PAW 1941-45 larryfulkerson (Axis) vs warspite1 (Allies)

[Szilard]

Thoughts for what they're worth. Mainly, it's not very historical so pretty much forget history.

IMO the number one priority is to hold on to Hawaii. On a quick look, just about all US land reinforcements spawn there so if you lose the islands, I don't see how you can't lose. (Didn't check air and sea - maybe the same?)

When you go on the offensive, go Plan Orange. Thrust through the Central Pacific, to the Marianas and the Philippines. You don't get a sub war and as far as I can see bombing "strategic" units in Japan is the biggest lever you have in reducing Japanese production & supply. Presumably you'll be able to do the same kind of logistics-defying moves then, that he can do now.

I don't see why keeping the Australian life-line open should be a major focus in this scenario. In real life, Oz and NZ were the major source of food & other stuff for all the Pacific forces (making Oz a net reverse lend lease donor) but that doesn't factor in here. Politically letting Oz go would have been a disaster, but ditto. And why would you need it as an offensive, when the central pacific thrust will be easier (I think?) than real life, particularly as all ports & all airfields are equal (right?).

The prime value of Oz and the SWP I guess might be as a region to fight the attrition battle away from yr main thrust; tie up Japanese forces which might be hard to re-position; and bring the (too strong) Oz land units into play. But letting him invade Australia might accomplish those goals pretty well. The Oz spawn points seem to be in & near Melbourne; and I don't think there's any impact on Oz supply or replacement impact from being cut off from the US.

You'll probably have to retake the NEI in order to win but (I think) this might be best done as a stage 2 after Orange retakes the Philippines.

Anyway, all good fun.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Szilard

Thoughts for what they're worth. Mainly, it's not very historical so pretty much forget history.

IMO the number one priority is to hold on to Hawaii. On a quick look, just about all US land reinforcements spawn there so if you lose the islands, I don't see how you can't lose. (Didn't check air and sea - maybe the same?)

When you go on the offensive, go Plan Orange. Thrust through the Central Pacific, to the Marianas and the Philippines. You don't get a sub war and as far as I can see bombing "strategic" units in Japan is the biggest lever you have in reducing Japanese production & supply. Presumably you'll be able to do the same kind of logistics-defying moves then, that he can do now.

I don't see why keeping the Australian life-line open should be a major focus in this scenario. In real life, Oz and NZ were the major source of food & other stuff for all the Pacific forces (making Oz a net reverse lend lease donor) but that doesn't factor in here. Politically letting Oz go would have been a disaster, but ditto. And why would you need it as an offensive, when the central pacific thrust will be easier (I think?) than real life, particularly as all ports & all airfields are equal (right?).

The prime value of Oz and the SWP I guess might be as a region to fight the attrition battle away from yr main thrust; tie up Japanese forces which might be hard to re-position; and bring the (too strong) Oz land units into play. But letting him invade Australia might accomplish those goals pretty well. The Oz spawn points seem to be in & near Melbourne; and I don't think there's any impact on Oz supply or replacement impact from being cut off from the US.

You'll probably have to retake the NEI in order to win but (I think) this might be best done as a stage 2 after Orange retakes the Philippines.

Anyway, all good fun.

warspite1

Indeed - I guess I'll have to bite the bullet at some point and try once again to get into WITP-AE if I want something approaching historical - but I just don't feel the fun factor with that game.

So I guess I will have to accept this, warts and all, in the meantime. I will try and hold onto Australia as long as I can because to not try just seems too gamey and would really de-value the gaming experience. However given what I have seen so far - and the total paucity of units vs Japanese overcompensation - I think this is something of a forlorn hope. But if India or Hawaii is taken though then I will probably concede because frankly I might as well be playing Westeros vs Essos if either of these are possible (unless of course in doing so such a huge effort has to be made that the Japanese are in major problems elsewhere).

[larryfulkerson]

Hey Rob:
You're probably feeling overwhelmed right now and it probably feels non-fun.
I've got an idea....let's restart with you as the Japs. You'll feel a lot
better. They have the edge for the first 18 months or so and then it starts
feeling "fair" . I'm flexible....we can switch sides if you'd like. We would
have to go back to sending files back and forth but we can do it. I was thinking
a restart with you as Japs might be easier for everybody long term.

Just trying to make it fun again for you.

friends,
larry

ps have a wonderful day

I'm sending this from the bottom of page one.

[warspite1]

I've responded to this by PM as Larry can't read this but to be clear here is my response:

Hi Larry

Start over? No way!

