VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA (AXIS) vs M60 (Soviet) (M60 welcome)

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: VigaBrand

How could you move your bomber so far and not used up the miles? Did it changed in the last patches?

have an airbase that you either send to reserver aircraft or transfer to another base that you want to free up all planes from the base. Then move(by rail or normal mp's) that freed up airbase to where you need it. Then transfer planes onto the new base. The transferred planes in will have only ~1%-2% miles flown. (been that way and always could do)

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: Telemecus
Interestingly if this is WitE2 I would not be practising the opening set up but would ask HLYA just to copy his air directives for me so that I could replicate it exactly. I would then spend my time trying to optimise it even further as I need no time just to copy it. So I expect WitE2 will end up with many having exactly the same air openings and an ever increasing super-optimisation by all. And presumably developers nerfing it correspondingly every version.

I think I still have the highest so far over there(posted on the forum that is). I was able to get higher and have learned a great deal. But WITE 2.0 doesn't like the MAC bootcamp Windows version and me testing things take forever since a restart takes a good 2+ minutes on the game . Hard to save/quit try something else to see the results when it takes a bit to do. I may just buy a PC laptop to get around the situation I have with the game so far so I can test things faster. BUT, I absolutely LOVE the game. It is a WET DREAM come true

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

ORIGINAL: VigaBrand
How could you move your bomber so far and not used up the miles? Did it changed in the last patches?

A few rules for how you move airgroups in your game

1. Never leave them in an airbase while moving them overground
2. Never leave them in an airbase while moving them overground!
3. NEVER LEAVE THEM IN AN AIRBASE WHILE MOVING THEM OVERGROUND!!!

Telemecus;

Maybe a number 4 should be added pointing to #1 ;-P

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Now the "lull" begins before things heat up again in a few turns. The storm continues its track east.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

In all my games I have always set the following goals to be accomplished. To be honest it is more of a pipe dream but at least there are goals

[Telemecus]

In older versions it could be done

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

In older versions it could be done

I know it could be done in the old days and probably by someone pretty skilled today. I'm sure Tyronec and yourself could do it today. But I'm just not that skilled to do something like this in your photo especially considering the new supply restrictions and HQ BU's costs in place today along with more skilled opponents.

[Telemecus]

Yes - and that was done when bombers could fly fuel and with any miles flown already! Pretty to look at but not realistic. [:)]

[tyronec]

Here's my prediction for your max expansion in '41, assuming top quality play by both of you.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: tyronec

Here's my prediction for your max expansion in '41, assuming top quality play by both of you.

I believe you are giving me too much credit on where I will get to. But thank you. I will try my hardest to accomplish the blue line at a minimum. But in all honesty I think I have my work cut out for me. M60 is a very good player.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Just received turn 2 back and took a quick look(I always log out of the game if I'm posting since I don't want to accidentally close the game, lol).

All pockets that were created stayed sealed (whew, that is a good thing since I was sweating my ballz off). Plus M60 is being aggressive in the Air this time and bombing my Airbases on the 1st turn. Nicely played ;(..... Anyway I assume I surprised him by turning on Interdiction turn 1. I have rethought my Strat on interdiction and on turn 1 it is a must to turn on for Germany. Why? because it tells a story to you without using recon. And you may be able to squeeze out a movement point or two lost to the Soviets that may be crucial. PLUS! and this is the big one. If you get hit with interdiction you can't keep testing the best spot on where to put a unit. This is what made me rethink interdiction. Even if interdiction is turned down to low numbers just that factor alone is important to me. Finally the Soviets aren't set up to deal with interdiction(normally) on the 1st turn, so for now on that little green light is being turned on for turn 1 for me. No interdiction happened above Vitsbeckin our game, interesting .

****Will deal with the problems with interdiction if that beast raises it head but for now it is turned on with its idiosyncrasies***

[HardLuckYetAgain]

TURN 2 was sent back to M60 last night.

The Rumanians finally get their first unit surrounded on the first turn!!!!! Well in a round about way that is. It isn't surrounded per se but was forced to come to a halt by Rumainian Air Interdiction on the first turn. As can be seen in the 1st photo this division is still close to the Rumanian border. After opening up the battles hexes in the 2nd picture you can see the unit being interdicted twice effectively stopping the unit in its track. Now comes the hard part, getting the Rumanian units to surround the Soviet Division, lol.

