CSV Ian is NLF and larry is Allied

[larryfulkerson]

I gogolled 12th TFW, 558 TFS and it was a squadron that flew from McDill AFB, Florida to Cam Ranh Bay, RSN in 1965 and was based there until sometime in 1970 when it moved to Phu Cat. I like to put the planes where they were during the war. I'll do that for the rest of them too.

[larryfulkerson]

I gogolled 12th TFW, 559th TFS and it was based at Cam Ranh Bay, RSN in 1965.

[larryfulkerson]

I gogolled 37th TFW, 612th TFS and it was based at Phu Cat, RSN.

[larryfulkerson]

I moved what I think is everybody and pulled the trigger and only killed one VC unit. And some of those attacks were expensive in terms of numbers of aircraft. I think maybe the number of planes getting shot down might be inflated somewhat. Maybe a bug in the scenario?

[devoncop]

Turn 10

Interesting developments in Quang Tri Province by the DMZ in the north. After last turn's actions in capturing Khe Sanh airbase and Con Thien I had garrisoned Con Thien but abandoned Khe Sanh as the 312th NVA Div battalion that had captured it was too exposed.

Sure enough, despite most of the ARVN 1st Div and their US Marine protectors pulling back further south in Quang Tri to around Dong Ha the US Ist marine Division Tank battalion with air support counter attacked at Con Thien. The NVA garrision from 308th Division with substantial 75mm AT capability was able to take out 9 M48@s and 2 M67's for the loss of 11 rifle squads and the attack was stopped and the town briefly held before the 308th were ordered to withdraw back across the DMZ under cover of darkness....

At Khe Sanh locals stated it had been reoccupied by a battlion from 1st ARVN Division and this was shelled before a battalion of 312th Division overran the airbase again and again totally destroyed its defenders...

There was less success further south where an attempt to infiltrate central South Vietnam from Cambodia by 33rd NVA Regiment was halted by the ARVN 25th Division in jungle fighting just across the border.

VP's remain steady at +4 for the US.

The air losses from multiple air actions by the US continue to mount with 27 planes and 18 helicopters lost. NVA units that were attacked in the north do have decent AA capability but other than that it appears some are being downed by Medium MG's

[larryfulkerson]

The air losses from multiple air actions by the US continue to mount with 27 planes and 18 helicopters lost. NVA units that were attacked in the north do have decent AA capability but other than that it appears some are being downed by Medium MG's

I've been observing the losses of aircraft and I'm thinking it's way higher than the actual losses incurred during the war and I'm beginning to question the "bloodiness" of the combats. It's difficult to believe that the aircraft losses would be so high during the actual conflict. I'm using one-dot attacks for the aircraft yet they are still falling out of the skies. Something feels wrong. let's keep going.

[larryfulkerson]

It seems that the A-6 Intruder has a tiny problem. I'm out of them and I won't get any more for a while yet. I've flown them to Guam and put them on rest status so that they won't fly. I can't risk losing another unit to ground fire. I'll leave them on Guam on rest for a while to let them refit.

[devoncop]

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson


I've been observing the losses of aircraft and I'm thinking it's way higher than the actual losses incurred during the war and I'm beginning to question the "bloodiness" of the combats. It's difficult to believe that the aircraft losses would be so high during the actual conflict. I'm using one-dot attacks for the aircraft yet they are still falling out of the skies. Something feels wrong. let's keep going.

It seems total losses of aircraft plus helicopters in the 1965-75 period was around 10,000 for the US plus another 2500 for the ARVN.....Over 520 weeks averaged out that would be about 21 per week (though less in monsoon periods and more out of monsoons)

How does that compare 10 weeks in ?

Total losses should be about 210 planes and helicopters to match historical levels ?

[devoncop]

Turn 11

A truncated turn from the US/ARVN thanks to a failed proficiency check on Larry gives the VC some respite and allows more consolidation in Quang Tri Province in the north and for now Khe Sanh remains in NVA hands. A reasonable % of Quang Tri is now under NVA influence and reinforcements to the NVA continue to trickle south.

The US ARVN airstrikes that did take place caused further air losses but little damage to the NVA/VC forces on the ground.

The US appears to be building up forces for an offensive in the north however and it is noticeable artillery assets are still heading to the front.

[larryfulkerson]

Hey you guys, it's only 08:40 on Monday morning and I'm already backed up. I was working on Overlord when two CSV's showed up almost simultaneously. I'm working them first come first served today and I'm hoping everybody can see how fair that might turn out to be in the long run. Plus I'm going to take an hour for lunch with my mom and my sister Jeri, who live in the same trailer park that I do. Jeri just happens to be an OR nurse who's watching our mom for us. She knows what a stroke looks like and I don't, etc. Plus, since she lives alone, I call her every day at 17:00 just to make sure she's not laying on the kitchen floor and can't get up or something. And if I forget, again, to call her at 17:00 the procedure is for her to call me at 17:30 to see what's wrong. It's been working so far.