I am having great fun. Yes its tough being the Allies at the start but that's the deal right?

My only gripe is that I thought - and hoped - that this scenario would be more real to life (that's my mistake) - but it isn't so that's fine - it is what it is.

But there is no way I'm going to quit!

Rgds

Rob

[warspite1]

Turn 4
28th December 1941

Battle 6: There was a major air battle over Jakarta The Akagi and Zuiho air groups shoot down 24 Allied aircraft (8 lost) and suffer 22 losses themselves (4 lost). This was a good result and confirms part of the 1st Air Fleet are in the NEI.

Battles 9 + 10: There are then two separate engagements of southwestern Borneo. In the first 4 Japanese destroyers are sunk by the Allied force, while in the second, it looks like land based bombers attack the Allied vessels without any joy - and lose a bomber themselves.

[warspite1]

Turn 4
28th December 1941

Battle 2: A 4-strong Japanese destroyer squadron destroys 2 Australian sub-chasers and receive light damage in return

Battle 3: Another 4-strong Japanese destroyer sails down the west coast of Australia and then along the south coast and destroyers 5 USN destroyers.

Battle 7: Land based aircraft attack an Australian army unit defending the northeast coast. Just two PBY were lost - 0 destroyed - but the Japanese lost 9 aircraft - 1 destroyed

Battle 8: Another attack by land-based bombers is equally as disappointing for the Japanese

Battle 20: 2 French civil defence units are destroyed in attack by Japanese land forces on New Caledonia.

Battle 27: 2 Allied subchasers are lost to air attack.

[warspite1]

Turn 4
28th December 1941

As predicted last turn the heavy losses for the Chinese returns.... Quite clearly unsustainable.

[warspite1]

Turn 4
28th December 1941

The large air battles have been undertaken by a mix of carrier borne and land based aircraft. The former include the Zuikaku air group.....

[warspite1]

Turn 4
28th December 1941

If my Pacific Fleet can reach, I intend to attack the Japanese at Johnston Island. I know that at least two 1st Air Fleet air groups are in the NEI - Zuikaku and Akagi, as well as a number of light carriers. That potentially leaves 4 fleet carriers of the Kido Butai on the loose but I also have land based air at Pearl to even things up a bit.

[warspite1]

Turn 4
28th December 1941

So I think its time to take a closer look at the US forces in Hawaii and at my disposal.

ARMY

4th Army
43rd Engineer Regt.

It looks like I have 3 fully formed infantry divisions

24th Infantry Division
25th Infantry Division
41st Infantry Division
Each with 3 infantry regiments, an artillery regiment, anti-aircraft regiment, a reconnaissance troop and an engineer battalion

and a 4th that is partially complete - remaining units should have arrived on turn 2
27th Infantry Division

Elements of other Divisions
200th AAA Group

Allied Forces 10.2
93rd Engineer Regt.

Southwest Pacific 1.1 - HQ in Philippines
46th Engineer Regt.
1st CB Engineer Regt.
2nd CB Rngineer Regt.

NAVY

CLAA: Atlanta
DD Division 41: 2 x Destroyers

Allied Forces Central Pacific 1.1
1st Flt Air Wing
2nd Flt Air Wing

Allied Forces Central Pacific 1.3
Cruiser Rec 1-10

US ARMY AIR FORCE

5th Air Force
35th Fighter Group

7th Air Force
15th Fighter Group
18th Fighter Group

5th Bomber Command
27th Bomber Group

10th Air Force
7th Bomb Group

11th Air Force
14th Fighter Group
54th Fighter Group

13th Air Force
5th Bomber Group

MARINES

1st Amphibious Corps HQ
2nd Marine Defence Bn.
3rd Marine Defence Bn.
4th Marine Defence Bn.
1st Marine Engineer Regt.

2nd Amphibious Corps HQ
2nd Marine Engineer Regt.

MARINE AIR FORCE

1st Marine Air Wing
VMF-211
MAG 11

2nd Marine Air Wing
MAG 21

Note: Szilard mentioned the placement of Canberra was wrong - I think the Hawaiian Islands are a bit of a mess. There appears to be one major island missing and Kauai is in the wrong place.

[warspite1]

Turn 4
28th December 1941

Subject to range, there are a number of potential targets that have presented themselves - unfortunately I don't know where all of Larry's 1st Air Fleet units are (only 2 spotted for definite) and so he could be laying on a trap..... However, I feel I should do something as the Aleutians are already Japanese owned (I never realised....) and so units can simply land as normal.

