The Accidental War Obvert vs Lowpe

[Lowpe]

High experienced units that might be purchased out:

[Aurorus]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

IJN Infantry Formations

I really like these guys, and when I can I will be buying them out and replacing them with other troops for garrison duty in China.

The Ankei SNLF is pretty unique in that they have 2 40mm Bofors, the second generation ones, which are darn near the best AA guns Japan has (but don't get access to till very late in 1945).

In addition they must get Tank Hunting Heroes or something in 1943 as their hard attack gets a boost -- and we all know the Allies love atoll invasions with tanks.

You are going to spend political points to buy SNLFs out of China? Seriously? For 2 40mm bofors? You're crazy.

[SqzMyLemon]

Sorry Lowpe, I didn't see it that way, but in hindsight I should have posted in your other AAR.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Aurorus

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

IJN Infantry Formations

I really like these guys, and when I can I will be buying them out and replacing them with other troops for garrison duty in China.

The Ankei SNLF is pretty unique in that they have 2 40mm Bofors, the second generation ones, which are darn near the best AA guns Japan has (but don't get access to till very late in 1945).

In addition they must get Tank Hunting Heroes or something in 1943 as their hard attack gets a boost -- and we all know the Allies love atoll invasions with tanks.

You are going to spend political points to buy SNLFs out of China? Seriously? For 2 40mm bofors? You're crazy.

I always buy units out of China. Don't you? I always buy out the Ankei at some point.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

I'm glad to see a few experienced players posting about expanding LI.

Sqz [:-]I think that qualifies for an opsec warning. loose lips may sink ships, especially if some Allied player reads it.[:D]

He is off at a fire damaged building now, and won't be checking the forum for a day or two so feel free to edit that post a bit and I will get you an answer.

[Lowpe]

Here are the Navy Recon squadrons at game start.

They fly the Babs, then upgrade to Irving C, Judy C and Myrt. Unfortunately, these planes all pretty much stink at naval search into the teeth of Allied Carriers.

So, the IJNAF is going to loan these squadrons to the Army, and in return the IJAAF is going to loan an equal number of Dinah II squadrons trained in Naval Search. Eventually they will upgrade to Dinah III and will fly across the Empire to provide search when the Allied carriers are present.

We shall see how that works.

[Lowpe]

Harbin

The plane factory here is critical as it will most likely be safe till mid 45; and this being a scenario 1 game if I make it that far that will be great!

Normally Harbin is a great Frank factory, but for that to happen it will sit idle until mid 43. The Tony is a solid option, but there again it will sit idle till mid 42. Same process with Jack and George.

So what to do with this critical factory? Produce a low volume plane till the Tony/Frank/Jack/George comes along?

I am going big with Jack this game, so I think it will be a big Jack factory. Fair enough. Now what to do with the factory till early 43 when the Jack arrives? I am thinking a small Ann or Mary factory -- big enough to use up the starting pool of engines. Since most JFB go Ann, I think I will go Mary to be contrary.[;)]

Not much redeems the Mary, but we will have surprise on our side.[:)] Mary qualifies as this games ugly duckling.

[Aurorus]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: Aurorus

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

IJN Infantry Formations

I really like these guys, and when I can I will be buying them out and replacing them with other troops for garrison duty in China.

The Ankei SNLF is pretty unique in that they have 2 40mm Bofors, the second generation ones, which are darn near the best AA guns Japan has (but don't get access to till very late in 1945).

In addition they must get Tank Hunting Heroes or something in 1943 as their hard attack gets a boost -- and we all know the Allies love atoll invasions with tanks.

You are going to spend political points to buy SNLFs out of China? Seriously? For 2 40mm bofors? You're crazy.

I always buy units out of China. Don't you? I always buy out the Ankei at some point.

No... at least not SNLFs. SNLFs are fine light defensive units if they have 80+ exp. and are behind good forts. The Ankei is 60 exp. I would not waste PPs buying it out. I would not waste supply fortifying it, and I would not waste replacements replacing its casualties, unless it was in a crucial position, which it will not be, since it is JUNK... lol.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Aurorus


No... at least not SNLFs. SNLFs are fine light defensive units if they have 80+ exp. and are behind good forts. The Ankei is 60 exp. I would not waste PPs buying it out. I would not waste supply fortifying it, and I would not waste replacements replacing its casualties, unless it was in a crucial position, which it will not be, since it is JUNK... lol.