Well, 1st turn interdiction for me was a win just for the added Division alone.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

All pockets were cleared 100% except for the Lvov pocket and the Large tank pocket in front of Kiev. I was able to get to the Land Bridge Turn 2 to at least make the Soviets Divisions less effective in digging in. 3 of those hexes at the land bridge are almost level 1 forts. I did one airfield bombing for 80ish aircraft destroyed to zero German.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

From air observation I saw roughly only 2 units that didn't rally for the Soviets in the North. Wish mine were that good when I played the Soviets. Maybe M60 has special Vodka he drops to these men or something . Anyway, M60 was able to get a ZOC into the two hexes circled in yellow with an Armored Division. It was close but no cigar to interrupt the rail conversion since 7 hexes is the max you can obtain and I have 7 converted going North. (Remember you can get 7 hexes converted on certain bends in the track. I'm sure this is going to bring out all the doomsday sayers and alarmist that the game is broken & the Germans are OVERPOWERED along with using gamey tactics . I still love them no matter what. the units to the south were not able to interrupt the progress either. at the moment RAIL full steam ahead!

GAWD DANG it!! I just noticed I forgot to go and finish moving the FBD to convert 2 more hexes of rail. The hex 2 hexes east of the 0-32 HQ could have been converted and the one below it. I forgot to do it since I had to get rid of a unit there but I had to do other things before getting rid of the unit. Dang it, I sux at this game

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Turn 2 loses so far.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Turn 2 Air loses for me on just my turn was 1 Recon. Now combined with M60's Turn 1 bombardment we have the number on this screen. If other games are an indicator of how bad the bombardment gets I am not looking forward to it. I have said the Germans can do things to mitigate this so lets see if it is still the case. Time will tell but the Soviets have an enormous air fleet and nothing like getting slowly killed by a bazillion ants.

For some reason M60 was picking on my Do-17's. Wonder why?

*****some of the extra loses were from air interdiction btw****

[HardLuckYetAgain]

So there has been much talk about the Soviet Airforce being overly powerful at the beginning of the game in more than just a few AAR's recently. Thus in recent games the Soviets have been able to cause some very good sustained numbers with their obsolete LB aircraft in Night bombing runs causing substantial fighter loses to the Germans(to a lesser extent day bombing raids). Starting on Turn 3 of this game I will initiate what I have eluded to in another AAR but difficult to convey to another my sentiments of how to handle the Soviets LB Night raids. Secondly I hope to show what the Germans need to do against CAP sweeps by the Soviets. Will I still take loses? Yes, I will still take loses but not to the extent the other German players did in their respective AARs against the Soviet masses. (will see if this still holds true or everyone else is correct in their assessments. I still feel the Germans can do things to alleviate the loses, we shall see)

The first thing that needs to be done is;

1. Stop flying interceptors at NIGHT. Yes, you heard me correctly. The Germans are the main cause of the exceptionally high fighter losses on their side when they fly night missions. (I do fly night mission and will show what I do after a turn or two after turn 3). But if previous games are a guide when I used this against MAD HATTER Soviet bomber players it makes it expensive for the Soviets and semi bearable to the Germans.
2.
3.
4.
To be continued...... (the other numbers 2-4, and there are more than 4, will be filled in over the turns for other Germans players willing to give it a try). Of course I'm sure there are other players that are better than me that has a better system to combat the Russian Hordes of aircraft. If they do have a way to deal with it feel free to post yours . But until I initiate this on turn 3 and have results for this a turn or two after initiated you will just have to wait for me to fill in the rest of the numbers . (I have posted mine in the past a couple of times & revised it to what it is today) But the primary one is stop flying damn night interception missions with your "BIG" squadrons (thats a hint to #2)

[Mamluke]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

So there has been much talk about the Soviet Airforce being overly powerful at the beginning of the game in more than just a few AAR's recently. Thus in recent games the Soviets have been able to cause some very good sustained numbers with their obsolete LB aircraft in Night bombing runs causing substantial fighter loses to the Germans(to a lesser extent day bombing raids). Starting on Turn 3 of this game I will initiate what I have eluded to in another AAR but difficult to convey to another my sentiments of how to handle the Soviets LB Night raids. Secondly I hope to show what the Germans need to do against CAP sweeps by the Soviets. Will I still take loses? Yes, I will still take loses but not to the extent the other German players did in their respective AARs against the Soviet masses. (will see if this still holds true or everyone else is correct in their assessments. I still feel the Germans can do things to alleviate the loses, we shall see)

The first thing that needs to be done is;

1. Stop flying interceptors at NIGHT. Yes, you heard me correctly. The Germans are the main cause of the exceptionally high fighter losses on their side when they fly night missions. (I do fly night mission and will show what I do after a turn or two after turn 3). But if previous games are a guide when I used this against MAD HATTER Soviet bomber players it makes it expensive for the Soviets and semi bearable to the Germans.
2.
3.
4.
To be continued...... (the other numbers 2-4, and there are more than 4, will be filled in over the turns for other Germans players willing to give it a try). Of course I'm sure there are other players that are better than me that has a better system to combat the Russian Hordes of aircraft. If they do have a way to deal with it feel free to post yours . But until I initiate this on turn 3 and have results for this a turn or two after initiated you will just have to wait for me to fill in the rest of the numbers . (I have posted mine in the past a couple of times & revised it to what it is today) But the primary one is stop flying damn night interception missions with your "BIG" squadrons (thats a hint to #2)

Can't wait for your tutorial HLYA!!