[warspite1]

Turn 4
28th December 1941

I'd probably be feeling a lot more confident if I'd ever one a naval battle before. But I haven't so I've no idea what tactics to employ or whatever. I think I am going to try and go for as much as I can, but the priority is Johnston Island as that is a stepping stone to Hawaii.

So what do I have to play with?

San Diego
Task Force 3
CV: Lexington + Yorktown
Fighters: 70 + 70 Wildcats
Dive Bombers: 65 + 65 Dauntless
Torpedo Bombers: 65 + 65 Devastator
Escorts to be decided as the turn develops

San Francisco

Anchorage
Task Force 1
CV: Enterprise
Fighters: 60 Wildcats
Dive Bombers: 54 Dauntless
Torpedo Bombers: 65 Devastator
CA: Salt Lake City + Indianapolis

[Szilard]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Turn 4
28th December 1941

I'd probably be feeling a lot more confident if I'd ever one a naval battle before. But I haven't so I've no idea what tactics to employ or whatever. I think I am going to try and go for as much as I can, but the priority is Johnston Island as that is a stepping stone to Hawaii.

Lay alongside, 3 rounds quickly & board 'em in the smoke?

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Szilard

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Turn 4
28th December 1941

I'd probably be feeling a lot more confident if I'd ever one a naval battle before. But I haven't so I've no idea what tactics to employ or whatever. I think I am going to try and go for as much as I can, but the priority is Johnston Island as that is a stepping stone to Hawaii.

Lay alongside, 3 rounds quickly & board 'em in the smoke?

warspite1

'Engage the enemy more closely' as a wise man once said [:)]

[Zorch]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Szilard

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Turn 4
28th December 1941

I'd probably be feeling a lot more confident if I'd ever one a naval battle before. But I haven't so I've no idea what tactics to employ or whatever. I think I am going to try and go for as much as I can, but the priority is Johnston Island as that is a stepping stone to Hawaii.

Lay alongside, 3 rounds quickly & board 'em in the smoke?

warspite1

'Engage the enemy more closely' as a wise man once said [:)]

"There is something wrong with our bloody ships today", said by a (much) less wise man.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Zorch

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Szilard




Lay alongside, 3 rounds quickly & board 'em in the smoke?

warspite1

'Engage the enemy more closely' as a wise man once said [:)]

"There is something wrong with our bloody ships today", said by a total over-promoted numpty, unfit to command a rowing boat.

warspite1

Fixed that for you.

[Szilard]

"Subject to range ..."

In this scenario, it appears that ships cruise at their maximum speed. So a ship with a top speed of 33 kt can travel 5500 nm in a week ...

[Zorch]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Zorch

ORIGINAL: warspite1


warspite1

'Engage the enemy more closely' as a wise man once said [:)]

"There is something wrong with our bloody ships today", said by a total over-promoted numpty, unfit to command a rowing boat.

warspite1

Fixed that for you.

Thank you. And who refused to sack his incompetent signals officer.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Zorch

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Zorch



"There is something wrong with our bloody ships today", said by a total over-promoted numpty, unfit to command a rowing boat.

warspite1

Fixed that for you.

Thank you. And who refused to sack his incompetent signals officer.

waspite1

That would be the self same over-promoted numpty unfit to command a rowing boat....

[warspite1]

Turn 4
28th December 1941

So apologies if this is all a little tedious, but I am going to go through this step by step and give my thought process as the turn develops for better or worse. I apologise in advance or any numptiness as this is my first attempt at this type of battle in this game.

1. I order the 15th Fighter Group to Johnston Island. If the 1st Air Fleet is around this will give some fighter support to my naval units that I intend to send to the area
2. I put the carriers Lexington and Yorktown into task forces and will be sending them west shortly.
3. I order Squadron 5 subchaser unit to the Aleutians to switch possession of the three islands back to the US.
4. I order two destroyers divisions - the 10th and the 50th - to join Task Force 1 off Alaska.
5. At Dutch Harbor, 3 battalions of the 37th Infantry Regiment board ship ready to reinforce the three Aleutian islands if I can get rid of the Japanese cruiser/destroyer task force off Atka.
6. I'm not sure what these units are for (as reconnaissance does not seem to be a feature of the game) but I send a recce squadrons to each of those islands - bit of a risk as the infantry may not land, but I can't see what good they are doing with all 10 stuck in Hawaii.