Boy, you are tough. These units are great for slicing thru the jungle cutting supply lines. Also totally air mobile and with some AT capability mid 43 and later. Great fire brigades; great anti-paratrooper garrisons; great small units that usually are bypassed in heavy bombings especially if something larger is present. Would be too neat if you could combine three of them for a regiment, but alas, no unit is perfect. You undervalue it at your peril![:D]

Here are some more units I will buy out of China. You probably don't like them either. Probably scoff at them. I start with three Armored Car units, and they are pure gold, let me tell you. Off to Atolls for you guys!

[Lowpe]

Got an email from my honorable opponent -- he may finish the turn tomorrow....and we will be off and not exactly running but moving faster than a speeding Gorn.[:)]

[Aurorus]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: Aurorus


No... at least not SNLFs. SNLFs are fine light defensive units if they have 80+ exp. and are behind good forts. The Ankei is 60 exp. I would not waste PPs buying it out. I would not waste supply fortifying it, and I would not waste replacements replacing its casualties, unless it was in a crucial position, which it will not be, since it is JUNK... lol.

Boy, you are tough. These units are great for slicing thru the jungle cutting supply lines. Also totally air mobile and with some AT capability mid 43 and later. Great fire brigades; great anti-paratrooper garrisons; great small units that usually are bypassed in heavy bombings especially if something larger is present. Would be too neat if you could combine three of them for a regiment, but alas, no unit is perfect. You undervalue it at your peril![:D]

Here are some more units I will buy out of China. You probably don't like them either. Probably scoff at them. I start with three Armored Car units, and they are pure gold, let me tell you. Off to Atolls for you guys!

These are the Japanese Imperial Armed Forces. We have no interest in units dressed up for parade, but can't fight. I like the armored cars, BTW, but I would not buy them out of China, at least for a long time, because I like them in China. Atoll defense? Why? Their hard rating is not enough to penetrate U.S. tank armor. Your best defense of atolls is forts. Your second best defense of atolls is forts, and your third best defense of atolls is forts.

BTW, if you really want to bring pain upon an allied armor unit in SoPac, try your Ya-Go engineer tanks in Korea... nasty and stack-limit friendly if you want to put them on an atoll.

[Lowpe]

There is no unit that survives enemy naval bombardments better than an armored unit. For whatever reason they get targeted dead last. I can't tell you how many atoll invasions failed because of the presence of a lowly armored car unit with no disruption and forts 5 while the eng and inf and art are totally disrupted to 0 effective assault value.

Oh, and you are correct. It will probably be 43 before I buy them out.

[Lowpe]

It is hard to see how HQ and unit prep help speed up combats, but it does to a remarkable degree. Here is a little sneaky one...the obvious targets are Singers, Rangoon, dare I say Calcutta?

[Aurorus]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

33% hits with torpedoes sounds about right against stationary targets. Almost all your Kates carried torpedoes, hitting 43 times out off 130 dropped. However it would be interesting to run the same attack without the float planes and see if the results are the same.

I think I was getting 18-20 torpedo hits prior to daytime recon; with daytime recon it jumped up to 24 but the runway damage and damaged planes jumped 30 percent.

A lot depends how many 800kg bomb drops there are...the best strike saw 3 BB sunk outright and it had the highest amount of 800 kg bomb drops. Almost all strikes result in 0 BB going down.

Playing the Ironman scenarios, I did not use torpedos againt Pearl at all. The flak is just too murderous. In so doing, I discovered that 800 Kg bombs are actually more effective than torpedos at sinking the BBs (and more likely to get magazine explosions). The problem with just setting all bomb attacks in a PBEM is that the damage will be mostly system damage and many of the BBs will still make good speed on the 8th. It will also be hard to sink them with submarines later when they make their move to the West Coast, because they will have less flotation damage.