I though you would advice putting all those BF 110 for night missions, I mean as long as they are facing unescorted bombers, they should do a good job right?

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: Mamluke
I though you would advice putting all those BF 110 for night missions, I mean as long as they are facing unescorted bombers, they should do a good job right?

The key point being not in range of, or able to be brought into, Soviet fighter sweeps.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: Mamluke

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

So there has been much talk about the Soviet Airforce being overly powerful at the beginning of the game in more than just a few AAR's recently. Thus in recent games the Soviets have been able to cause some very good sustained numbers with their obsolete LB aircraft in Night bombing runs causing substantial fighter loses to the Germans(to a lesser extent day bombing raids). Starting on Turn 3 of this game I will initiate what I have eluded to in another AAR but difficult to convey to another my sentiments of how to handle the Soviets LB Night raids. Secondly I hope to show what the Germans need to do against CAP sweeps by the Soviets. Will I still take loses? Yes, I will still take loses but not to the extent the other German players did in their respective AARs against the Soviet masses. (will see if this still holds true or everyone else is correct in their assessments. I still feel the Germans can do things to alleviate the loses, we shall see)

The first thing that needs to be done is;

1. Stop flying interceptors at NIGHT. Yes, you heard me correctly. The Germans are the main cause of the exceptionally high fighter losses on their side when they fly night missions. (I do fly night mission and will show what I do after a turn or two after turn 3). But if previous games are a guide when I used this against MAD HATTER Soviet bomber players it makes it expensive for the Soviets and semi bearable to the Germans.
2.
3.
4.
To be continued...... (the other numbers 2-4, and there are more than 4, will be filled in over the turns for other Germans players willing to give it a try). Of course I'm sure there are other players that are better than me that has a better system to combat the Russian Hordes of aircraft. If they do have a way to deal with it feel free to post yours . But until I initiate this on turn 3 and have results for this a turn or two after initiated you will just have to wait for me to fill in the rest of the numbers . (I have posted mine in the past a couple of times & revised it to what it is today) But the primary one is stop flying damn night interception missions with your "BIG" squadrons (thats a hint to #2)

Can't wait for your tutorial HLYA!!

I though you would advice putting all those BF 110 for night missions, I mean as long as they are facing unescorted bombers, they should do a good job right?

Yes, I was the one that gave that advice and yes the BF110 is very efficient at shooting bombers down. I still stand by that advice. BUT what we have to look at are the numbers of interceptors that are being lost to these Soviet night bombers(and to a lesser effect the Soviet day bombers). In effect the Germans are losing too many fighters to the Soviet bombers that are coming in and bombing at night. As a German player you are going to have to control the loss of fighters as best you can. Thus my 1st thing I do is turn off all "night intercept" missions for all fighters. Germans flying night mission with their fighters is hazardous to their health. Now having said that I do fly night missions and those night missions are "By the Schwarms" (Damn, that would be a good book title!!!). So number 2 on my list is set up night mission "By the Schwarms" to do night operations interceptions. I fly (1) Bf110 schwarm and 2-3 BF-109 schwarms in the area of operation. I then rotate groups based on loses, fatigue, etc to keep them fresh. After a few turns of doing this the "Schwarms" will be in the 90+ experience and will become even more effective. Now just doing #1 and #2 isn't going to get you there. There are more parts to the story like, AA, AA placement (Yes, I figured this one out too of when they add to a battle. I'm sure others already knew), how many squadrons on an airbase, air settings etc etc to form a whole package.

Now I'm going to deviate for a minute here and say that Tyronec is correct that the Soviet bombers are doing too much damage. I set up a test bed and tested this out with over 50+ simulations over two days using mass bombers of the Soviets and the Germans. In this scenario the Soviets are bombing at night & the Germans by day. The Soviets night missions consisted of ~250-280 aircraft would destroy almost on par what ~390-450 German bombers would do during the day. Now the Germans delta variation was higher on occasions but the sheer numbers of Soviet aircraft the Soviets could fly and do damage far surpasses the Germans. Please note that "only" bombers were flown in an attempt to garner a base. I found this very interesting since to me the Germans and Soviets seem to be using the same "TO HIT" chart and "DAMAGE" chart for night/day. But this is all speculation on my part but the Soviets do seem to be pretty effective with LESS aircraft and EVEN AT NIGHT. I find this interesting. I will continue to test and I could just be doing my tests wrong. (only LB's were used in these test. But I do have the delta's for the Dive bombers and working out how many fighters to escort the Dive bombers to target and not lose aircraft now . actually just confirming my numbers again in current patch