out immediately. [:)]

If he does go again Flak will be a factor, but I'll also try to encourage them to hit targets at sea rather than in port by launching some low value shipping around the Hawaiian Islands.

[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]SUBS: [/font] The I-157 takes out the KXI, which sucks. Love the Dutch subs in the beginning.

[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]INDIA: [/font] Got a few units organised. I forgot how little is here in the beginning! A lot of stuff from ConUS will be heading here.

[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]PI: [/font] The port strikes hurt the sub fleet pretty badly at Manila, with two sunk and another ten hit. Lots of 800kg bombs again. The P-40s took a big hit too, so I may just try to get them out an re-group in Java.

One small success was B-17Ds bombing from 1k against shipping. Got two hits on an AK with troops aboard. Always nice. [:)]

[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]CHINA: [/font] The Chinese head for the hills.

[font="Trebuchet MS"]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 7, 41
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Sub vs Sub: SS I-157 attacking SS KXI at 53,75 - near Kota Bharu

Japanese Ships
SS I-157

Allied Ships
SS KXI, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage

SS I-157 launches 2 torpedoes at 2,000 yards

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 180,107

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 106 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 35 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 106
B5N2 Kate x 144
D3A1 Val x 131

Allied aircraft
P-40B Warhawk x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 4 damaged
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed by flak
B5N2 Kate: 13 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 2 destroyed by flak
D3A1 Val: 6 damaged
D3A1 Val: 2 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
P-40B Warhawk: 1 damaged
SBD-1 Dauntless: 1 destroyed on ground
PBY-5 Catalina: 3 destroyed on ground
A-20A Havoc: 1 destroyed on ground
B-18A Bolo: 3 destroyed on ground
O-47A: 1 destroyed on ground
C-33: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied Ships
BB California, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 3, heavy damage
BB Nevada, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 11, Torpedo hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Ralph Talbot, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CL Helena, Torpedo hits 1
CA San Francisco, Bomb hits 2
CL St. Louis, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 3
DM Gamble, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
CL Honolulu, Bomb hits 1
DM Preble, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
AV Tangier, Torpedo hits 1
CL Detroit, Torpedo hits 1
CA New Orleans, Bomb hits 1

Repair Shipyard hits 7
Airbase hits 47
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 72
Port hits 19
Port fuel hits 1
Port supply hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
18 x A6M2 Zero bombing from 9000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
3 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
City Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb [&:] City attack? Strat bombing PH? Never seen that before. Curious to see if there is some effect.
27 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 9000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
18 x A6M2 Zero bombing from 9000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
5 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
City Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
26 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp
8 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
City Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
17 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp
18 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 10000 feet
9 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
18 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 9000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
14 x A6M2 Zero bombing from 9000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
27 x D3A1 Val bombing from 9000 feet
Airfield Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
27 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp
27 x D3A1 Val bombing from 9000 feet
Airfield Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
27 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 9000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
6 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
3 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
City Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
4 x A6M2 Zero bombing from 9000 feet
Airfield Attack: 1 plane(s) with no ordnance [:D] Forgot to load up?
Airfield Attack: 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
7 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
6 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
City Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
City Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
18th PG/73rd PS with P-40B Warhawk (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 12 minutes

Magazine explodes on BB Pennsylvania

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Manila , at 79,77

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 40 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 40
G3M2 Nell x 36
G4M1 Betty x 81

Allied aircraft
P-40E Warhawk x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 2 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
P-40E Warhawk: 2 destroyed, 5 damaged
P-40E Warhawk: 5 destroyed on ground
PBY-4 Catalina: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied Ships
TK Gertrude Kellogg, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
SS S-40, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage
AV Langley, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
SS Sturgeon, Bomb hits 1
SS Spearfish, Bomb hits 1
SS Swordfish, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage
SS Skipjack, Bomb hits 1
SS Seawolf, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage
SS Saury, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
SS Stingray, Bomb hits 2, heavy damage
SS Tarpon, Bomb hits 1
SS Searaven, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage
SS Sculpin, Bomb hits 1
xAKL Anakan, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires

Allied ground losses:
20 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Airbase hits 10
Airbase supply hits 8
Runway hits 60
Port hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
27 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 8000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb
26 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 8000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb

CAP engaged:
24th PG/17th PS with P-40E Warhawk (3 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 9000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 97 minutes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Manila , at 79,77

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 8 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 2 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 8
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 18

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
xAKL Dona Nati, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AVD Childs, Bomb hits 1, on fire
xAP Rochambeau, Bomb hits 1
SS S-41, Bomb hits 1
SS Salmon, Bomb hits 1
SS Sealion, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk

Port hits 1
Port fuel hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
18 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 8000 feet *
Port Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Taytay at 75,82

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 6 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Allied aircraft
OS2U-3 Kingfisher x 3

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
DD Fubuki, Bomb hits 2, on fire

Japanese ground losses:
71 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x OS2U-3 Kingfisher bombing from 100 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 lb SAP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Laoag at 81,72

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 8 NM, estimated altitude 2,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 2 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-17D Fortress x 7

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
xAK Nagara Maru, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires

Japanese ground losses:
299 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 5 destroyed, 22 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x B-17D Fortress bombing from 1000 feet
Naval Attack: 4 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/color][/font]

---

[SqzMyLemon]

You'd have to confirm with Lowpe, but I don't think he targeted city. Perhaps DBB has changed something in the targeting? In my current game with Francois, I was 100% port strike with KB against Manila and had 20-30 aircraft target the city. I remember watching the replays in both of my starts against Francois during Pearl and Manila strikes, and thinking I'd never seen so many city attacks on 100% port attack.

[ny59giants]

Pearl - I'm usually more concerned about the damage to my CA/CLs. After KB clears the area I often send two modern CLs and 4 DDs to Aleutians (Dutch Harbor). S-Boats from West Coast go up north, too.