But for someone who wants to inflict maximum damage with 1 strike, bombs are actually better than torpedos for the Kates. And if you want to sink all 8 against the AI, which anyone can do without much trouble, it is much easier to do it with bombs than torpedos, while the BBs are at Pearl.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Aurorus

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

33% hits with torpedoes sounds about right against stationary targets. Almost all your Kates carried torpedoes, hitting 43 times out off 130 dropped. However it would be interesting to run the same attack without the float planes and see if the results are the same.

I think I was getting 18-20 torpedo hits prior to daytime recon; with daytime recon it jumped up to 24 but the runway damage and damaged planes jumped 30 percent.

A lot depends how many 800kg bomb drops there are...the best strike saw 3 BB sunk outright and it had the highest amount of 800 kg bomb drops. Almost all strikes result in 0 BB going down.

Playing the Ironman scenarios, I did not use torpedos againt Pearl at all. The flak is just too murderous. In so doing, I discovered that 800 Kg bombs are actually more effective than torpedos at sinking the BBs (and more likely to get magazine explosions). The problem with just setting all bomb attacks in a PBEM is that the damage will be mostly system damage and many of the BBs will still make good speed on the 8th. It will also be hard to sink them with submarines later when they make their move to the West Coast, because they will have less flotation damage.

But for someone who wants to inflict maximum damage with 1 strike, bombs are actually better than torpedos for the Kates. And if you want to sink all 8 against the AI, which anyone can do without much trouble, it is much easier to do it with bombs than torpedos, while the BBs are at Pearl.

I really disagree. Torpedoes are best for quickly sinking ships, particularly armored ones. There's no guarantee that your Kates will fly with 800kg bombs instead of 2x250kg.

Ironman flak may be a special case, but you could try setting the attack altitude of the Kates to maximum to see if that magically avoids the flak. It's possible that torpedo bombers are still fired at when at 200 feet, but torpedo planes appear to teleport from whatever altitude they were at to 200 feet in order to launch.

[Lowpe]

The starting IJAAF bomber force. Pretty varied. In PDU on, the temptation is great to standardize on Sally/Helen and perhaps then Peggy.

Let us refresh our memories with some supply calculations:

1. Offensive missions cost maximum load/1000 for bombers
2. Dive and Torpedo bombers are 1 supply per plane per offensive mission
3. Search and Escort and Training are 1/3rd a point of supply per plane
4. 12 points of supply to replace a fighter or fighter bomber
5. 30 points to replace a bomber (sonia or helen same price)
6. 270 PP to convert LB to FB; 75 PP to convert LB to MB.


In general, the larger the bomber’s bomb the greater effect, penetration, and accuracy.

Other than bombing troops in open terrain, or troops that are already heavily disabled, it is very difficult to actually destroy units by bombing alone. But causing disruption is critical in taking fortified positions. Also, bombing helps to drain supply from the defenders too.

To take China requires a lot of bombing. At 2.3 points of supply per Sally or Helen, it can add up extremely fast. Factor in the 30 points of supply to replace losses, and it keeps growing.

You can credibly argue that dropping 4 250kg bombs per load, the Sally/Helen are the most effective bombers Japan has and perhaps even the most efficient as it requires less bombers to achieve a certain effect.

I am going to test the opposite.

Now, if we use Lilly Ib, Ann, Mary and Sonia the costs per bombing run drop by more than half, but we are still at 30 points of supply to replace losses.

Probably around March of 1942 the Nick is going to arrive. The Nick delivers two 250 kg gp bombs at a supply cost of 1.2 per plane and only 12 points per plane replacement. Plus, they can strafe those units that lack AA. The trick in strafing ground units is to train the pilots on low ground in addition to strafing (and of course avoiding AA). The Oscar IIA might very well join the bombing campaign, but remember this is an Oscar lite game...so we shall see what I do with my very limited number of Oscars.

So my general philosophy approaching Japanese use of bombers is to limit the routine ground combat runs and ASW (to the degree I send Army bombers to do ASW) to Lilly, Ann, Mary, Sonia, and even Ida. Port strike, Airfield Strikes, Strategic Bombing, Search (to the degree I do this with Army bombers), Training will be the purview of the Sally/Helen/Peggy.