[larryfulkerson]

The aircraft losses seem sort of high to me. The Skyraiders have suffered the most losses at 20 and the F-100's are next at 10 with other models suffering a handful.

Which reminds me of a story to tell you. I was working on the flight line one afternoon when one of our Dragonfly's came home early. It seems that he was making passes at his target when all of a sudden he heard a loud slam and a hole appeared in his canopy where the co-pilot would have sat if he had a co-pilot. He came home to be safe, don't want to lose a plane or a pilot when you don't have to. When it got back to Bien Hoa and taxied to it's parking spot we saw what had happened. A large calibur bullet, probably a .50 cal, entered the fuselage from the bottom, traveled through the co-pilots seat then exited through the canopy. If it had hit the pilot it would have killed him.

[larryfulkerson]

On the left side of the image is a small group of NVA units and it was all empty of units to begin with so I flew the 1st Regiment of the 1st Marine Division over to LZ Normandy and tried to land there but there just happened to be an NVA arty unit in that hex so the regiment teleported back to where it originated and lost all it's MP's. They aborted their mission. I've got other Marine regiments that I can use to see if I can get them to move back to NVN. I'm wondering whether to leave them alone or what. I think some airstrikes might be in order.

[devoncop]

Turn 12

Evidently Larry now has some serious artillery assets in Quang Tri as the NVA long range artillery park takes a beating with over 50% losses but then I am fortunate as the US fails its proficiency check after a single unsuccessful air attack on a VC battalion in the interior.

Any satisfaction I feel at this development is tempered by the need to get the artillery out of the area of operations for now and worries over what appears to be an imminent Marine counter attack against the three NVA Divisions now in control of most of Quang Tri and closing on Thua Thien province to the south east. No sooner have I started thinking about this, and how to defend against such an attack than the NVA fail a check and many VC and NVA troops are left exposed.....

The next turn could be bloody........

VP's were static at plus 5 for the US at the end of turn 11 but to push on I need a serious increase in VC assets available.

[larryfulkerson]

Okie dokie it's T12 already and that means November of 1965 and the start of LBJ's second year in office. He and the Sec. of State Dean Rusk collude with the South Vietnamese Army Officers for a coup to depose what's his face and replace him with another nobody. But this time the replacement is a Catholic and the general population are not so this isn't going to work either. The CIA is clueless about who they need in office. None of the options are good ones.

The news strings tell the story: the VC are active in the south and the NVA is active in the north and things are heating up a bit.

[larryfulkerson]

I had selected this one Cobra unit and was looking around for a place to put it to be in the middle of the action and I just happened to see the mouse cursor turn into a crosshair thing that means you've found a target there young man, check it out. So even though there's only two aircraft in the entire unit I'm going to see how it fare's because I need to know if I can send just two in the future because I hope to use them again later this turn.

[larryfulkerson]

I'm giving all the aircraft a mission even if it's just rest and I've come to a unit that has but two Dragonfly's and it looks like we're not going to get any for a while so I flew it to Guam just to get it out of the way. I may need to move them again when the B-52's are needed. I think the EEV is up to +27 but I'm not sure.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's how the pacification is going in the south right now. I've almost got the core cleared out. That way the VC units will tend to show up sooner. I just have to remember to keep up the effort to kill them when they appear. I mean kill them in that turn, because they can disband and disappear.

[larryfulkerson]

There's an ongoing effort to clear out the Saigon area and get the roads running again. There's been a half a dozen dropped bridges and road cuts where the enemy has laid down a line of enemy hexes across one of my roads and I have to go convert it back, etc. Not too many enemy units sighted. Several enemy units from last turn disbanded rather than feel the rath again this turn.

[devoncop]

Turn 13

last turn was indeed a turn of heavy fighting in Quang Tri as US Marin artillery and ground forces hit NVA positions around Khe Sanh. Losses were heavy on both sides however with the US Marine Tanks losing 14 M48's and 6 M50's whilst a 308th NVA regiment lost 40 of its 150 Infantry squads in the same encounter.

Counter battery fire took out a Marine Division artillery unit in my turn with all of its 150mm destroyed and damaged badly another.

Down in Binh Duong by the Cambodian border an ARVN offensive in the jungle against 33rd NVA regiment caused 34 infantry squads to be lost but in reply the ARVN lost 91 plus 10 Skyraiders and a Skyhawk.

I preefer to fight the ARVN [:)]

In positive news after all the casualties and another airstrike on north vietnam the VP total reduces by 2 for the Americans from 5 to 3 and also some more NVA units should shortly become available from the Ho Chi Minh trail...

[larryfulkerson]

I've received some moves from Ian and it seems that I'm being accused of bombing NVN and I don't remember doing that myself so it MAY have been one of my INT aircraft. I'll have to review the battles to see what really happened. If there's a record of it, at all.