Now there will be some deviation from these guidelines, restricted units comes to mind immediately, but expect to see a fair bit of Fighter and Fighter Bomber action in bombing during this game. Sally/Helen will have a much smaller role, but the Peggy will gradually come on to become the staple 2E bomber of the Empire.

Why the Peggy? Range primarily. By the time they arrive, I always want range and China should be concluded.

The PP cost of converting LB to FB will somewhat be offset by a very aggressive policy on withdrawing squadrons early. At this point I am not sure what number of squadrons will make the conversion.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: Aurorus

ORIGINAL: Lowpe




I think I was getting 18-20 torpedo hits prior to daytime recon; with daytime recon it jumped up to 24 but the runway damage and damaged planes jumped 30 percent.

A lot depends how many 800kg bomb drops there are...the best strike saw 3 BB sunk outright and it had the highest amount of 800 kg bomb drops. Almost all strikes result in 0 BB going down.

Playing the Ironman scenarios, I did not use torpedos againt Pearl at all. The flak is just too murderous. In so doing, I discovered that 800 Kg bombs are actually more effective than torpedos at sinking the BBs (and more likely to get magazine explosions). The problem with just setting all bomb attacks in a PBEM is that the damage will be mostly system damage and many of the BBs will still make good speed on the 8th. It will also be hard to sink them with submarines later when they make their move to the West Coast, because they will have less flotation damage.

But for someone who wants to inflict maximum damage with 1 strike, bombs are actually better than torpedos for the Kates. And if you want to sink all 8 against the AI, which anyone can do without much trouble, it is much easier to do it with bombs than torpedos, while the BBs are at Pearl.

I really disagree. Torpedoes are best for quickly sinking ships, particularly armored ones. There's no guarantee that your Kates will fly with 800kg bombs instead of 2x250kg.

Ironman flak may be a special case, but you could try setting the attack altitude of the Kates to maximum to see if that magically avoids the flak. It's possible that torpedo bombers are still fired at when at 200 feet, but torpedo planes appear to teleport from whatever altitude they were at to 200 feet in order to launch.

Have to agree with Lok here, and I have played nasty nasty and the Pearl strike is a step to far, if you want to take the SRA, but the problem with assigning a higher altitude to the Kates is the decreased hit rates for those squadrons that do take bombs over torpedoes which I am not sure how the player can influence.

There does seem to be a magic coordination in the Pearl strike, where flying at different altitudes doesn't seem to cause the strike to splinter however.

[MakeeLearn]

As someone who has only played Allies, stock scenario, I dread Jap torpedo planes more than bombers. They seem to be more accurate, except in bad weather. Torpedoes also seem to have a greater chance to sink a ship, compared to the same number of bombs.

[Xargun]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

The starting IJAAF bomber force. Pretty varied. In PDU on, the temptation is great to standardize on Sally/Helen and perhaps then Peggy.

Let us refresh our memories with some supply calculations:

1. Offensive missions cost maximum load/1000 for bombers
2. Dive and Torpedo bombers are 1 supply per plane per offensive mission

Don't forget it cost supply to 'buy' a torpedo for your air HQ to provide to your torpedo bombers. I don't remember the supply cost to buy the torpedo but there is one.

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
3. Search and Escort and Training are 1/3rd a point of supply per plane
4. 12 points of supply to replace a fighter or fighter bomber
5. 30 points to replace a bomber (sonia or helen same price)
6. 270 PP to convert LB to FB; 75 PP to convert LB to MB.

The big difference will be payload and range. using Nicks like you suggest would be beneficial in some cases, but nothing beats 200 Helens catching an allied unit sitting in the open. I have killed many allied units (complete destruction) in the open using Helens - mostly in Burma and Oz.

Also, depending on how you feel you do not need to fill out your training units - I don't believe there is any loss of training if the pilots sit in a cardboard box as compared to an actual aircraft as long as you are not flying missions.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


There does seem to be a magic coordination in the Pearl strike, where flying at different altitudes doesn't seem to cause the strike to splinter however.

Carriers.